Is Connor Mcdavid a "tier above" Sidney Crosby as a player?

[Lebowski]

I'm too lazy to do the math, but I'd be curious to see the extent of McDavid's PPG domination in terms of standard deviations over his prime. At a glance, I don't think he'd be that far ahead of Crosby.

Be that as it may, I'll give the nod to McDavid considering he has been healthy for his prime and has more than met expectations. We'll never know just how dominant Crosby would have been over a full season at his peak.

 

[JianYang]

IMO McDavid is better than Crosby in the same sense (but to a much lesser degree) that Gretzky was better than Messier. Both Hart level players who could give you very different contributions. Both could single-handedly put a franchise into contention under favorable conditions.

But between the two of them, there’s never really a question that you want the otherworldly scorer, over the all-round contributor with high intangibles. A McDavid level scorer is a unique weapon whose impact can’t be approximated by any other combination of players.

Pretty much my thoughts, except I wouldn't be able to relay them in writing as well as you do.

 

[Nogatco Rd]

It's like the Bure vs Kucherov debate... one is a Lamborghini with all flash no substance (McDavid) and one is a reliable winner and leader (Sid).

A Lamborghini would be both flash and substance though. Delorean is probably the metaphor you’re looking for.

 

[KevinRedkey]

All after 9 seasons:

Points:
McDavid: 982
Crosby: 769

Points per game:
McDavid: 1.52
Crosby: 1.40

Art Ross:
McDavid: 5
Crosby: 2

Pearson:
McDavid: 4
Crosby: 3

Hart:
McDavid: 3
Crosby: 2

Conn Smythe:
McDavid: 1
Crosby: 0

Stanley Cups:
McDavid: 0
Crosby: 1

After his 9th Season, Crosby hit 100+ points once, and added 2 Conn Smythe's, 2 Stanley Cups, and a Rocket.

 

[Frank Drebin]

Still having these conversations in 2024 eh

as another poster mentioned, Sid is to mcdavid as toews was to Sid

No tangible way to have Sid above Connor, even if mcdavid retires without a cup, which he won’t

 

[Flair Hay]

Are we still holding it against mcdavid that the Oilers haven't won a cup with him?

Smart people are not, and they are obviously getting closer and closer.

 

[TheGuiminator]

Same tier even though McDavid is the better player

 

[Mrb1p]

This is simple. Want points, highlights, Art Trophies?

Take McDavid

Want leadership, your team performance to level up, Stanley Cups?

Take Crosby.

It's not even as simple as both have points, arts, highlights and leadership.

Mcdavids dominance offensively needs to be taken in context, and Crosbys leadership is only a function of the great team he lead.

Crosby is the better player and he does make people around him better, he's also more clutch, for whatever it's worth. Mcdavid is amazing and has the longevity and durability if you want to argue this. His trophy case is also more impressive by design. I don't like to argue the last point when it comes to greatness. Lemieux, Orr, Crosby... I won't ignore the absolutely otherworldly things they have done because they have lacked luck.

 

[EdmFlyersfan]

Absolutely Horrible take considering Mcdavid just became the first skater in the 21st century to win the Conn Symthe despite his team losing.

Not really that big of an accomplishment, a career average goalie like Ron Hextall did it '87...meh.

 

[KevinRedkey]

Not really that big of an accomplishment, a career average goalie like Ron Hextall did it '87...meh.

1. The past about it not being a goalie seems to have gone over your head.

2. Calling a goalie who's won a Vezina, Conn Smythe, and is top-50 in all time wins 'career average' is a truly pathetic take.

3. It's not like Crosby at the same age had done a single thing that was remotely as notable/rare regardless, so it's a werid thing to hate on.

 

[tabness]

actually pretty interesting how underwhelming the group of Connsolation Smythe winners are before McDavid:

• Crozier
• Glenn Hall
• Leach
• Hextall
• Giguere
• McDavid

Glenn Hall is the only Hall of Famer before McDavid, maybe Leach or Hextall sorta looked like they could have been early on though

 

[zar]

At this point, fairly comparable. Based on what we’ve seen out of both players this far… McDavid more dynamic offensively. Crosby more solid defensively.

Crosby’s career more defined as its 10 years greater, he has Cups and has a greater opportunity to showcase himself in international competition. McDavid still carving out the what his career might look like in retrospect.

I do think McDavid will be viewed as the better player overall. McDavid’s defensive game has improved significantly over the past couple of years, I hope he wins at least one cup (even if it’s not on the Oilers) and I’m excited to finally see him on the international stage - sad that we have been robbed of seeing 87 and 97 playing together for Team Canada while both were in their prime-ish years.

 

[rubenflamshep]

I'm too lazy to do the math, but I'd be curious to see the extent of McDavid's PPG domination in terms of standard deviations over his prime. At a glance, I don't think he'd be that far ahead of Crosby.

Be that as it may, I'll give the nod to McDavid considering he has been healthy for his prime and has more than met expectations. We'll never know just how dominant Crosby would have been over a full season at his peak.

STD would be best but we can do a point-based comparison. They were neck-and-neck in their early 20s but McDavid has really hit his stride in the last two years:

Usual caveats around different scoring rates in different eras, etc.

I personally don't hold the lack of cup against him. The Oiler have been so terribly managed for so long it's impressive that McDavid has dragged them as close to the cup as he has.

 

[SavoieSeason]

McDavid does things Crosby could never do.

 

[Coffey]

Crosby had the advantage of being on better teams which is why he has the cups.

He couldn’t drag the last 8 Oilers seasons to a cup either.

 

[acor]

All after 9 seasons:

Points:
McDavid: 982
Crosby: 769

Points per game:
McDavid: 1.52
Crosby: 1.40

Not saying that McDavid isn't better (he is), but raw points ren't totally comparable, if you play in much higher scoring era (some might counter that current era is simply better, so numbers are higher, but... I'm somehow not convinced that this year's JT Miller, or last year Ryan Nugent Hopkins would ran away with Art Ross in 2015, and that's the conclusion if you compare raw numbers...).

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Well I don't think I really have to answer on that question, but maybe check what his teams(Team Canada and Pittsburgh) have achieved with him as a captain, then after that see some player polls, interviews and opinions. That'll help to understand why one of the all-time best leaders is a good leader.

You mean like how Crosby won 3 cups while never leading his team in post season scoring.

 

[Nfumass]

I understand the perception. I think it's bullshit though.

Thank goodness gretzky played for a stacked oilers team in the 80s, and that lemieux finally got a really good team around him in the early 90s.

Otherwise who knows what the narrative would been on these guys.

The narrative would have been they were amazing players like mcdavid that couldn’t get it done when it mattered, but we don’t have to have that convo because they did get it done when it mattered. Mcdavid has a long career ahead of him still but to even be mentioned in the same breath as the greats he absolutely needs to win

 

[Nfumass]

Mcdavid also has the luxury of playing in an era with very little contact which is huge for wear and tear and injury’s.

 

[Regal]

McDavid is better but I don’t think he’s in a completely different tier in terms of talent. Sid wasn’t able to maximize his prime with injuries though, so McDavid might end up in a different tier of career

 

[Albatros]

A Lamborghini would be both flash and substance though. Delorean is probably the metaphor you’re looking for.

Lamborghini is indeed famous for "super" cars with no racing pedigree. Look tremendously fast but lack severely in handling. Nowadays it's just another Volkswagen brand, but historically the notion is very real.

 

[Nogatco Rd]

Lamborghini is indeed famous for "super" cars with no racing pedigree. Look tremendously fast but lack severely in handling. Nowadays it's just another Volkswagen brand, but historically the notion is very real.

Interesting.. I stand corrected

 

[blundluntman]

McDavid's peak is a tier above Crosby's as far as I'm concerned, but it'd probably be more of an argument if Crosby hadn't missed so much time from 2011-13.

McDavid's peak years:
2022-23: Tier 2
2020-21: Tier 2
2023-24: Tier 2 (maybe at the low end of that tier regular season-wise, but his playoff run picks up that slack)

Crosby's best seasons:
2010-11: Tier 2/3 (if he'd kept up that level of dominance all season and put up 132 points and 60+ goals, it'd be tier 2, if he'd fizzled out a bit, tier 3)
2012-13: Tier 2/3 (was around .3 ppg higher than the next closest player. It'd likely be tier 2 if he'd maintained that pace over a longer stretch of games)
2013-14: Tier 3 (not quite as good as the two prior seasons but still a decisive enough margin between him and Getzlaf)

Crosby at his best is probably in the same realm as McDavid, but he never got a chance to prove he could sustain that level of play anywhere near as long as McDavid. The same way McDavid's flirted with Gretzky/Lemieux levels of dominance at times, Crosby's done the same with McDavid. I'd definitely say Crosby's closer to McDavid than McDavid is to G/L though.

TLDR: My answer is a very boring "maybe, but maybe not"

 

[ijuka]

Right now? Yes. Career? No.

This is simple. Want points, highlights, Art Trophies?

Take McDavid

Want leadership, your team performance to level up, Stanley Cups?

Take Crosby.

Crosby who was not the best player on his team in any of his 3 cups, yeah.

Imagine if McDavid had that luxury.

 

[crowfish]

McDavids 2022 season was proof of the different tiers they are in. Crosby never came close to leading the league in goals and assists in the same season. Gretzky did it, Lemieux did it, Howe did it, and now McDavid did. That is the tier of forwards above Crosby.

Fun fact, if you combined Crosbys best ever playmaking season (84 assists), with Ovechkins best ever goal scoring season (65)

You get: 65-84 = 149
McDavid by himself in 2022: 64-89-153

You have to combine Crosby with the other generational talent from his era to make him equal McDavid lol, seriously tho... McDavids Art Ross + Hart count: 8, Crosby & Ovechkins Art Ross + Hart count: 8! (in 38 combined seasons compared to McDavids 9 seasons!)

It's not been close for a while now. McDavid is a tier by himself in the cap era.