Rumor: In-season Proposals, Rumors, Free Agents & Roster Moves (related topics) L

[bromando]

I see him as a future #3. The term bust to me is highly variable to what was expected of the player when he came out. For instance, in the 2005 draft Benoit Pouliot was a top 5 pick that was expected to be a game changing forward when he really is just a 2nd/3rd line tweener. Where as somebody like Downie is a similar tweener, but was a later pick so I wouldn't consider him a bust.

Larsson was said to be a franchise defensemen when the draft came around, for him to only end up as a middle pairing defender is a bust IMO... but he still can be a solid player in the NHL.

I don't think the teams trading for him would have a significantly better pick. No team in the top 10-15 is going to send their 1st to New Jersey for Larsson (well I shouldn't put anything past Edmonton). The teams looking at him for a project will be in that 15-25 range, which isn't a huge difference in value. The plus would be small with any team as Larsson's value isn't much higher than a mid 1st as it sits. Many teams will value a defensemen that they can mold (ie no bad professional habits yet and more years under control) like McKeown than a reclamation project like Larsson. Right or wrong that is the way these things usually work.

Well I would be down to get him for a first and a small + if that's possible. I can't see that being worth it to NJ personally.

 

[InjuredChoker]

I tend to doubt it, but no way Larsson goes to a division rival in Carolina.

ah yes, forgot that.

would make sense for DET though. he's swedish, RH, swedish, would help sooner when zetterberg and datsyuk still have it, swedish, fairly weak draft and wings biggest need is player like larsson or youngish very high upside center, swedish etc.

 

[henchman21]

ah yes, forgot that.

would make sense for DET though. he's swedish, RH, swedish, would help sooner when zetterberg and datsyuk still have it, swedish, fairly weak draft and wings biggest need is player like larsson or youngish very high upside center, swedish etc.

I could see Detroit making a deal, but I don't think they end up in the bottom half. Their pick will be around ~17 IMO. Also could depend on if Lou wants to send him out of the east.

 

[InjuredChoker]

I could see Detroit making a deal, but I don't think they end up in the bottom half. Their pick will be around ~17 IMO. Also could depend on if Lou wants to send him out of the east.

yeah that's likely what it comes down to.

i don't think lou should trade him yet though. kid just turned 21 few months ago. patience.

and i though he looked pretty good in the games i catched before he was injured. he and gelinas made their best pairing imo.

 

[Drury_Sakic]

I read somewhere on NJ.com or something that Stastny should be traded for Larsson + Volchenkov. Idk about you but I think they could get more than a first and a meh prospect for those two... considering the one is potential #1 and the other is an NHL dman at least.

I'll try to find the article.

Make that Andy Greene vs. Volchenkov and you have a bases of a deal.....

Avs Get:
Greene
Larsson
Conditional 2nd Round Pick 2015 (If Stastny re-signs)

NJD:
Stastny
Benoit
Conditional 3rd Round Pick 2015 (If Stastny re-signs)

(much less seriously)

You then trade Barrie, Wilson, Millan, Hishon, 2014 1st, 2014 2nd, Conditional 2015 1st (if Moulson re-signs) at the deadline to bring in Matt Moulson and Christan Ehrhoff from Buffalo. (probably costs more....but whatever)

O'Reilly-Duchene-McGinn
Lando-Mac-Tanguay
Moulson-Mitchell-PAP
McLeod-Cliché-Bords

Hejda-Johnson
Ehrhoff-Guenin
Greene-Larsson

Depending on how the Avs feel about Bigras and/or Siemens going into the summer, you either let Hejda go or try to get him locked down for a 2 year deal at a reasonable price. If Moulson will sign for 5 mill or less per season, you lock him down, if not you walk away.



(much more seriously)

If you get a chance, I would personally try to bring in Ehrhoff if Buffalo is taking futures based offers for him.

 

[InjuredChoker]

^^^^^

devils get robbed so bad on that one.

imagine if both benoit and stastny walk. one of the worst deals since lockout.

 

[Freudian]

Devils are making some pretty strange decisions with their defenders this year. DeBoer has a lot of loyalty for the veterans.

Larsson hasn't been able to take the next step. He's got good size and poise but the skating is limiting him in a big way. I wouldn't say he's a bust. More like he's on the Luke Schenn path. There might not be enough there for him to stand out at the NHL level. But I think he should have a long career in the NHL as a #4-5 if he doesn't take the next step in a couple of years.

Larsson looked fine to me in the few games I saw with the Devils this year and Devils fans seem to be slightly upset he's not given a chance, so it might be more the coach than the player that's the big problem. Devils don't have a first round pick and Lou has loaded up on veterans again going for it, whatever 'it' is.

 

[Drury_Sakic]

All of the above said, I highly doubt the Avs trade Stastny. I personally think he will sign a six year deal with a limited NTC for that 5.5-6 mill per range and stay in Denver for the rest of his career.

The only way I see Stastny (more so his rights) traded is at the draft for a conditional pick as the Avs wait out O'Reilly to see what he does.

 

[Drury_Sakic]

^^^^^

devils get robbed so bad on that one.

imagine if both benoit and stastny walk. one of the worst deals since lockout.

No doubt, however the Devils have not had any problem throwing out way to much money at players lately, so I bet they have what it takes to keep Stastny around at least.

There are rumors out there that the Devils are ready to go all in this year for some strange reason....so it could happen.

And while the odds are good Larsson will become a better player than his early showings have indicated, I would hope he becomes the next Lidstrom of course, there is SOME chance he just becomes an average NHL defender.

 

[InjuredChoker]

imo part of the reason devils are going for 'it' is that they don't have that 1st rounder... lou didn't give up on 29th overall.. it would look pretty damn bad if he gave up top 5 pick.

so making playoffs is pretty big because of that. among other things, money, attendance, attracting UFAs, keeping schneider etc.

 

[hockeyfish]

Devils are making some pretty strange decisions with their defenders this year. DeBoer has a lot of loyalty for the veterans.

Larsson hasn't been able to take the next step. He's got good size and poise but the skating is limiting him in a big way. I wouldn't say he's a bust. More like he's on the Luke Schenn path. There might not be enough there for him to stand out at the NHL level. But I think he should have a long career in the NHL as a #4-5 if he doesn't take the next step in a couple of years.

Larsson looked fine to me in the few games I saw with the Devils this year and Devils fans seem to be slightly upset he's not given a chance, so it might be more the coach than the player that's the big problem. Devils don't have a first round pick and Lou has loaded up on veterans again going for it, whatever 'it' is.

Not disagreeing, but wasn't Larsson one of the best skaters out of that draft.

Edit* I've got top be thinking of someone else.

 

[henchman21]

Not disagreeing, but wasn't Larsson one of the best skaters out of that draft.

He was thought to be anyways. I think he was directed to bulk up and was one of those players that added strength and bulk for the sake of adding strength and bulk. Over next summer he should slim down a bit and have more targeted strength training it would improve his game dramatically.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

I hope Roy buys Lou dinner first before... you know.

 

[Gaks*]

Make that Andy Greene vs. Volchenkov and you have a bases of a deal.....

Avs Get:
Greene
Larsson
Conditional 2nd Round Pick 2015 (If Stastny re-signs)

NJD:
Stastny
Benoit
Conditional 3rd Round Pick 2015 (If Stastny re-signs)

(much less seriously)

You then trade Barrie, Wilson, Millan, Hishon, 2014 1st, 2014 2nd, Conditional 2015 1st (if Moulson re-signs) at the deadline to bring in Matt Moulson and Christan Ehrhoff from Buffalo. (probably costs more....but whatever)

O'Reilly-Duchene-McGinn
Lando-Mac-Tanguay
Moulson-Mitchell-PAP
McLeod-Cliché-Bords

Hejda-Johnson
Ehrhoff-Guenin
Greene-Larsson

Depending on how the Avs feel about Bigras and/or Siemens going into the summer, you either let Hejda go or try to get him locked down for a 2 year deal at a reasonable price. If Moulson will sign for 5 mill or less per season, you lock him down, if not you walk away.



(much more seriously)

If you get a chance, I would personally try to bring in Ehrhoff if Buffalo is taking futures based offers for him.

I doubt that's close to enough. Not to mention cap/future prospects. Every contender needs kids on their first contract providing great play on the cheap. i.e. Tarasenko, Schwartz, Saad, Shaw, Silfverberg, Lindholm. We would have a great team that we couldn't afford due to lack of futures.

You think we could get Tarasenko for ROR? Sure. The value is there. But no way STL does it because they need to keep their young guys to stay under the cap and still contend.

Most I could give up future wise is a one 1st, one goalie prospect, one d prospect, one o prospect.

So whatever we can get for say

Elliott, Boss, Sami, 1st + 1 roster forward. Probably in at least two to three different trades lol.

 

[Drury_Sakic]

Summer of 2014

FORWARDS
Ryan O'Reilly ($6.000m) / Matt Duchene ($6.000m) / Jamie McGinn ($3.000m)
Gabriel Landeskog ($5.571m) / Nathan MacKinnon ($0.925m) / Alex Tanguay ($3.500m)
Matt Moulson ($5.000m) / John Mitchell ($2.500m) / P-A Parenteau ($4.000m)
Cody McLeod ($1.150m) / Maxime Talbot ($1.750m) / Patrick Bordeleau ($1.000m)
Marc-Andre Cliche ($0.700m)
Brad Malone ($0.900m)

DEFENSEMEN
Jan Hejda ($3.250m) / Erik Johnson ($3.750m)
Christian Ehrhoff ($4.000m) / Nate Guenin ($0.800m)
Andy Greene ($3.000m) / Adam Larsson ($1.500m)
Nick Holden ($0.600m)

GOALTENDERS
Semyon Varlamov ($5.500m)
Jean-Sebastien Giguere ($1.500m)

BUYOUTS
Greg Zanon ($0.750m)

SALARY CAP: $71,100,000; CAP PAYROLL: $66,646,429; BONUSES: $2,850,000
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $4,453,571

Still leaves a good deal of space for injuries or if Varly, Moulson, or O'Reilly take a bit more cash to keep around.

Summer of 2015
As for the future, in one more year Hejda comes off the books and is probably not retained, as he is replaced by Siemens or Bigras. Greene is the only major UFA in one year, probably takes a 500k-1mill raise to keep him. 750k comes off the books from the Zanon buyout.

Summer of 2016
Tanguay's contract is done in two seasons. Mac, Johnson, PAP, and potentially McGinn and Larsson are the guys you are looking at 2 years out as needing to be signed depending on how you term McGinn and Larsson's contracts, ideally you get them to sign 3-4 year deals now to avoid them being up so you just have Mac, Johnson, and PAP to deal with 2 years from now. I would presume the cap goes up by 8-10 million at least over that span, which gives you the cash to re-sign Johnson and Mac. PAP might be the cap casualty at that time, which would be fine. Could also trade McGinn or Moulson at this point to keep PAP. Might be able to make it all work depending on cap growth. Also probably looking for a righty D man at this point due to Guenin being let go, presumably a cheaper bottom pairing one as Larsson steps up to the 2nd unit.

Summer of 2017
3 years out you are looking at McGinn (if he is kept over PAP) and Larsson if you sign them right this summer. Probably also looking at a middle-tier contract for Siemens or Bigras depending on which develops best. In a worst case, you walk away/trade McGinn presuming the Avs have developed another depth forward by that point if Larsson has developed to the point of earning a big deal.

So long story short, unless the Avs really have to bend to Varly or O'Reilly in the off-season, that roster would work.

 

[bohlmeister]

FORWARDS
Ryan O'Reilly ($6.000m) / Matt Duchene ($6.000m) / Jamie McGinn ($3.000m)
Gabriel Landeskog ($5.571m) / Nathan MacKinnon ($0.925m) / Alex Tanguay ($3.500m)
Matt Moulson ($5.000m) / John Mitchell ($2.500m) / P-A Parenteau ($4.000m)
Cody McLeod ($1.150m) / Maxime Talbot ($1.750m) / Patrick Bordeleau ($1.000m)
Marc-Andre Cliche ($0.700m)
Brad Malone ($0.900m)

DEFENSEMEN
Jan Hejda ($3.250m) / Erik Johnson ($3.750m)
Christian Ehrhoff ($4.000m) / Nate Guenin ($0.800m)
Andy Greene ($3.000m) / Adam Larsson ($1.500m)
Nick Holden ($0.600m)

GOALTENDERS
Semyon Varlamov ($5.500m)
Jean-Sebastien Giguere ($1.500m)

BUYOUTS
Greg Zanon ($0.750m)

SALARY CAP: $71,100,000; CAP PAYROLL: $66,646,429; BONUSES: $2,850,000
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $4,453,571

Still leaves a good deal of space for injuries or if Varly, Moulson, or O'Reilly take a bit more cash to keep around.

As for the future, in one more year Hejda comes off the books and is probably not retained, as he is replaced by Siemens or Bigras. Tanguay's contract is done in two seasons. Greene needs to be re-signed after next year. Mac, Johnson, PAP, and potentially McGinn and Larsson are the guys you are looking at 2 years out as needing to be signed depending on how you term McGinn and Larsson's contracts, ideally you get them to sign 3-4 year deals now to avoid them being up so you just have Mac, Johnson, and PAP to deal with 2 years from now. I would presume the cap goes up by 8-10 million at least over that span, which gives you the cash to re-sign Johnson and Mac. PAP might be the cap casualty at that time, which would be fine.

As far as younger cheap guys go, Bigras and Siemens are those guys on D, plus Roy has shown skill in finding decent cheap depth guys. In the draft you continue to look for BPA of course, but you tilt towards 2-way forwards to round out the bottom half of the roster.

So long story short, unless the Avs really have to bend to Varly or O'Reilly in the off-season, that roster would work.

If Stastny is gone, I would guess we will see ROR move back to centering that Landeskog line. Neither Duchene or Mac can take on the tough minutes Stastny has played this season. ROR should be able to. Keeping ROR over Stastny might give us more flexibility as he has been effective on the wing all season.

 

[CobraAcesS]

FORWARDS
Ryan O'Reilly ($6.000m) / Matt Duchene ($6.000m) / Jamie McGinn ($3.000m)
Gabriel Landeskog ($5.571m) / Nathan MacKinnon ($0.925m) / Alex Tanguay ($3.500m)
Matt Moulson ($5.000m) / John Mitchell ($2.500m) / P-A Parenteau ($4.000m)
Cody McLeod ($1.150m) / Maxime Talbot ($1.750m) / Patrick Bordeleau ($1.000m)
Marc-Andre Cliche ($0.700m)
Brad Malone ($0.900m)

DEFENSEMEN
Jan Hejda ($3.250m) / Erik Johnson ($3.750m)
Christian Ehrhoff ($4.000m) / Nate Guenin ($0.800m)
Andy Greene ($3.000m) / Adam Larsson ($1.500m)
Nick Holden ($0.600m)

GOALTENDERS
Semyon Varlamov ($5.500m)
Jean-Sebastien Giguere ($1.500m)

BUYOUTS
Greg Zanon ($0.750m)

SALARY CAP: $71,100,000; CAP PAYROLL: $66,646,429; BONUSES: $2,850,000
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $4,453,571

I'm just curious.... Have you guys seen how NJ fans react to weak trade proposals for Andy Greene? You want them to trade us a young RFA with top end potential, and a top 4 guy signed for one more year for two UFAs, AND give us the better end of 2nd/3rd round conditional picks?

 

[tigervixxxen]

Is Larsson still in his exile in Albany?

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

I'm just curious.... Have you guys seen how NJ fans react to weak trade proposals for Andy Greene? You want them to trade us a young RFA with top end potential, and a top 4 guy signed for one more year for two UFAs, AND give us the better end of 2nd/3rd round conditional picks?

Funny right.... imagine if a leaf fan offered something similar to the avs.

 

[Drury_Sakic]

I'm just curious.... Have you guys seen how NJ fans react to weak trade proposals for Andy Greene? You want them to trade us a young RFA with top end potential, and a top 4 guy signed for one more year for two UFAs, AND give us the better end of 2nd/3rd round conditional picks?

Bah, I actually miss-wrote the draft pick bit. Meant it the other way around, if Stastny is NOT re-signed. But yeah, Lou would have to be at least slightly intoxicated to do the deal.

 

[Drury_Sakic]

Funny right.... imagine if a leaf fan offered something similar to the avs.

No different than the Gardiner + Franzon for Stastny proposals really, which Avs fans laugh off. The Toronto media hype makes those two more equal to the actual value of Greene and Larsson. (yes, I know Greene and Larsson are far more valuable than Gardiner + Franzon)

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

No different than the Gardiner + Franzon for Stastny proposals really, which Avs fans laugh off.

That's kinda the point no?

 

[AslanRH]

Larsson is 1 yr younger than Barrie and at the same term of his ELC. I think going "bust" on Larsson is way too premature since there is still so much upside on this board for Barrie.

Then again, if I'm Sakic/Roy, I'm playing that "Larsson has underperformed" card all day long.

EJ-Larsson-Barrie/Elliott-Guenin on the right side is very solid moving forward for the next 3-5 years.

The Left side is still a mystery, but there seems to be much more LH options out there and many with some Veteran experience.

 

[AvsRobin]

No different than the Gardiner + Franzon for Stastny proposals really, which Avs fans laugh off. The Toronto media hype makes those two more equal to the actual value of Greene and Larsson. (yes, I know Greene and Larsson are far more valuable than Gardiner + Franzon)

Gardiner AND Franson for pending UFA Stastny would be pretty fair in terms of value. Would probably help both teams pretty good too. We get two defenseman who can go into the lineup and kick two AHL-guys out of here and they get there center.

 

[Drury_Sakic]

That's kinda the point no?

Maybe?

I am not sure that is all that far off from the actual value of Stastny as an upcoming UFA in a super weak UFA class..at least both players perceived value.

It is not a deal I personally would do, however I think there are GMs in the league that in the right situation would do it. Maybe it is a laughable deal if you factor in the Avs are playing well and odds are good that Stastny re-signs...but if the Avs were a middling team and Stastny re-signing was in some doubt, it is not a completely bad base for a trade. (Leafs would probably have to toss in a forward to make this a real possibility)

Hell,

Leafs:
Stastny
Sarich

Avs:
Bolland
Franzon
Gardiner

is something I would at least consider if I was Avs management and Stastny re-signing was something slightly in doubt in my mind.