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91Retired said:
I bought in to the rebuild keeping Larkin but man was I wrong. We have good forwards but we lack a center that brings it together. I always gave him space for never having a team behind him, but the March collapse would not happen under a real team leader. And not only that it wasted a first round pick on the bait and switch season. Keeping Larkin has become one of the most costly aspects of the rebuild.

We need to sign some "already baked" UFA's. I get Yzerman's ideas of maybe someone like Mason Appleton just never found the right environment but the guy's career high was 36 points at 29 years old.

I give credit for Gibson paying off huge, but at some point we have to stop relying on hopefulness and reclamation projects and actually get good players. Mason Appleton was an awful signing from the start, not just in and of itself but a testament to a strategy riddled with problems.
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Appleton was part of a very good third line in Winnipeg, and I suspect Todd has been in Yzerman's ear about how the team needs to become tougher to play against. Yzerman echoed that in the previous season's end of year presser.

But yeah, we really need to move on from adding guys in their late 20s in a futile attempt to build around the Larkin core. I get that no one wants to hear that, but this team isn't going to out score teams, and outside of a few guys, they're soft as baby shit. That is the real mushy middle. This core is going to fail when March rolls around and other teams start to fight for playoff position.

You can hope things will change, but when you've seen the same thing happen for four years running, it might just be time to stop banging your head against the wall and choose another direction.

Everyone is fed up with this shit.
 
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Run the Jewels said:
It's nice to see Max Bultman echo what I've been saying: we need a franchise forward.



There's one potential answer, and fortunately it presents itself next summer.
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"the Red Wings are likely to be left hoping for major internal improvements next season."

Nice! Youth movement on it's way. And forward add via free agency is most likely McCarron/Greer-type. Easier to sell for the fans and media than rebuilding the rebuild. If they fail they a chance to hunt that forward from the draft but if they succeed, then kid or 2 has really stepped up.
 
Run the Jewels said:
But yeah, we really need to move on from adding guys in their late 20s in a futile attempt to build around the Larkin core. I get that no one wants to hear that, but this team isn't going to out score teams, and outside of a few guys, they're soft as baby shit. That is the real mushy middle. This core is going to fail when March rolls around and other teams start to fight for playoff position.
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I don't think the ages mean we are building around Larkin core. UFAs are just same aged than him.

UFAs are get for free, no assets lost.

Of course, it would not hurt to trade for a younger player, but then you are gonna pay it with assets. UFAs at 26-30 range are very valuable additions.
 
SantosHalper said:
"the Red Wings are likely to be left hoping for major internal improvements next season."

Nice! Youth movement on it's way. And forward add via free agency is most likely McCarron/Greer-type. Easier to sell for the fans and media than rebuilding the rebuild. If they fail they a chance to hunt that forward from the draft but if they succeed, then kid or 2 has really stepped up.
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I'm fully supportive of playing the kids and trading pretty much any of the impending UFAs. There's a strong core of guys who are 19-25. Shoot your shot at next year's draft to get that top line center.

That's a legit, proven strategy. No guarantees of course, but it's an actual plan.
 
As much as it would be nice to make the playoffs this team is doing 0 if they get there anyway, to me its a win win. Put the kids in charge, if they flop win the lottery, if they rise to the occasion then good continue.

The continual signing of mediocrity is just driving me nuts, commit to the kids or let's just throw it in at this point.
 
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Perhaps trading Larkin, Debrincat, Faulk, Chiarot, and Gibson for the best young prospects possible and first round picks for this year and next is the way to go. Play the kids next year and see where you finish. The Wings could walk away with several good pieces that could rejuvenate the rebuild?
 
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USAHockey97 said:
Perhaps trading Larkin, Debrincat, Faulk, Chiarot, and Gibson for the best young prospects possible and first round picks for this year and next is the way to go. Play the kids next year and see where you finish. The Wings could walk away with several good pieces that could rejuvenate the rebuild?
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That path largely depends on DeBrincat. If he's not signed to an extension this summer, I do think you need to seriously consider moving him. You can't lose him for nothing if that's the direction of travel.

If you trade DeBrincat this summer, that influences whether Kane extends IMO. Regardless of whether DeBrincat gets moved I would trade Gibson and Faulk, and likely Copp as well. They will all return good draft capital, while DeBrincat should return multiple draft picks and a good prospect.

Panarin returned the best prospect in the LA Kings prospect pool, which on the one hand isn't saying much, but the Rags did a terrible job negotiating that deal and still got a young power forward who has a 119 point season in the OHL.

In this case if DeBrincat isn't going to extend you give yourself a shot at a bottom 5 finish in a draft that is loaded with centers. If that happens the entire rebuild likely sits on who your NA scouts select unless you decide Milan Sunstrom is your guy. Wheeler currently has him as a Tier 2 guy, but says 'he looks like the real deal to me'.

I'm a broken record, but I don't think you want Kris Draper determining the fate of this rebuild. The track record is the track record, and it's not good.

If things somehow work out, your top line center could be a guy like Desnoyers or McQueen from the Larkin trade.
Your 2C could be the guy you draft in 2027
Kasper
Finnie

That would have the potential to be a good group of centers who are between the ages of 18-22.
 
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Winger98 said:
If Yzerman can pull desnoyer or McQueen he's probably done better than expected.
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Utah is ridiculously stacked...they could include Desnoyers, But and the 20th and still not have touched their top 2 prospects(simashev and iginla) nor any of their core young roster players...
 
Winger98 said:
If Yzerman can pull desnoyer or McQueen he's probably done better than expected.
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I’m not even super sold on McQueen.

Part of me thinks you can squint your eyes and see Tage Thompson, but I don’t know. He’s never really been able to put it together like I would think so far.

You’d have to trust your scouts (pro) there, and yeah can’t think of anyone we have added that really took off like this since Yzerman has been here.
 
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Frk It said:
I’m not even super sold on McQueen.

Part of me thinks you can squint your eyes and see Tage Thompson, but I don’t know. He’s never really been able to put it together like I would think so far.

You’d have to trust your scouts (pro) there, and yeah can’t think of anyone we have added that really took off like this since Yzerman has been here.
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Trust our pro scouts? Yikes. Larkin demanding out couple with Yzerman’s record 7 years missing playoffs as GM, among all his other moves, tend to make me think Yzerman is more the issue overall.
 
Frk It said:
I’m not even super sold on McQueen.

Part of me thinks you can squint your eyes and see Tage Thompson, but I don’t know. He’s never really been able to put it together like I would think so far.

You’d have to trust your scouts (pro) there, and yeah can’t think of anyone we have added that really took off like this since Yzerman has been here.
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Yea, he shouldn’t be the centrepiece of any deal at all. How many top 6 C’s are 6’5? Even going back a decade how many have there been? Couple that with the injury history and his numbers while good, aren’t exactly screaming a “can’t miss” player.
 
Larkin + Gibson to Florida
<>
Lundell
Luostarinen
9th overall

Cossa to Edmonton
<>
2nd round pick

9th overall + EDM 2nd + Danielson + Rasmussen to Vancouver
for
Pettersson

Sign Alex Tuch from UFA.
Extend Kane.
Send Compher away for future considerations.
Sign Bobrovsky from UFA for 1-year. :D

DeBrincat - Pettersson - Tuch
Luostarinen - Lundell - Raymond
MBN - Copp - Kane
Finnie - Kasper - Mazur
(Appleton)

Johansson - Seider
Edvinsson - Faulk
Chiarot - Sandin Pellikka/Anton Johansson
Wallinder - JBD

Bobrovsky
Postava
(Augustine)
 
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Henkka said:
Larkin + Gibson to Florida
<>
Lundell
Luostarinen
9th overall

Cossa to Edmonton
<>
2nd round pick

9th overall + EDM 2nd + Danielson + Rasmussen to Vancouver
for
Pettersson

Sign Alex Tuch from UFA.
Extend Kane.
Send Compher away for future considerations.
Sign Bobrovsky from UFA for 1-year. :D

DeBrincat - Pettersson - Tuch
Luostarinen - Lundell - Raymond
MBN - Copp - Kane
Finnie - Kasper - Mazur
(Appleton)

Johansson - Seider
Edvinsson - Faulk
Chiarot - Sandin Pellikka/Anton Johansson
Wallinder - JBD

Bobrovsky
Postava
(Augustine)
Click to expand...

9th Overall for EP, I think not. Florida isn't trading 9th overall and Lundell for Larkin. I don't even want to necessarily give a 1st for EP, with his current play and cap hit, he is not worth the potential top 10 pick.
 
Tank season

Larkin -> TBL, O'Reilly+Geekie+2 1st's
Cat - highest bidder 1st+center prospect
Ras+Apple -> late round picks
Sign Greer, 3x3
Sign Lomberg, 2x2
Sign Glendening, 1x1,5

MBN - Kasper - Ray
Finnie - Copp - Danielson
Lombardi - Compher - Geekie
Greer - Glendening - Mazur
Lomberg

Ed - Mo
AlJo - Faulk
Chiarot - ASP
JBD

Gibson
Postava

GR:
Bear - O'Reilly - Shine
Leonard - Dries - Kiiskinen
James - Becher - NDN
FA - Draper - FA

Lagesson - AnJo
Buium - FA
Truscott - Christensen
Kannok Leipert

Augustine
FA
 
Oddbob said:
Florida isn't trading 9th overall and Lundell for Larkin. I don't even want to necessarily give a 1st for EP, with his current play and cap hit, he is not worth the potential top 10 pick.
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Why are people talking about Lundell like he’s this super valuable part of the equation? He is a good center but he had quite a bit of opportunity this season and didn’t produce like a high tier 2C like Larkin would be on that team. And Larkin makes him redundant in this trade. I’d want him just because we have to roll the dice on a center but the 9OA for Bjorck would be the goal there, no?

EP can be had presumably for cheaper at a full cap hit if we are trying to hit the cap floor.
 
Oddbob said:
9th Overall for EP, I think not. Florida isn't trading 9th overall and Lundell for Larkin. I don't even want to necessarily give a 1st for EP, with his current play and cap hit, he is not worth the potential top 10 pick.
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Simple answer...Florida not likely to run barkov, Larkin, Bennett, Lundell and Verhaghe(sp) down the middle or waste the cap in that fashion...
 
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Waldorf said:
Why are people talking about Lundell like he’s this super valuable part of the equation? He is a good center but he had quite a bit of opportunity this season and didn’t produce like a high tier 2C like Larkin would be on that team. And Larkin makes him redundant in this trade. I’d want him just because we have to roll the dice on a center but the 9OA for Bjorck would be the goal there, no?

EP can be had presumably for cheaper at a full cap hit if we are trying to hit the cap floor.
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I don't value him that highly, just going how Panther fans talk about him, seems they wouldn't move him and a high pick. I don't want Lundell as the main piece back.
 
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Oddbob said:
I don't value him that highly, just going how Panther fans talk about him, seems they wouldn't move him and a high pick. I don't want Lundell as the main piece back.
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Yeah he’s a good five on five player but he plays on a significantly better team and when he had the 1C opportunity his numbers weren’t really that much better. I know folks love to pump the tires of their player but he’s a respectable center, nothing more or less.
 
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