I'm sorry, but does this seem alittle bit hollow to anyone else

[psycho_dad*]

If Santa is from Finland it would explain Rudolph's red nose

True that

 

[psycho_dad*]

I don't understand this at all. When Canada and America send players over to their World Championship squads to play in the semis or the finals, would be be considered a hollow victory if a European team won? Fact is. Not every country can get the perks. Different tournaments, different rules.

Usually in those games all teams travel to one place in advance, get over the jetlag and get accustomed way before the tournament even starts. Now that is fair to all. But by no means this was a hollow victory by Canadians. They beat the opposition fair and square. It was a tough tournament, both semifinals and the final could have gone either way...great hockey for start of the hockey season!

 

[espo*]

Usually in those games all teams travel to one place in advance, get over the jetlag and get accustomed way before the tournament even starts. Now that is fair to all. But by no means this was a hollow victory by Canadians. They beat the opposition fair and square. It was a tough tournament, both semifinals and the final could have gone either way...great hockey for start of the hockey season!

Fair and reasonable.

 

[Cawz]

Usually in those games all teams travel to one place in advance, get over the jetlag and get accustomed way before the tournament even starts.

But the start times only changed by 6 hours (the Euro games started at 11am my time, and the NA games started at 5pm). That difference is the same differnce as a normal NHL season (afternoon games, east coast, west coast), so it shouldnt have made that much of a difference (it sure didnt seem so with the Finns and Czechs is the playoffs. They both outplayed their NA opposition).

 

[H/H]

It does'nt seem to matter under what circumstances or situations Canada wins, to some fans there is always an "angle" why they won.The tournament can be over in Europe, in North America or in the jungles of the rain forest and Canada did'nt deserve to win for some reason or another.Some fans just can't accept that their teams continue to lose to them because 9 times out of ten they are just better.Canada continues to win under any and all rules and in all countries but still to some fans they always say without fail..........it was'nt legitimate and it's hollow.It makes you wonder.

Yeah, throw the conspiracy theory out to delegitimize all complaints.

All I said is the refs were horrible and one sided in the game against the Czechs. It's a downright travesty that Canadian refs call a game featuring Canada, as I said, it would NEVER happen in any other sport on this level.

 

[chicpea*]

Look h/h, the World Cup of Hockey is an NHL sanctioned event, as you know. This means that all rules (sans 4 on 4 OT) are NHL and that the games will be reffed by NHL refs, I'm pretty sure. That's why Canadians were reffing the European games as well - though I'm not sure if you saw those if they weren't broadcast in the US. Also, if you go to the NHL.com officials page, you'll see where the bulk of refs originate from: Canada. Anyway, that's my theory, but I could be wrong.

 

[H/H]

I know all that. Still doesn't make it less of a travesty. NHL refs didn't have much trouble dealing with the International rules at the Olympics, so I don't the their european counterparts would have problems with the NHL rules.

And btw, I'm not american either.

 

[BeerTuzzi]

Regarding the jet lag. It is a 4-6 hour flight from Western Europe to Toronto. That's hardly any different from, for example, the Leafs flying to Vancouver. And when Vancouver beats the leafs no one claims that it is beacuse the leafs are suffering from jet lag. I don't see how the jet lag argument holds in this case as it surely doesn't hold in regular season NHL games...

 

[espo*]

Yeah, throw the conspiracy theory out to delegitimize all complaints.

All I said is the refs were horrible and one sided in the game against the Czechs. It's a downright travesty that Canadian refs call a game featuring Canada, as I said, it would NEVER happen in any other sport on this level.

Nice try.You were atempting to deligitimize Canada's win because (you)think the reffing was so one- sided that it prevented a Czech victory.You act like it's common knowledge that the reffing was bad when it isn't,that's your opinion and nothing more,i did'nt see any problem with the reffing and i have not heard one Czech player or coach who had anything to say about that.I heard them say they felt they were the better team that night and outplayed Canada but bad reffing?Not a word!!It's you who has the big problem with it and you said without it Canada would'nt have won.If that's not a conspiracy theory (based only on your opinion mind you) then i don't know what is.I'm fine with you saying Canadian refs should'nt be used as i think that is valid on face value but i disagree strongly they showed any bias at all,affected the game negatively,(though i could say they had a hand in one Czech goal ) and were the reason Canada won.As i mentioned in my last post,with some fans Canada could win 5-0 and they would say Canada won because of dirty tricks or something and it's silly.World cup champs,world championship,olympic champs.Pal,tha'ts an awful lot of cheating and luck would'nt you say?

 

[H/H]

Please, again.

In a period where the Czechs dominated, Draper got a goal because of a blatant non call on a canadian penalty. If that isn't "affecting the game negatively" what is? And it wasn't exactly something minor either, they'd call that even in the Stanley Cup finals.

I'm not saying the refs are in some evil conspiracy, I'm simply saying that they can't take the pressure of actually calling the penalty at that point, when it's Canada playing in a Canadian arena in an extremely important game. They're just too afraid of "deciding the game".

As i mentioned in my last post,with some fans Canada could win 5-0 and they would say Canada won because of dirty tricks or something and it's silly.World cup champs,world championship,olympic champs.Pal,tha'ts an awful lot of cheating and luck would'nt you say?

I never said this, so why are you ranting this to me?

 

[Breck Av]

3. Canada and America are forced to play European style at the World Championships every year. Big deal. They adapt or lose. The World Cup has never been hosted in North America and just this year, Halifax/Quebec City won the right to host it. A breakthrough, finally.

Actually, as stv11 alluded to in post #41, the 1962 World Championship was held in Colorado Springs, Colorado (not Denver). It was played at the Broadmoor World Arena, which had Olympic size ice and was home to the NCAA Colorado College Tigers.

It's nice the World Championship will be back in North America, which probably can still be considered a breakthrough.

 

[espo*]

Please, again.

In a period where the Czechs dominated, Draper got a goal because of a blatant non call on a canadian penalty. If that isn't "affecting the game negatively" what is? And it wasn't exactly something minor either, they'd call that even in the Stanley Cup finals.

I'm not saying the refs are in some evil conspiracy, I'm simply saying that they can't take the pressure of actually calling the penalty at that point, when it's Canada playing in a Canadian arena in an extremely important game. They're just too afraid of "deciding the game".

I never said this, so why are you ranting this to me?

I did'nt think i was ranting,you were making an argument and i was making an argument.If you think Canada won because of reffing there is nothing i can do about it and i'll have to retire out of this debate i guess.Some people still think Elvis is actually alive too,you can think as you wish eventhough many disagree.We won and we deserved to win.

 

[H/H]

I did'nt think i was ranting,you were making an argument and i was making an argument.If you think Canada won because of reffing there is nothing i can do about it and i'll have to retire out of this debate i guess.Some people still think Elvis is actually alive too,you can think as you wish eventhough many disagree.

You were trying to shrug off what I said with the "Some people will always say that..." blah blah blah. I didn't. I was strictly talking about that
particular game. From neutral eyes, it's pretty clear the reffing was one sided. Even if you take out the national element. If one team is playing creative hockey while the other one plays outside the rules to disrupt the other teams creativity, you don't cater to the destructive team. I could understand if they swallowed the whistles if both teams were playing a rough'n'tough game, but fact of the matter here is that the Czechs were playing offensively and creating something and Canada did several blatant penalties that weren't called and one of those uncalled penalties led to a goal for Canada.

We won and we deserved to win

Well, I certainly hope so. Didn't look it judging from that game, but Canada certainly was the better team in all the other games.

 

[Johnny]

If one team is playing creative hockey while the other one plays outside the rules to disrupt the other teams creativity, you don't cater to the destructive team.
QUOTE]

So clogging up the neutral zone, and setting picks right, left and center is now creative hockey is it.

 

[H/H]

So clogging up the neutral zone, and setting picks right, left and center is now creative hockey is it.

Pfft, like Canada was even in the neutral zone in the third period

And setting picks isn't really illegal

 

[H/H]

I'd like to point out, since it seems unclear to you people, that it's not particularly the fact that it's Canada that makes me upset, it's the fact that it happens at all. I would feel exactly the same if it was Finland, Russia, Czech Republic or the Slovaks. Not the swedes though. Then I would probably just ignore and deny. Maybe like some people are doing now

 

[Johnny]

Pfft, like Canada was even in the neutral zone in the third period

And setting picks isn't really illegal

The czechs game revolved around clogging up the neutral zone and forcing turnovers.... Canada played into their hands for much of that game trying to force plays through the neutral zone that wern't there... The czechs were able to feed off Canadian mistakes, that what the trap is all about... They trapped, bottom line... Last time I checked traps aren't exactly what you call creative... the Czech's were creative perhaps once they gained the offensive zone, but they were also looking to shoot from anywhere...

Picks while are technically legal I find to be a cheap tactic nevertheless and are far from creative... The Czech first goal was a direct result of pick set, that did not allow the Canadian defender to get out and pick up the man. The czech were far from this perfect goody two-shoe team who was just looking to bring it back to the old school of free wheeling and dealing hockey. I dont think you are as objective as you say you are, but that just my opinion.

 

[ACC1224]

it's because the game was at the ACC that the NHL refs favoured the home team...happens all the time in that building according to most people here.

 

[H/H]

The czech were far from this perfect goody two-shoe team who was just looking to bring it back to the old school of free wheeling and dealing hockey. I dont think you are as objective as you say you are, but that just my opinion.

I never said they were. But the fact is they were dominating the period and Canada did about 3-4 extreme penalties in a row, that should without a doubt be called in any game, anywhere.

I'm exactly as objective as I say I am, and that's a fact. I think the question of objectivity lies within other posters.

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

Just pointing something out, in case it hasn't been already. Yes, Canada had home-ice advantage in this tournament, but watching the World Hockey Championships and the like, it's not often played in Canada and Canada is in the situation to travel half-way around the world. The World Cup of Hockey used to be called the Canada Cup, and was played on Canadian soil--it was a tournament inviting the best in the world to dethrone Canada on their turf. But it's not like there aren't other tournaments where Canada is at a disadvantage.

To answer the question, it doesn't seem hollow to me, because there's other tournaments and yes, the home team will always have the advantage. The fact that the World Cup was played with NHL rules favoured the US and Canadians possibly, true--but in the Olympics and whatnot, couldn't it be argued that the US and Canadians are the ones at the disadvantage?

No one tournament can please everyone, methinks.

~Canucklehead~

 

[H/H]

I actually don't give much for that disadvantage-advantage stuff. Almost all players were NHL players accustomed to small rinks and they have the same difficulty as Canadians adjusting to it in international games. That said, I don't really think they have as much difficulty adjusting to it as they say, it's just a good excuse to have if they feel a bit sleepy going into the first game.

So I don't think any team has any particular advantage or disadvantage when it comes to rinks sizes and if there is one it's minimal.

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

^That still leaves the point of other tournaments where Canada/US and other countries are the ones on foreign turf and at the disadvantage as far as travel and whatnot goes. To say this victory is hollow for Canada simply because they won it at home is somewhat petty, if you ask me, as Lord knows there's been other teams to win tournaments at home before.

~Canucklehead~

 

[Johnny]

I never said they were. But the fact is they were dominating the period and Canada did about 3-4 extreme penalties in a row, that should without a doubt be called in any game, anywhere.

I'm exactly as objective as I say I am, and that's a fact. I think the question of objectivity lies within other posters.

Nope, not in those exact words but it seemed to be what you were implying or portaying took place...

No denying there were some calls that could have very well been called on Canada, but the Czechs also got away with plenty themself...I specifically recall a Hamrlik cross check that went uncalled in the first... of course thats nothing new with Hamrlik in games that involve Canada in international play,*cough cough, Theo Fleury* ... If you think the Czech only made one illegal play the entire game, as the saying goes, and I hate to use such a recycled line, but I got a bridge to sell you...

 

[H/H]

Whatever you say won't change the fact that Draper's goal happened because of a blatant non call on a severe penalty, the third one in a short span of time. No other way around it. With the game looking like it did at that point, I think it's fair to say that goal saved them the game.

 

[Johnny]

Whatever you say won't change the fact that Draper's goal happened because of a blatant non call on a severe penalty, the third one in a short span of time. No other way around it. With the game looking like it did at that point, I think it's fair to say that goal saved them the game.

Oh well, **** happens, breaks always have been and always will be a part of the game... Breaks that work for or against you isn't something that just became a part of the game this past Saturday...

And I still say that call on Vinny which led to a pp czech goal was as weak as it gets, compared to some of the crap they let slide both ways, yes both ways... Clearly the ref was looking to even the pp's at one a piece.

anyways, the refs didn't cost the czech the game, they had opporunties to win it, just failed to make the most of their chances...

and Ill state just for the record, give me a game reffed the way it was on Saturday over some of the crap reffed games over in Europe any day of the week.