Is Cale Makar a generational talent?

[Pablo El Perro]

Generational is a messy term. With Makar, I'd ask whether guys like Karlssonn, Lidstrom, Bourque, Pronger, or Potvin were generational. If not, it's probably a no.

 

[Tralfamadore]

He's not but he's real good. Consensus best d man in the league but a couple other guys are close.

 

[benfranklin]

Lidstrom wasn’t a generational talent either.

Agree to disagree. He was the far above his peers for a solid 10+ season span. That to me is generational.

Cale is the defensive version of McDavid. Sure Kuch and MacKinnon got McDavid here and there, but McDavid is the common denominator always at the top. Same with Makar on D. Assuming health and the desire to play until he is 40, he has a realistic shot at Bourques point record.

No big deal, only potentially the highest scoring D ever, but not generational.

 

[Pablo El Perro]

Agree to disagree. He was the far above his peers for a solid 10+ season span. That to me is generational.

Cale is the defensive version of McDavid. Sure Kuch and MacKinnon got McDavid here and there, but McDavid is the common denominator always at the top. Same with Makar on D. Assuming health and the desire to play until he is 40, he has a realistic shot at Bourques point record.

No big deal, only potentially the highest scoring D ever, but not generational.

It's just an odd term. On D, going back to the 70s, you have Orr for the first half, then to Robinson and Potvin, then guys like Coffey and Bourque, with MacInnis and others challenging, then Lidstrom, Pronger, and whoever I'm missing, then Karlssonn, Keith, Hedman, Doughty, whoever else. The point is, with generational, Orr was the only one I've mentioned who was clearly above his peers. And they are all HOF worthy great players.

 

[authentic]

Agree to disagree. He was the far above his peers for a solid 10+ season span. That to me is generational.

Cale is the defensive version of McDavid. Sure Kuch and MacKinnon got McDavid here and there, but McDavid is the common denominator always at the top. Same with Makar on D. Assuming health and the desire to play until he is 40, he has a realistic shot at Bourques point record.

No big deal, only potentially the highest scoring D ever, but not generational.

I wouldn't be shocked if Makar is widely considered a generational defenseman before too long. I personally think he's already better than Lidstrom was and started out even stronger.

 

[Pablo El Perro]

I wouldn't be shocked if Makar is widely considered a generational defenseman before too long. I personally think he's already better than Lidstrom was and started out even stronger.

How about Bourque?

 

[Dust]

Just to think 3 teams passed on him. Generational misses.

 

[PatriceBergeronFan]

How about Bourque?

Bourque is better than Makar will be but that is hardly an insult. Makar is a lethal, elite, and likely generational defenseman when his career ends. Easy #1 this modern high scoring era.

 

[Pablo El Perro]

Bourque is better than Makar will be but that is hardly an insult. Makar is a lethal, elite, and likely generational defenseman when his career ends. Easy #1 this modern high scoring era.

My point in bringing Bourque up wasn't an insult. Bourque is a top 5 damn ever, and I don't think that's arguable. Like Lidstrom and Potvin, it's just hard to call d-men generational.

 

[benfranklin]

It's just an odd term. On D, going back to the 70s, you have Orr for the first half, then to Robinson and Potvin, then guys like Coffey and Bourque, with MacInnis and others challenging, then Lidstrom, Pronger, and whoever I'm missing, then Karlssonn, Keith, Hedman, Doughty, whoever else. The point is, with generational, Orr was the only one I've mentioned who was clearly above his peers. And they are all HOF worthy great players.

I could easily argue via Norris's, Lidstrom is ahead of his peers at the time and we are currently watching it with Makar.

I wouldn't be shocked if Makar is widely considered a generational defenseman before too long. I personally think he's already better than Lidstrom was and started out even stronger.

Lidstrom earned his first of seven Norris's at 31.

 

[Lonewolfe2015]

My point in bringing Bourque up wasn't an insult. Bourque is a top 5 damn ever, and I don't think that's arguable. Like Lidstrom and Potvin, it's just hard to call d-men generational.

IMO the only reason people aren't sold yet is because he didn't win multiple Norris. Coming in the top 3 of every season but his rookie year (tied for 8th) is amazing, but not quite as amazing as if any of his snubs were wins. Or if he had stayed healthy enough to definitively win.

 

[Pablo El Perro]

I could easily argue via Norris's, Lidstrom is ahead of his peers at the time and we are currently watching it with Makar.

Go ahead and argue it if it's easy. I could argue Jagr was better than his peers for a decade, but I'm not calling him generational. I don't think any defenseman was obviously generational other than Orr. And that's not a slight on any other defensemen.

 

[authentic]

I could easily argue via Norris's, Lidstrom is ahead of his peers at the time and we are currently watching it with Makar.


Lidstrom earned his first of seven Norris's at 31.

Exactly, although you could argue he was robbed of one a little earlier in his career and it took some time for him to gain the notice he desrerved early on his career, still though age for age I have Makar better every step of the way, and barring serious injuries I assume he will also age incredibly well.

Bourque is better than Makar will be but that is hardly an insult. Makar is a lethal, elite, and likely generational defenseman when his career ends. Easy #1 this modern high scoring era.

I wouldn't say that with too much certainty to be honest.

 

[authentic]

I wouldn't be shocked if Makar is widely considered a generational defenseman before too long. I personally think he's already better than Lidstrom was and started out even stronger.

People who laugh at this quote really overrate Lidstrom. He never put up a performance like Makar did in their Cup winning year and he was never all that close to the best players in the game like Makar is. People debate if Makar is better than MacKinnon and a lot of Avalanche fans claim he is. Lidstrom was not as good as MacKinnon, no question about it.

 

[Pablo El Perro]

Exactly, although you could argue he was robbed of one a little earlier in his career and it took some time for him to gain the notice he desrerved early on his career, still though age for age I have Makar better every step of the way, and barring serious injuries I assume he will also age incredibly well.



I wouldn't say that with too much certainty to be honest.

Anyone can argue anything, although that requires an argument. The question is whether any of them are generational. For D, I have Orr, then about 10 to 20 great defensemen. Some are better than others, depending on whether we are focusing on peak, trophies, career, points, two-way play, and so on. Orr is the only one I'd call generational.

 

[authentic]

Anyone can argue anything, although that requires an argument. The question is whether any of them are generational. For D, I have Orr, then about 10 to 20 great defensemen. Some are better than others, depending on whether we are focusing on peak, trophies, career, points, two-way play, and so on. Orr is the only one I'd call generational.

Everyone in the thread has different definitions, but I have no problem calling Orr the only real generational defenseman personally. The way I see it a generational player does not come around every generation, that's what I always thought was meant by the term. Or else you're just the best player of your generation placed in the same category as others who were way more dominant.

 

[dirtydanglez]

too early to say but looking like hes a half step below generational. fox and hughes are close but not quite at the same level

 

[Pablo El Perro]

Everyone in the thread has different definitions, but I have no problem calling Orr the only real generational defenseman personally. The way I see it a generational player does not come around every generation, that's what I always thought was meant by the term.

That was my original point. For most of the history of the NHL, you have a guy you can say is the best defenseman in the league for whatever stretch. But nobody is that far above their peers. Potvin has guys like Robinson and a few others. Bourque has Coffey and MacInnis for a bit, Lidstrom later, then Lidstrom has Pronger winning MVP in the mix, then we get any of Karlssonn, Hedman, Keith, Doughty, and so on. The difference between Makar and Hughes isn't comparable to Orr and every d-man in the league.

 

[Lonewolfe2015]

too early to say but looking like hes a half step below generational. fox and hughes are close but not quite at the same level

This isn't meant to spiral out of control, but I honestly question how those two could be close. It's like comparing MacK to McDavid IMHO. It's clearly not close over their careers, maybe on any given night or season.

Makar has literally been a top 10 defender since he joined the league. Top 3 for half a decade now. Fox and Hughes have been great, but so has Hedman, Josi, McAvoy... That pack is where I see Fox and Hughes, not with Makar.

 

[authentic]

That was my original point. For most of the history of the NHL, you have a guy you can say is the best defenseman in the league for whatever stretch. But nobody is that far above their peers. Potvin has guys like Robinson and a few others. Bourque has Coffey and MacInnis for a bit, Lidstrom later, then Lidstrom has Pronger winning MVP in the mix, then we get any of Karlssonn, Hedman, Keith, Doughty, and so on. The difference between Makar and Hughes isn't comparable to Orr and every d-man in the league.

Oh it's not even in the ballpark. I'm saying he has an outside chance if he finds a full season gear of 110+ points for multiple seasons while no one else breaks 100. That likely won't happen though when you really think of it but he is also pretty good defensively for an offensive defenseman of that caliber, but yeah I agree really.

 

[Pablo El Perro]

This isn't meant to spiral out of control, but I honestly question how those two could be close. It's like comparing MacK to McDavid IMHO. It's clearly not close over their careers, maybe on any given night or season.

Makar has literally been a top 10 defender since he joined the league. Top 3 for half a decade now. Fox and Hughes have been great, but so has Hedman, Josi, McAvoy... That pack is where I see Fox and Hughes, not with Makar.

Makar isn't far ahead of any of that field. The McDavid comparison just isn't there.

Oh it's not even in the ballpark. I'm saying he has an outside chance if he finds a full season gear of 110+ points for multiple seasons while no one else breaks 100. That likely won't happen though when you really think of it but he is also pretty good defensively for an offensive defenseman of that caliber, but yeah I agree really.

In 1981, Potvin was a God.

 

[NOTENOUGHRYJOTHINGS]

Makar will never be generational when Hughes is better and younger.

 

[authentic]

Makar isn't far ahead of any of that field. The McDavid comparison just isn't there.


In 1981, Potvin was a God.

In the regular season that was the beginning of his decline to just around a point per game, but he was otherwordly in the playoffs that year. Still though, adjusted for era 29 in 20 for Makar > 25 in 18 for Potvin... Although Potvin was a literal rock defensively, Makar was quite impressive in his own right in 2022 though.

Out of all those older defensemen besides Orr, the one I'm most impressed with is Larry Robinson when I go back and watch old games. He just looked like he was really on another level to me, I think he's underrated in all-time conversations.

 

[Pablo El Perro]

In the regular season that was the beginning of his decline to just around a point per game, but he was otherwordly in the playoffs that year. Still though, adjusted for era 29 in 20 for Makar > 25 in 18 for Potvin... Although Potvin was a literal rock defensively, Makar was quite impressive in his own right in 2022 though.

Out of all those older defensemen besides Orr, the one I'm most impressed with is Larry Robinson when I go back and watch old games. He just looked like he was really on another level to me, I think he's underrated in all-time conversations.

Robinson doesn't get enough respect. He was a unique player. And my point has nothing to do with comparing Makar to Potvin or Bourque, or whoever else. Just saying he isn't any better than his peers as they were. The comparison of Makar to McDavid above proves how silly the generational argument is.

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

I wouldn't be shocked if Makar is widely considered a generational defenseman before too long. I personally think he's already better than Lidstrom was and started out even stronger.

I would ask how much you saw Lidstrom in his prime.