Indifference vs Incompetence
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ToneDog
56 years and counting. #FireTheShanaClan!
Isaac Nootin
Registered User
- Sep 28, 2017
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fancy lad
Registered User
- Nov 22, 2021
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i think the current management group WANT to win. I also think the players want to win. No one is indifferent (although i can't read Shanahan.... i don't even know what the point of him is).
Dubas, as much as he wants it, just hasn't executed a good plan. His vision or whatever you want to call it is flawed. I wouldn't chalk that up to lack of trying.
Dubas, as much as he wants it, just hasn't executed a good plan. His vision or whatever you want to call it is flawed. I wouldn't chalk that up to lack of trying.
GoonieFace
Registered User
Pure incompetence. They always spend the money, they just never seem to be able to put it all together. This group in general has completely fumbled the opportunity gifted to them.
ACC1224
Super Elite, Passing ALL Tests since 2002
- Aug 19, 2002
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Agreed.
Really hoping some of the 'Indifferent' believers will post their thoughts, love to understand the thinking behind it.
Buds17
Registered User
- Nov 29, 2015
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Inability. Winning games = more playoff dates @ SBA = more money. No doubt that MLSE makes great money through the team's current state. A greater amount of success would result in making even more money than that. The notion that they don't want to win is ludicrous.
ToneDog
56 years and counting. #FireTheShanaClan!
What is that? They want to win, are competent but haven't been able to win in 56 years ?? Shit you are right, UNLUCKY.
Mickey Marner
Registered User
Ownership is indifferent, management is incompetent. MLSE owns TFC, the Raptors, Argos, Marlies and 905's, all of whom have won a championship recently.
ULF_55
Moderator
I went incompetence.
They believed in the core of the team.
They thought Tavares,Matthews and marner could carry the team in the post season.
That was wrong, thus incompetence in evaluating the players.
They believed in the core of the team.
They thought Tavares,Matthews and marner could carry the team in the post season.
That was wrong, thus incompetence in evaluating the players.
ACC1224
Super Elite, Passing ALL Tests since 2002
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Mess
Global Moderator
The Leafs are one of the original 6 Flag Ship franchises of the NHL, and among the richest teams where financially there are no limitations to making roster decisions other than the league imposed salary cap system to provide parity across all markets big and small.
The Salary Cap was instituted in 2005.
The team with the worst and longest playoff winning drought is also the Toronto Maple Leafs which dates back 18 years and back to 2004 (prior the to the salary cap being instituted)
This to me is then a case of having more $$ money than brains, or incompetence in management
to be able to build a winner because they spend harder and not smarter on player personnel and contracts.
With the current management team they issued the death nail in playoff competitiveness when they signed Tavares for $11 mil and not understanding the domino effect it would have drawing others up to his level and thus spending toooo much on tooo few players that it limits success that is being proved year after year in round #1.
The Salary Cap was instituted in 2005.
The team with the worst and longest playoff winning drought is also the Toronto Maple Leafs which dates back 18 years and back to 2004 (prior the to the salary cap being instituted)
This to me is then a case of having more $$ money than brains, or incompetence in management
to be able to build a winner because they spend harder and not smarter on player personnel and contracts.With the current management team they issued the death nail in playoff competitiveness when they signed Tavares for $11 mil and not understanding the domino effect it would have drawing others up to his level and thus spending toooo much on tooo few players that it limits success that is being proved year after year in round #1.
PromisedLand
I need more FOOD
straight up incompetence.
if MLSE was indifferent I don't think we would have seen scorched earth.
That said though I'd like to put a little spin on it if I may...
the management group has reached such levels of incompetence that some or most in the fanbase is becoming indifferent to the team and choosing something else to invest their time and money.
if MLSE was indifferent I don't think we would have seen scorched earth.
That said though I'd like to put a little spin on it if I may...
the management group has reached such levels of incompetence that some or most in the fanbase is becoming indifferent to the team and choosing something else to invest their time and money.
Top six is indifferent. Bottom six is incompetent.
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Unfortunately fans will never stop showing up. I live in Windsor and I just paid $1300 for two tickets to go see the Leafs play the Wings even though I’m loosing more and more faith in this management group and team.
I keep telling myself if Matthews walks after his contract, that’s when I’ll be done being a Maple Leaf fan.
Got little Caesar’s arena 25 minutes away from me and way cheaper tickets, not terrible I guess lol.
I keep telling myself if Matthews walks after his contract, that’s when I’ll be done being a Maple Leaf fan.
Got little Caesar’s arena 25 minutes away from me and way cheaper tickets, not terrible I guess lol.
ACC1224
Super Elite, Passing ALL Tests since 2002
- Aug 19, 2002
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Well it was technically a 30th birthday gift from my wife. I had a mini heart attack when she told me the price. I’m sitting a couple rows behind the bench next to the glass where the players walk in and out so I keep telling myself it’ll be worth it if I can get Matthews stick or a signed jersey lol.
ACC1224
Super Elite, Passing ALL Tests since 2002
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Got it, nice gift, enjoy it.
May as well go all out and book a table for dinner in The Hot Stove Lounge.
CDN24
Registered User
- Jun 17, 2009
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Incompetence.
It feels like no one in the management chain realizes that they are building a team and not a collection of individuals that they will form a team with. There is a difference, most teams that are successful in the playoffs are greater than the sum of their parts because their parts complement each other. The model of spending half the cap on 4F, Then after investing close to another 25% in your top 3 D, you essentially have 25% of the Cap left to add goalies, 8F and 3 D to ice a minimum 20 man roster. If you have a steady stream of prospects on ELC, maybe it works but Leafs don't have that. After Matthews Marner, Nylander and Rielley only 3 guys on the roster when all are healthy are your draft picks (Engvall, Lily and Sandin). If you have to dumspter dive for 1/2 your roster from other teams rejects, chances are you will not have a team greater than the sum of its parts.
One would think Shanny at least understands this but maybe as a star player he things he won those cups because of only him Yzerman, Federov and Lidstrom. He is undervaluing the supporting cast, the Larionovs the McCartys, The Kozlovs, The Maltbys, the fetisovs, the Lapointes etc
It feels like no one in the management chain realizes that they are building a team and not a collection of individuals that they will form a team with. There is a difference, most teams that are successful in the playoffs are greater than the sum of their parts because their parts complement each other. The model of spending half the cap on 4F, Then after investing close to another 25% in your top 3 D, you essentially have 25% of the Cap left to add goalies, 8F and 3 D to ice a minimum 20 man roster. If you have a steady stream of prospects on ELC, maybe it works but Leafs don't have that. After Matthews Marner, Nylander and Rielley only 3 guys on the roster when all are healthy are your draft picks (Engvall, Lily and Sandin). If you have to dumspter dive for 1/2 your roster from other teams rejects, chances are you will not have a team greater than the sum of its parts.
One would think Shanny at least understands this but maybe as a star player he things he won those cups because of only him Yzerman, Federov and Lidstrom. He is undervaluing the supporting cast, the Larionovs the McCartys, The Kozlovs, The Maltbys, the fetisovs, the Lapointes etc
zoA
Registered User
- Mar 23, 2010
- 873
- 344
Incompetence for sure. With the financial barrier to entry with hockey, success of other Toronto sports teams, and growing number of newcomers to Toronto that don't know much about hockey, it's more important than ever to win. On top of that, it's a pretty large influx of money to at least get to the finals. At the very least, they need to get rid of the narrative of this team consistently being losers by winning a couple rounds.
They're obviously not incompetent overall, but there's objectively enough proof that this team doesn't have what it takes to win the cup. With the amount of skill we have, there's a chance for sure, but it just seems like we don't have the right mix of players. That said, it's incredibly difficult to build a winning team so I'm somewhat patient, but with as many first round losses as we've had, you would have expected some more changes -- most companies wouldn't operate the way MLSE has.
They're obviously not incompetent overall, but there's objectively enough proof that this team doesn't have what it takes to win the cup. With the amount of skill we have, there's a chance for sure, but it just seems like we don't have the right mix of players. That said, it's incredibly difficult to build a winning team so I'm somewhat patient, but with as many first round losses as we've had, you would have expected some more changes -- most companies wouldn't operate the way MLSE has.
Mess
Global Moderator
The answer is tied to profitability and then in turn franchise value when discussing ownership motivation to run a fortune 500 company.
Corporate Ticket Holders
The Toronto Maple Leafs are the most expensive team to follow, mostly because their games are the most popular. While annual hikes in ticket prices aren’t anything unusual for sports teams, the Maple Leafs have been increasing by around 15% annually for several years. This is partially due to the popularity of the team, but also the fact that a majority of Scotiabank Arena’s seats are reserved for season ticket holders, including corporations.Forbes Fortune 500 highest valued franchises 2022
1. New York Rangers
• Value: $2 billion
• One-Year Change: 21%
• Five-Year Change: 60%
• Owner: Madison Square Garden Sports
2. Toronto Maple Leafs
• Value: $1.8 billion
• One-Year Change: 20%
• Five-Year Change: 64%
• Owner: Bell Canada, Rogers Communications, Larry Tanenbaum
So for Leaf Nation fans "incompetence" is the response because its all comes down to winning in the playoffs, because there is no Financial benefit..
However to Ownership having expensive players on the ice allows them to charge and validate the price of admission by charging the highest ticket prices as well as sponsor, donors, investors and advertisers etc. That in turn fuels franchise value which places Leafs #2 and approaching $2 billion on franchise value. Making the playoffs guarantees putting a good team for entertainment purposes on the ice and so winning a few playoff rounds might bring the profitability up by millions but that pales in the franchise value in the billions. Due the high regular season ticket prices it more than makes up financially for not winning in the playoffs.
So Fans and Ownership are on a different pages when it comes what motivates them and what appears to be indifference by not changing losing management, is more about showing stability and about profitability as opposed to team playoffs success which fans call incompetence.
Larcos_Unal
Registered Nurse
Ownership spends
It's not indifference, it's incompetence
- to the cap (and beyond acquiring LTIR contracts if they think it's an advantage)
- likely more than most teams on scouting and front office staff
- above the norm on coaching, analytics and medical personnel
- on state of the art facilities and equipment for the players
It's not indifference, it's incompetence
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