Rumor: In-season Proposals, Rumors, Free Agents & Roster Moves (related topics) LXXXI

[Freudian]

A lot of these older players like Olli Jokinen and Talbot were traded for very little return with salary retained. Briere at 50% retained is 2 million. Not many top teams could afford him. I think its safe to say no team wanted him.

The cap hit is smaller at trade deadline. It's only a $1M cap hit for Briere.

Avs didn't really try to do anything to boost his value. He was a healthy scratch for most games.

 

[Thepoolmaster]

The cap hit is smaller at trade deadline. It's only a $1M cap hit for Briere.

Avs didn't really try to do anything to boost his value. He was a healthy scratch for most games.

My mistake. Forgot about that.

 

[tigervixxxen]

I don't think he should. The other day I believe Roy said he'll start skating some time in the next two weeks. There's not a lot of season left after that point. We're not making the playoffs so why risk it?

I cringe every time Varly takes a bit longer than normal to get back up after making a save.

He does that like 5x a game where I'm like "OMG did Varly break this time...oh, oh he's back up, never mind".

Wouldn't it be better for EJ to touch the ice, get a little confidence back. Even just a couple games?

 

[ABasin]

Wouldn't it be better for EJ to touch the ice, get a little confidence back. Even just a couple games?

I don't know, TV. I guess I can see some upside to that, but boy can I see one large particular downside also, ya know?

 

[Foppa2118]

He does that like 5x a game where I'm like "OMG did Varly break this time...oh, oh he's back up, never mind".

Wouldn't it be better for EJ to touch the ice, get a little confidence back. Even just a couple games?

I wonder how much benefit EJ playing will truly have for him though. Even if he's built back some strength it still seems susceptible to a freak hit or a tweak of some sorts. Personally I'd rather him just keep rehabbing and building strength in the knee. He can skate a bit in practice, and in the off season under less dangerous circumstances.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Yeah I know there's no real benefit to him playing but one could argue there's no real benefit to any of our key guys playing. They may not have had knee scopes but surely are all dealing with one thing or another.

 

[agentblack]

yes it would have been cool to get something for Briere but im happy having the cap space for the summer and next year

 

[ABasin]

Yeah I know there's no real benefit to him playing but one could argue there's no real benefit to any of our key guys playing. They may not have had knee scopes but surely are all dealing with one thing or another.

Well, I have two thoughts.

Your post brings to mind a television thing I saw about Bill Parcells. He was asked about playing Lawrence Taylor in a relatively non-important game, when LT had a shoulder injury. Parcells said "He's a player, if he can play, he plays"(sic). Something along those lines.

The other thought that comes to mind re: your post, is around the chances of re-injury. Sometimes players have injuries, and you hear about 'they can't really do any more harm' to themselves. In other words, they can play hurt without too much risk. I don't recall reading about exactly what EJ's knee injury is/was, but if there's even a nominal risk of re-injury, I'd sit him.

However, if the docs say that he's pretty much as good as new, I suppose it doesn't matter much. To your point, why risk any of the top players in such circumstances?

 

[Foppa2118]

Well, I have two thoughts.

Your post brings to mind a television thing I saw about Bill Parcells. He was asked about playing Lawrence Taylor in a relatively non-important game, when LT had a shoulder injury. Parcells said "He's a player, if he can play, he plays"(sic). Something along those lines.

The other thought that comes to mind re: your post, is around the chances of re-injury. Sometimes players have injuries, and you hear about 'they can't really do any more harm' to themselves. In other words, they can play hurt without too much risk. I don't recall reading about exactly what EJ's knee injury is/was, but if there's even a nominal risk of re-injury, I'd sit him.

However, if the docs say that he's pretty much as good as new, I suppose it doesn't matter much. To your point, why risk any of the top players in such circumstances?

I think there's also the idea that a player can get back to maybe about 98% strength or so in the knee and still play. Seems as though players often say it's not quite back to 100% but they can still play on it, quite often. Probably because that last 2% or so takes the longest to fully heal and gain strength back. Chances are he'll be fine and won't hurt it again, but I don't see a whole lot of point in risking it given how important EJ is and their position in the standings.

 

[Foppa2118]

Yeah I know there's no real benefit to him playing but one could argue there's no real benefit to any of our key guys playing. They may not have had knee scopes but surely are all dealing with one thing or another.

True, but knees are just a lot more worrisome to me because you can tweak something on a play that looks totally harmless.

I wonder if we'll start to see guys sit a little more down the stretch though. Someone like Landy might sit a game here or there if he's still got that hip problem and he's pushing it too hard. They obviously don't want that leading to other injuries like an oblique tear or a sports hernia or something because he's compensating for it. The way Tanguay's knee injury lead to his hip problem.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Yeah I think EJ is one of those will play through anything kind of players. He was pretty much playing hurt through it for months anyway. So I think if they clear him then he's going in no matter what according to him. But trust me I understand its a gamble not worth taking to an important player.

 

[Foppa2118]

Yeah I think EJ is one of those will play through anything kind of players. He was pretty much playing hurt through it for months anyway. So I think if they clear him then he's going in no matter what according to him. But trust me I understand its a gamble not worth taking to an important player.

Yea I have a feeling he'll push to play too.

 

[iand22]

There's always the part about a player coming back and getting those "gunshy" games in so that you can feel good about where you're headed going into the offseason. It didn't really help us last year, but the psyche of a player is hard to judge.

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

I think the benefits of moving him at the draft are pretty significant.

1) any picks we acquire will be picks in this draft, not next year's draft. Which makes a big difference on the utility of those secondary pieces to us.
2) teams won't have started filling out their roster with UFAs/won't be fully focused on picking over this very thin UFA market and so will have more roster/cap flexibility and a greater willingness to make major changes.
3) it gives Patrick and Joe time to be fully prepared for UFA if they can have time to look deeper into what their options there are with a firmer understanding of what our future core looks like and what we need to fill (i.e. difference between a prospect who'll be at least pushing for a top 4 gig by seasons end, and one who is likely to just be earning their first callup by season's end; do we get a forward back in the ror trade?; do Soderberg/Martin/Sekera/Erhoff/Vermette re-sign with their current clubs?, etc.)

So I really do think there's a significant benefit to forcing the issue before the draft, unless negotiations are going better than expected and for a while real progress is possible...before things stall again, forcing the trade.

As for our D pool, I like it a lot to, but we really could use one more stud who has a higher ceiling than Bigras for me to feel convinced that our future on D will be sexy. I really love Bigras, and he will play with EJ if someone young enough to keep the job hasn't claimed it before Chris gets there; I still like Siemens a lot, his development has been messy and he needs a big year, but he's got nice middle pairing tools and has developed (even if it has been slower than we'd have liked); Gaertsen's exciting and could surpass Siemens if he keeps making big strides every year while Dunk slowly moves forward; and the other projects (Wood, Butcher, Corbett, Beaupre, Storm if he's still ours) are all interesting for their own reasons...but Bigras is the only guy in our pool we should feel confident in banking on becoming even "just" a top 4 guy. Though I do think Dunk and Gaerts can both grow into really nice Barrie partners, it's still going to take a while (quite a while in Gaertsen's case) and it's a gamble that they don't stagnate. To be well covered we would need a Zadorov/Morrissey type who can become even better than Bigras, so that we're still well set if only one of Siemens/Gaertsen can become an NHLer. Even if we do add a vet to give the kids time to develop at their own pace. That's why I see the need to add one more major young LHD talent in the ROR trade, regardless of what happens in FA.

Those reasons are not that significant.

Any pick we get wont really effect the immediate roster. we are not getting a guy like Zadorov and a 1st round pick. There is one benefit to having 2016 picks though. They can still be traded in the upcoming year. As an assist that's actually more utility right there. Whereas any 2015 pick is just turning into a prospect. I don't see a big difference between a 2015 2nd rounder and 2016, just a year younger. But like I said, I highly doubt we are getting a 1st round pick along with a guy like Zadorov. We're talking 2nd round and lower level talents. Not exactly something that should be a huge factor in this big decision.

Teams should know RoR is available. Nobody will have started to fill out their roster yet. With the new rules these teams can make plans A, B, C and D before FA even starts. RoR should be part of those plans. I'm not saying to make him available at the end up summer. And like you said, "very thin FA class". RoR will be a popular guy even if some other players have signed before it is known he is available. Was it hard to trade Spezza after the draft?

Patrick and Joe should be fully aware regardless. They, however, won't have a better understanding of the core. Sure, the defensive core would look pretty set, but then we put a hole in our forward core, which right now is set with Duchene, Mack, Lando and RoR. Either way we are missing a core piece. Waiting till FA gives us a better understanding of how we can fill that hole. Maybe we can sign a top forward, but not Dman. In that case we need to trade for a Dman. Maybe we can sign the top Dman but not forward. In which case then we would need to trade for said forward. Maybe we can sign both and then we can be really be open in what we take back in a trade.

Yes, Bigras is the only guy we should bank on to play a high role. Bleackley is the same case for forwards. But at least very solid group of Dmen with potential. The forward group is bare after Bleackley.

If we do trade RoR for a guy like Zadorov, what's your plan to replace RoR? Because that's a big hole we can't fill in house (other than Bleackley, but that's less likely than Bigras jumping into a top4 role). And free agency is, as you said, very thin.

 

[dahrougem2]

No more or less than someone saying "Sakic's doing a good job as a GM". Both sides of the same coin.

If being in the actual Avs' management conference rooms is necessary to offer an opinion, then we may as well shut this forum down.

"No clue what to do with upcoming UFA's" is a little different tune than "Sakic's doing a good job as a GM" to me. One of those is drastic, the other isn't.

You may not trust Sakic, and I understand why. You're not a person willing to hand out trust instantly, and that's your way of looking at things, which I try to do too. I just think that, since he and Roy took over, there have been more positives than negatives with this team and the way it's being built. That's why I personally have trust in Sakic and Roy.

 

[ABasin]

"No clue what to do with upcoming UFA's" is a little different tune than "Sakic's doing a good job as a GM" to me. One of those is drastic, the other isn't.

You may not trust Sakic, and I understand why. You're not a person willing to hand out trust instantly, and that's your way of looking at things, which I try to do too. I just think that, since he and Roy took over, there have been more positives than negatives with this team and the way it's being built.

I don't have an issue with that. I'm not down on every move Sakic has made as a GM - I think he's executed some moves that are quite positive.

I just believe he doesn't have a clue what to do with valuable (upcoming) UFAs on his roster.

 

[Gigantor The Goalie]

I don't have an issue with that. I'm not down on every move Sakic has made as a GM - I think he's executed some moves that are quite positive.

I just believe he doesn't have a clue what to do with valuable (upcoming) UFAs on his roster.

That's a strong word to use

 

[Cousin Eddie]

I don't have an issue with that. I'm not down on every move Sakic has made as a GM - I think he's executed some moves that are quite positive.

I just believe he doesn't have a clue what to do with valuable (upcoming) UFAs on his roster.

To me it comes down to what Hejda was worth. Is a 3rd round pick really more valuable than having Hejda on our D next year on what will probably be a discount 2-2.5 mil contract? I don't think so.

We can go ahead and start writing down next years roster with blanks saying (UFA/trade) but the fact is that we've been doing that every year and nothing has changed. There will be one real good LHD UFA this year and he's going to cost a lot. If we lose out (when there's 20 other teams bidding the odds aren't exactly that great) we're in trouble again.

We can say over and over we should move on from Hejda because the D needs to take a different direction but the reality of that is Hejda walking, not landing Martin/Ehrhoff and our best LHD next year is Nick Holden. Hejda is no saviour and shouldn't be such a need for our team but when your next best LHD are Holden and Stuart you probably shouldn't let Hejda go.

 

[AvsRobin]

To me it comes down to what Hejda was worth. Is a 3rd round pick really more valuable than having Hejda on our D next year on what will probably be a discount 2-2.5 mil contract? I don't think so.

We can go ahead and start writing down next years roster with blanks saying (UFA/trade) but the fact is that we've been doing that every year and nothing has changed. There will be one real good LHD UFA this year and he's going to cost a lot. If we lose out (when there's 20 other teams bidding the odds aren't exactly that great) we're in trouble again.

We can say over and over we should move on from Hejda because the D needs to take a different direction but the reality of that is Hejda walking, not landing Martin/Ehrhoff and our best LHD next year is Nick Holden. Hejda is no saviour and shouldn't be such a need for our team but when your next best LHD are Holden and Stuart you probably shouldn't let Hejda go.

We could have still promised him a contract this summer and traded him to a playoff team. Buffalo did it with Matt Moulson. And even if he signed somewhere else, it wouldn't be the end of the world.

I don't get the idea if rather having a 37-year old Hejda than a 3rd round pick. Unless you are a contender. That's a strange idea.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

We could have still promised him a contract this summer and traded him to a playoff team. Buffalo did it with Matt Moulson. And even if he signed somewhere else, it wouldn't be the end of the world.

I don't get the idea if rather having a 37-year old Hejda than a 3rd round pick. Unless you are a contender. That's a strange idea.

You cant keep promises like that. Why would Hejda agree to sign a hometown discount contract in the summer but to have to pack up his family and live somewhere else for the next few months. He's old and doesn't want to move around. Moulson didn't do Buffalo any favours by agreeing to that contract. He didn't take a discount.

Unless you are a contender. That's a strange idea

Quotes like this get said around here a lot but I don't understand. People either want to win a stanley cup or focus on the future completely. It's one or the other on here.

Why cant we just keep him around because he's our best LHD and it helps us win games. We may not be the favorite to win the Stanley Cup but that doesn't mean we should make the worst defense in the league even worse. The organization wants to win games. (most) fans want to win games. The players want to win games. Jan Hejda is going to help that happen a lot more this year and next than a 3rd round pick.

 

[AslanRH]

You cant keep promises like that. Why would Hejda agree to sign a hometown discount contract in the summer but to have to pack up his family and live somewhere else for the next few months. He's old and doesn't want to move around. Moulson didn't do Buffalo any favours by agreeing to that contract. He didn't take a discount.


Quotes like this get said around here a lot but I don't understand. People either want to win a stanley cup or focus on the future completely. It's one or the other on here.

Why cant we just keep him around because he's our best LHD and it helps us win games. We may not be the favorite to win the Stanley Cup but that doesn't mean we should make the worst defense in the league even worse. The organization wants to win games. (most) fans want to win games. The players want to win games. Jan Hejda is going to help that happen a lot more this year and next than a 3rd round pick.

Very well stated.

Many also forget that Sakic is showing to be a "players" GM.

Even made a point early on in the Stastny saga to mention that he had earned the right to explore free agency and that he knew there was a risk to that from an organizational standpoint.

He gave Stuart an early extension, which at the time many argued was so that Stuart would feel a sense of security for him and his family, rather than being concerned about possibly having to move again in a year.

When a veteran like Hejda makes a point to say he doesn't want to leave and unless someone came to Sakic with what many on here would call an "overpay", it doesn't fit what appears to be Sakic's early M.O.

He seems to understand that since the Avs are not a "big budget" team that can usually outbid other teams, or absorb mistakes like Clarkson/Horton, that having good player relations/respect will likely serve as a draw for free agents when we need them most.

 

[tucker3434]

Very well stated.

Many also forget that Sakic is showing to be a "players" GM.

Even made a point early on in the Stastny saga to mention that he had earned the right to explore free agency and that he knew there was a risk to that from an organizational standpoint.

He gave Stuart an early extension, which at the time many argued was so that Stuart would feel a sense of security for him and his family, rather than being concerned about possibly having to move again in a year.

When a veteran like Hejda makes a point to say he doesn't want to leave and unless someone came to Sakic with what many on here would call an "overpay", it doesn't fit what appears to be Sakic's early M.O.

He seems to understand that since the Avs are not a "big budget" team that can usually outbid other teams, or absorb mistakes like Clarkson/Horton, that having good player relations/respect will likely serve as a draw for free agents when we need them most.

Yeah, I doubt we'll ever be looking to absorb a LTIR salary, but I do think Roy and Sakic will be given the green light to bid on big UFA's. They put bids on Niskanen and Orpik last year. I think(hope) the only thing that kept us from winning the bid was the stupid price, not that we had limits on the money.

But I do agree it helps to have a players GM. I love Denver. It's a fantastic city. but if a UFA has the same offer from LA, NYR, and the Avs, Colorado might be a bit of a tougher sell. A guy like Sakic could tip the scales in our favor a bit better than a Greg Sherman could.

 

[tigervixxxen]

I agree on the "players GM" thing too. I can see arguments why that's not a good idea but it goes back to what I said the other day that they are just going to do things in a different way than what the conventional thinking is.

 

[HoseEmDown]

You cant keep promises like that. Why would Hejda agree to sign a hometown discount contract in the summer but to have to pack up his family and live somewhere else for the next few months. He's old and doesn't want to move around. Moulson didn't do Buffalo any favours by agreeing to that contract. He didn't take a discount.


Quotes like this get said around here a lot but I don't understand. People either want to win a stanley cup or focus on the future completely. It's one or the other on here.

Why cant we just keep him around because he's our best LHD and it helps us win games. We may not be the favorite to win the Stanley Cup but that doesn't mean we should make the worst defense in the league even worse. The organization wants to win games. (most) fans want to win games. The players want to win games. Jan Hejda is going to help that happen a lot more this year and next than a 3rd round pick.

The Avs play 10 of the final 18 on the road down the stretch, Hejda will be away from his family more then he'll be close to them. He wouldn't have to move them as he can spend the next two months in a hotel like he's on a road trip and they can stay here.

Before last night's game they were 10 points out of a wild card spot, they made no moves to try to go for it now so why not try to obtain some assets? With Briere's playoff history I don't know how they couldn't eat 50% and get anything for him. Jokinen hasn't been to the playoffs much yet was traded to a contender. If you know you aren't making the playoffs selling UFA's off and giving young players a look is what you're supposed to do, you need to maximize your assets and see what you have in prospects. With Lake Erie not making the playoffs the kids down there aren't playing meaningful games so give a few a cup of coffee to see if they're NHL caliber and if not move on from them.

 

[AllAboutAvs]

I don't have an issue with that. I'm not down on every move Sakic has made as a GM - I think he's executed some moves that are quite positive.

I just believe he doesn't have a clue what to do with valuable (upcoming) UFAs on his roster.

But maybe he does. What if we can't land a UFA dman this summer and we are successful in re-signing ROR? What then? We end up with an even worst D lineup. Or should they overpay in FA and end up not being able to re-sign some of their core? Will you guys be happy with that then? I certainly think not.

You are one of the stronger voices out here about not going into a season gambling on your prospects (in this case Bigras and Siemens) being ready. However you are willing to let Sakic gamble on going into next season without a safety net. i don't understand this. Everybody agree we need two top-4 dmen. We need to get those through FA and/or ROR trade. If they fail on doing that, Hejda is that safety net.

Sounds to me like a good thing a GM should do.