Is Bettman plotting for a 36-team NHL?

Goptor

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Jun 30, 2016
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Further expansion is so stupid. Bettman is stuck in 1980s style management.
The 2 best run leagues are doing the exact opposite of what he's doing because they realize its 2024.

Replace problem owners, move poorly performing markets into stronger markets. Team valuation is directly tied to the weakest links in the league so NBA/NFL are getting far better returns this way. It also increases fan interest because nobody is stuck with a forever loser team to root for.

Bettman's expansion just further separates the weak links in the league so they get the bonus cash but lose out on weaker team valuation.
 

CanMerc

#FIRECHEVY
Dec 7, 2023
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You're forgetting the Quebec Bulldogs 1919-1920
The Bulldogs never played in the NHL… though they were a founding member of the league.

yea quebec has more potential to pull in money then atlanta.. if not quebec then give it to hamilton weather leafs like it or not.
I’d rather see London Ontario get a team over Hamilton… though both are undesirable due to location between DET, BUF and TML
 

CanMerc

#FIRECHEVY
Dec 7, 2023
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810
Though I don’t advocate for it, they could also split the league into east and west Mini leagues each of 2 conferences, of 8 teams In each conference…(could do 2, 4 team divisions per conference if desired)
No crossing over from West to East or vice versa except in pre-season and during playoffs.
Playoffs Format could either be mini league playoffs with final team from West playing final team from east for Stanley cup… or first 2 rounds stay in mini league then branch to larger league.
Problem here is very little exposure of teams to fans from other mini league, and alienating cross mini league fans (ie…living in west and being a fan of NYR or living in east and being fan of VAN)

Not in 2024 they don't. Corporate money is very important.
But so are political issues and Atlanta isn’t as desirable as it once was
 

tucker3434

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Though I don’t advocate for it, they could also split the league into east and west Mini leagues each of 2 conferences, of 8 teams In each conference…(could do 2, 4 team divisions per conference if desired)
No crossing over from West to East or vice versa except in pre-season and during playoffs.
Playoffs Format could either be mini league playoffs with final team from West playing final team from east for Stanley cup… or first 2 rounds stay in mini league then branch to larger league.
Problem here is very little exposure of teams to fans from other mini league, and alienating cross mini league fans (ie…living in west and being a fan of NYR or living in east and being fan of VAN)


But so are political issues and Atlanta isn’t as desirable as it once was

Political issues? What political issues are we facing that any other bigger city isn't?
 
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Crede777

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Dec 16, 2009
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32 teams is perfect, and cannot properly support each of those markets, anyway.

If you're going to expand it even further, just introduce movement between NHL and AHL so teams cannot just tank. If you're going to get relegated down to AHL, then maybe you'll care about winning games.
Would never happen. That would dramatically decrease team values across the board overnight because it introduces the risk that teams might not be playing in the top league next year.
 

SomeDude

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Mar 6, 2006
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I mean, if 650 million dollar buy in gets me a 1-1.25 billion dollar asset that generates 195 plus million on revenues... sure sign me up for that Ponzi.
Yea, nobody is getting a franchise for nearly that cheap anymore

The only reason expansion will continue to happen is existing teams want quick money from their cut of the franchise fees.
 

BCNate

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Apr 3, 2016
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I feel the league will be at 36 teams before long.

SLC, KC, Houston and Atlanta. If QC gets a team, most likely a relocate.
 

Crede777

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All potential investors should probably hold off until the NHL's plan to tackle streaming / the demise of cable becomes clear.
 

JianYang

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Sep 29, 2017
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Am I a curmudgeon if I don’t want anymore new teams? Seems like an unnecessary risk for a sport that is still largely a niche sport in the US.

I don't think it's niche standing is all that relevant. They have a hard cap and cost certainty, and I think that makes investors happy, so the interest level was bound to go up.

You can be a niche offering and still have many teams. The key is whether the cap/revenue sharing system creates an economic model that people want to invest in.... and the answer to that seems to be yes.
 

cowboy82nd

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Feb 19, 2012
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The Bulldogs never played in the NHL… though they were a founding member of the league.


I’d rather see London Ontario get a team over Hamilton… though both are undesirable due to location between DET, BUF and TML

I show that they played in the NHL for one year 1919-1920 season and then became the Hamilton Tigers.
 

Legionnaire11

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I can never find proof of it, but I'm 99.99% certain that at some point between VGK and SEA expansion (almost definitely 2020 after the COVID qualifying round) Daly was in the newspaper or radio talking about the possibility that they go to 36 teams and change the playoff format to include a qualifying round. Presumably the top-3 in each division would automatically qualify and then the 4th and 5th place team in each division would have a 3-5 game play-in round to earn the 4th spot with no more cross-division wild card scenario. It would allow 20 teams to "make the playoffs" and earn a minimum of 2-3 games of home playoff revenue. So even though the league is 36 teams, 55% would still make the playoffs each season, which is more than the current 50%.

As for the argument that the NHL shouldn't have the most teams since it's the least popular sport. That's actually a reason that they should have the most teams. No other league relies as much on gate revenue and local TV revenue. Adding more markets increases these vital revenue streams.

It also creates like 90 additional jobs for the PA so they should be in favor of it. And as far as rivalries go, you have to think that the emphasis on division play would increase. The negative would be a decrease in cross-conference games which already suffer, especially from East coast fans perspective.

None of this is to say that I would personally make the call for expansion as Commissioner, just pointing out the reasoning for it and that it's not all that horrible as some people are making it out to be.


Lastly, it's mind boggling how few people seem to understand which markets exist in the NHL and why. It's not a hierarchy with Gary Bettman at the top making decisions for the league, nor is it actually the league (governors) plotting a geographic footprint and deciding which markets to place teams in via expansion and relocation. NHL teams rely on ownership groups that have the financial ability to operate a team in a city that owner(s) like with a suitable building and mutual desire to host a team. When Quebec moved to Denver, they didn't have all of those things. The reason Arizona still has a team is that despite losing money in massive amounts, they still have an owner who wants to continue to fund his team and make a go of it in that market. The reason Winnipeg got a team back is that the Thrashers were sold to a group who had no desire to operate a hockey team and so they sold it to someone who did, and had the building and market. Of course Bettman and the governors can influence these things and get final approval, but there are extreme limitations on their powers to dictate which markets the league is in.
 
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hockey20000

Registered User
Dec 23, 2018
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I feel the league will be at 36 teams before long.

SLC, KC, Houston and Atlanta. If QC gets a team, most likely a relocate.
gross if atlanta gets team before quebec thats sad lol. i agree with slc and houston 100% KC Wouldn't shock me but i dont think is 100% done deal like houston and slc probs are.
 

BCNate

Registered User
Apr 3, 2016
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gross if atlanta gets team before quebec thats sad lol. i agree with slc and houston 100% KC Wouldn't shock me but i dont think is 100% done deal like houston and slc probs are.
QC may very well be the first to get a team if the Coyotes move. SLC aside, I think that the other markets would be more willing to pay the expansion fee, which is why I think they will get the expansion teams. Geography, timing and conference balance will be huge in any moves that are made.
 

DaveG

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Apr 7, 2003
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None... AND Atlanta has added like another million people to the metro population since the Thrashers left. With an owner who is dedicated, and the current expansion rules, it will be a huge success.
not to mention the current proposal is a situation where the arena will be located where the majority of the fanbase is, unlike with Phillips, making it actually more convenient to go to the game even though it's in the 'burbs.
 

Melrose Munch

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Mar 18, 2007
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You're going to have to dumb that one down for me. Revenue has largely risen faster than population growth over the last ~20 years.
Because they keep taking the money and doing quick advertising. The hockey guy has a very good video on how the NHL keeps making more money but nothing gets better.
 

KingsOfCali25

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Feb 21, 2013
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You would want the Metro to have either Atlanta or Houston, while Dallas plays in the Central? I can see if it's Atlanta but not Houston.
There is not a realistic expansion city for the Metro division other than Atlanta 3.0. I know the NHL wants larger TV markets and Atlanta is top10 in the US (also where Tunner Broadcasting is located), but it's already failed twice. So if they want Houston (another large tv market area) in the league than the Metro is a spot to put them. It's no different than having Arizona in the Central. The NFL already has Dallas in the NFC and Houston in the AFC, so it works.

I mean you could try Indianapolis for a Metro team or move Nashville to the Metro to keep Houston innthe Central but then again you're splitting hairs.

Houston would be in the Central with Dallas
The could be or the could be in the Metro. If the NHL is determined to get Atlanta back in than yes. But if Atlanta doesn't have funding or fans than I could see Houston go to the Metro while someone like Salt Lake City or Kansas City goes to the Central with Arizona back to the Pacific.

Pacific: Arizona
Central: Salt Lake City, Houston
Metro: Atlanta
Atlantic: Quebec City
 

Sigh

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What would the schedule even look like? They would have to cut way back on the 2x inter-conference crap.

Can doesn’t equal should. I see the upside for the owners and players, but I don’t see how this makes anything better for the customers (ie. us). More also-rans playing boring but winning systems with boring interchangeable players. I feel like the NHL is already so close to losing my interest that it’s not going to take much to actually get me to stop watching altogether. 15+ years ago I’d have never thought I would be saying this.
 

KrisLetAngry

MrJukeBoy
Dec 20, 2013
19,073
5,309
Saskatchewan
Further expansion is so stupid. Bettman is stuck in 1980s style management.
The 2 best run leagues are doing the exact opposite of what he's doing because they realize its 2024.

Replace problem owners, move poorly performing markets into stronger markets. Team valuation is directly tied to the weakest links in the league so NBA/NFL are getting far better returns this way. It also increases fan interest because nobody is stuck with a forever loser team to root for.

Bettman's expansion just further separates the weak links in the league so they get the bonus cash but lose out on weaker team valuation.
I have a feeling the NBA is going to add 2 teams to make it 32.
 

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