Is Connor Mcdavid a "tier above" Sidney Crosby as a player?

[bambamcam4ever]

Which verifiable fact did I list that you believe is false? Lmao

The only facts you presented were voting results, and there is a massive gap in logic where you assume Selke votes= defensive ability. I took issue with your conclusion, Crosby has been a good defensive player, especially in the playoffs, since his 3rd or 4th season. McDavid has poor fundamentals defensively and often chases the puck carrier.

 

[Kerberos]

There's no conceivable argument to make that shows Crosby was a better player than McDavid in any regard.

Regular season, playoffs, you name it... McDavid's production absolutely obliterates Crosby's. Whether that puts him a tier above is debatable... but it is a debate because McDavid is just that good.

 

[KevinRedkey]

The only facts you presented were voting results, and there is a massive gap in logic where you assume Selke votes= defensive ability. I took issue with your conclusion, Crosby has been a good defensive player, especially in the playoffs, since his 3rd or 4th season. McDavid has poor fundamentals defensively and often chases the puck carrier.

Ahh so you took issue with facts not lining up with your personal opinion.

Got it. Lol

 

[thaman8765678]

There's no conceivable argument to make that shows Crosby was a better player than McDavid in any regard.

Regular season, playoffs, you name it... McDavid's production absolutely obliterates Crosby's. Whether that puts him a tier above is debatable... but it is a debate because McDavid is just that good.

I'd take 3 Stanley Cups over none. I don't know how you can argue that McDavid is better.

The only thing he's better at is getting 4 point games and still being -1 on the night.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

I'd take 3 Stanley Cups over none. I don't know how you can argue that McDavid is better.

The only thing he's better at is getting 4 point games and still being -1 on the night.

So Henri Richard is better than Crosby Mcdavid and Gretzky good to know , Sidney crosby would be ranked and tied at 120th best player to ever play the game under your criteria!

 

[Cursed Lemon]

The next "tier" these guys would be in is literally the Big 4.

So no, they are not on different tiers.

 

[KlefDown]

The only facts you presented were voting results, and there is a massive gap in logic where you assume Selke votes= defensive ability. I took issue with your conclusion, Crosby has been a good defensive player, especially in the playoffs, since his 3rd or 4th season. McDavid has poor fundamentals defensively and often chases the puck carrier.

hahahahah this is diabolical work

crosby got clowned on for being a worthless crybaby who was trash defensively all the way from his 3rd season to till he won his 3rd cup because guys like Toews/Kopitar/Bergeron all had more cups and were better two way players.

saying the other guy who stated literal facts was lying vs your horrible take is something...

 

[Video Nasty]

The next "tier" these guys would be in is literally the Big 4.

So no, they are not on different tiers.

Or McDavid is currently in a tier of his own that is above the other eight or so players who had a case for #5, which includes Crosby probably at the very front of that list, before McDavid surpassed them, and such a tier will exist until he completes whatever else remains of his career and remolding the Big Four into a legitimate Big Five.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

hahahahah this is diabolical work

crosby got clowned on for being a worthless crybaby who was trash defensively all the way from his 3rd season to till he won his 3rd cup because guys like Toews/Kopitar/Bergeron all had more cups and were better two way players.

saying the other guy who stated literal facts was lying vs your horrible take is something...

There are articles from his rookie year praising his defense. Stop lying dude, just because your boy never learned how to play defense doesn't mean it's true for all talented forwards. And Bergeron had more cups? Seems like your memory is not quite trustworthy.

 

[GreatGonzo]

There are articles from his rookie year praising his defense. Stop lying dude, just because your boy never learned how to play defense doesn't mean it's true for all talented forwards. And Bergeron had more cups? Seems like your memory is not quite trustworthy.

Just stop. The second an offensive superstar shows ANY sort of defensive game or responsibilities, it’s overblown. Crosby wasnt and has never been a stud defensively, and using “defense” to say Crosby>McDavid is a desperate and lazy attempt to argue.

Might as well say Toews>McDavid, why? 3 cups and “leadership.” Can it be measured? Can it be proven? Nope, it’s the typical “because I say so.”

 

[KlefDown]

There are articles from his rookie year praising his defense. Stop lying dude, just because your boy never learned how to play defense doesn't mean it's true for all talented forwards. And Bergeron had more cups? Seems like your memory is not quite trustworthy.

"articles" lmaoo ok

this isn't even about mcdavid, I have no opinion or insecurity on who is better. I love and cheered for both my whole life so I am blessed either way. you're just straight up the lying

learn to read, until Crosby won his third people would Kopi/Toews/Bergeron were superior up until 2015/16. which is crazy considering I've been defending Crosby his whole career with the same slander McDavid is facing now

 

[sensfan4lifee]

I don't know that you can put anybody other than Gretzky/Lemieux/Orr in a tier above Crosby. McDavid is the "otherworldly" scorer, but Crosby battled a lot of injuries and played through some down-scoring years. I'd buy the argument that McDavid is the better player of the two, he's certainly got the technical skills, but Crosby's greatest weapon was always that he had the unstoppable drive train. Not only would he beat you with skill, he would also outwork your entire team. The sort of player that you just never, never, bet against.

"Winning" is a tough intangible to discuss, it often gets parsed out into other factors like leadership, but with Sid it's more about guts and the willingness to go through a wall to win a puck battle six minutes into the second period of game 47 on the schedule. Ultimately, Crosby has just always had the "it" factor for winning, which McDavid just hasn't shown yet. Crosby has generally played on better teams than McDavid's Oilers, but those last two Pens cup wins had weak defensive groups and an unproven Murray in net, which isn't dissimilar to this year's Oilers. Crosby lost his first finals to the Red Wings, so whether McDavid can follow that trajectory and win some in the coming years will remain to be seen.

If McDavid can bring that team success, show that winning "it" factor that the all-time greats have, then he'll be considered in a tier above Crosby, and put himself into conversations with the pantheon. He is the more offensively gifted and technically proficient player after all. But for now, Crosby's peak and impact as a player is enough that I'll call them the same tier. Good luck to McDavid, Crosby is a worthwhile gatekeeper.

It's funny, the more that time goes on the more I realize I'm a full-on Crosby stan.

Winning in hockey is a team effort should Mcdavid be punished because Crosby had better support around him? Mcdavid proved this off post season he can be the engine and carry a team to the finals and I'd argue his performance this year trumps anything Crosby has done in the play offs. I still how ever think if Crosby was in his prime this year he easily puts up 130 points, but I still think going head to head with Mcdavid both in there prime Mcdavid comes out ontop offensively. And I disagree with Crosby having the "IT" factor with winning, I'd argue that if you put Mcdavid on those Pens teams and Crosby on the Oilers the Pens are still winning 3 cups. Its about support, and the Pens just had better depth the years they won than the Oilers have.

 

[I am Bettman]

Crosby is not close to Mcdavid. He has never been great defensively, that was just a narrative to make up for his offensive decline.

 

[I am not exposed]

You know people voting for Crosby are getting desperate when they are bringing in intangibles, leadership, and cup count

 

[Cursed Lemon]

Or McDavid is currently in a tier of his own that is above the other eight or so players who had a case for #5, which includes Crosby probably at the very front of that list, before McDavid surpassed them, and such a tier will exist until he completes whatever else remains of his career and remolding the Big Four into a legitimate Big Five.

Sidney Crosby's PPG finishes: 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 3, 3, 5, 6

McDavid's PPG finishes: 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 6

They're almost exactly the same in the regular season thus far. If McDavid pulls a few more first place finishes in this category then he will fill out this new tier you're talking about.

 

[Haatley]

McDavid does things Crosby could never do.

Crosby does things McDavid never does. Play defence. Win championships.

 

[Cursed Lemon]

What people ought to be looking at is the fact that Connor McDavid not only broke a Gretzky record in the playoffs but also did twice what Crosby has never done - actually lead the playoffs in scoring.

 

[Video Nasty]

Sidney Crosby's PPG finishes: 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 3, 3, 5, 6

McDavid's PPG finishes: 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 6

They're almost exactly the same in the regular season thus far. If McDavid pulls a few more first place finishes in this category then he will fill out this new tier you're talking about.

Your tallies are wrong.

McDavid has PPG finishes of 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 3. All done consecutively. 9 seasons in the books and he has been top 2 for the last 8 seasons.

He also has raw point finishes of 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 3. Outright.

Crosby has PPG finishes of 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 3, 3, 3, 4, 5.

3 of his 6 top PPG finishes came during a 3 year stretch where he only played 99 out of a possible 212 games. Two of his top 3 finishes see him tied with another player. He has a lone 5th place finish past the age of 29 and has been a complete non-factor on any scoring race since.

He has raw point finishes of 1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 3, 3, 3. He was tied with another player for one each of his second and third place finishes.

It took Crosby’s first 12 seasons to collect 10 top 3 PPG finishes and 8 top 3 raw point finishes (again 2 of them being tied with another). He had 4 top 2 finishes and 2 wins.

McDavid is 9 for 9 with top 3 PPG finishes and has already matched the 8 top 3 raw point finishes with 7 of them being top 2 and 5 of them being wins. Outright.

Nothing close about this comparison and the chasm will only widen because there’s no sign McDavid will stop competing for Art Rosses any time soon. We can mew about Crosby missing some raw wins during that time period, but this is balanced out by the fact that McDavid doesn’t have his next 3 seasons factored in yet.

 

[Ninety7]

Mcdavid easily

Smooth brains don’t understand that hockey is a team sport

Let me know when Crosby had to ever drag Darnell Nurse to game 7 of a final

 

[Offtheboard412]

I don't think he's a tier above in terms of actual one ice talent. But it certainly looks like he will probably be a tier above him for actual individual accomplishments. Crosby just couldn't manage to stay on the ice consistently enough in the first half of his career to rack up the scoring titles and dominant seasons the way McDavid has.

 

[norrisnick]

Just stop. The second an offensive superstar shows ANY sort of defensive game or responsibilities, it’s overblown. Crosby wasnt and has never been a stud defensively, and using “defense” to say Crosby>McDavid is a desperate and lazy attempt to argue.

Might as well say Toews>McDavid, why? 3 cups and “leadership.” Can it be measured? Can it be proven? Nope, it’s the typical “because I say so.”

Just hit them with the Ovechkin got Selke votes 2 years before Crosby first did.

 

[BraveCanadian]

Yes, McDavid is a step up imo

 

[Cursed Lemon]

Your tallies are wrong.

McDavid has PPG finishes of 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 3. All done consecutively. 9 seasons in the books and he has been top 2 for the last 8 seasons.

He also has raw point finishes of 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 3. Outright.

Crosby has PPG finishes of 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 3, 3, 3, 4, 5.

3 of his 6 top PPG finishes came during a 3 year stretch where he only played 99 out of a possible 212 games. Two of his top 3 finishes see him tied with another player. He has a lone 5th place finish past the age of 29 and has been a complete non-factor on any scoring race since.

He has raw point finishes of 1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 3, 3, 3. He was tied with another player for one each of his second and third place finishes.

It took Crosby’s first 12 seasons to collect 10 top 3 PPG finishes and 8 top 3 raw point finishes (again 2 of them being tied with another). He had 4 top 2 finishes and 2 wins.

McDavid is 9 for 9 with top 3 PPG finishes and has already matched the 8 top 3 raw point finishes with 7 of them being top 2 and 5 of them being wins. Outright.

Nothing close about this comparison and the chasm will only widen because there’s no sign McDavid will stop competing for Art Rosses any time soon. We can mew about Crosby missing some raw wins during that time period, but this is balanced out by the fact that McDavid doesn’t have his next 3 seasons factored in yet.

McDavid does not have a 3rd-place PPG finish so I don't know where you're getting that from, his 6th place is from his rookie year. I'm counting at least half the season played, that means Crosby's 2011 season just squeaks in and his 2012 season is out.

We're not proactively giving McDavid finishes he hasn't gotten yet. Right now, their career value is essentially the same with Crosby getting dinged for injuries.

 

[Regal]

McDavid does not have a 3rd-place PPG finish so I don't know where you're getting that from, his 6th place is from his rookie year. I'm counting at least half the season played, that means Crosby's 2011 season just squeaks in and his 2012 season is out.

We're not proactively giving McDavid finishes he hasn't gotten yet. Right now, their career value is essentially the same with Crosby getting dinged for injuries.

McDavid was 3rd in PPG as a rookie.

 

[sensfan4lifee]

Sidney Crosby's PPG finishes: 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 3, 3, 5, 6

McDavid's PPG finishes: 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 6

They're almost exactly the same in the regular season thus far. If McDavid pulls a few more first place finishes in this category then he will fill out this new tier you're talking about.

you c ant use ppg finishes when one guy hasnt even played a decade and the other guy is on what 18 years?

I'd take 3 Stanley Cups over none. I don't know how you can argue that McDavid is better.

The only thing he's better at is getting 4 point games and still being -1 on the night.

Winning a cup is a team accomplishment this thread is based on Individual talent