If the Rangers miss the playoff should Quinn be back?

[The Crypto Guy]

Hes back 95 percent. Team has vastly improved and if u beat a team 4 in a row they r good..nj devils opponent. No reason not to bring him back.

lol what?

 

[smoneil]

I agree with you on Chytil but what is that role? Mika and even Strome are really going to the extent that cutting their time for him seems questionable, especially while the playoffs are still somewhat possible though a very long shot.

I think the hardest part of his job to navigate is the toi. The fact is, there are too many players who are either too good not to play top minutes now or too important to the future not to be given ample room to grow. Half the forwards have to be bottom 6 toi players but there are only 3 guys on the team that really are that.

The most obvious one to me is his new-ish notion of just letting PP1 play the full 2 minutes. I saw a stat a few weeks ago (so not sure if it is still 100% true) that PP1 hadn't scored a single goal in he final 45 seconds of a PP. It baffles me why he wouldn't have a regular second unit to get guys like Chytil, Buch, and the kids out there more regularly. I also think they need to make a decision about their top 2 centers. Chytil is too good to be a 13 minute 3rd/4th line center. If they aren't going to play their third line, then they need to make a choice about which two centers are going to be here long term between Zib, Strome, and Chytil. That's an easy choice to me, particularly after factoring in age and cap hits, but Gorton seems to want to fiddle while his only young C is stuck in limbo. If they don't want to make a choice just yet, then I would split up Panarin and Strome, put out Laf/Zib/Buch, Panarin/Chytil/Kakko, and Kreider/Strome/Kravtsov as the top three lines and roll them evenly through the game, with a bump to one of the three if they are particularly on that night. If you ran those three lines like that and gave PP2 a consistent 45 seconds per penalty, than suddenly you have a clear top 9 getting similar minutes with one 4th line (rather than two top lines--one of which has fourth liners on the RW all season--and two bottom lines as far as minutes).

 

[smoneil]

Buchnevich was 23 when Quinn got here. He wasn't the complete player he is today. Yes, Mika and Strome are both older, but both improved considerably while Quinn was coach. Does he get no credit for that?

I honestly don't know, but even if he did, I wouldn't call it "development" in the same way that we talk about developing kids who are 18-21 years old.

As far as the credit he might get for the top six players, I'm torn because I keep going back to that issue of them playing the way that they want instead of how he tells them to play. Are they doing well because they are talented players doing their own thing and getting a ton of minutes in all situations? Or are they doing well because Quinn is doing something different from AV? I couldn't say definitively one way or another, but all of these players have had professional success before Quinn.

 

[Off Sides]

The most obvious one to me is his new-ish notion of just letting PP1 play the full 2 minutes. I saw a stat a few weeks ago (so not sure if it is still 100% true) that PP1 hadn't scored a single goal in he final 45 seconds of a PP. It baffles me why he wouldn't have a regular second unit to get guys like Chytil, Buch, and the kids out there more regularly. I also think they need to make a decision about their top 2 centers. Chytil is too good to be a 13 minute 3rd/4th line center. If they aren't going to play their third line, then they need to make a choice about which two centers are going to be here long term between Zib, Strome, and Chytil. That's an easy choice to me, particularly after factoring in age and cap hits, but Gorton seems to want to fiddle while his only young C is stuck in limbo. If they don't want to make a choice just yet, then I would split up Panarin and Strome, put out Laf/Zib/Buch, Panarin/Chytil/Kakko, and Kreider/Strome/Kravtsov as the top three lines and roll them evenly through the game, with a bump to one of the three if they are particularly on that night. If you ran those three lines like that and gave PP2 a consistent 45 seconds per penalty, than suddenly you have a clear top 9 getting similar minutes with one 4th line (rather than two top lines--one of which has fourth liners on the RW all season--and two bottom lines as far as minutes).

The easiest way would be for them to notice that one of the other lines is not playing well, and to give some shifts to Chytil's line in place of them.

If Chytil's line is not playing well they have no problem figuring out how to give them less shifts, yet that only works one direction.

 

[True Blue]

Hes back 95 percent. Team has vastly improved and if u beat a team 4 in a row they r good..nj devils opponent. No reason not to bring him back.

Can we try this in cohesive sentences please?

 

[True Blue]

The most obvious one to me is his new-ish notion of just letting PP1 play the full 2 minutes. I saw a stat a few weeks ago (so not sure if it is still 100% true) that PP1 hadn't scored a single goal in he final 45 seconds of a PP. It baffles me why he wouldn't have a regular second unit to get guys like Chytil, Buch, and the kids out there more regularly. I also think they need to make a decision about their top 2 centers. Chytil is too good to be a 13 minute 3rd/4th line center. If they aren't going to play their third line, then they need to make a choice about which two centers are going to be here long term between Zib, Strome, and Chytil. That's an easy choice to me, particularly after factoring in age and cap hits, but Gorton seems to want to fiddle while his only young C is stuck in limbo. If they don't want to make a choice just yet, then I would split up Panarin and Strome, put out Laf/Zib/Buch, Panarin/Chytil/Kakko, and Kreider/Strome/Kravtsov as the top three lines and roll them evenly through the game, with a bump to one of the three if they are particularly on that night. If you ran those three lines like that and gave PP2 a consistent 45 seconds per penalty, than suddenly you have a clear top 9 getting similar minutes with one 4th line (rather than two top lines--one of which has fourth liners on the RW all season--and two bottom lines as far as minutes).

There is no decision to be made with 6 games left and being 4 points out of a playoff spot. That is not about making a decision or not making one. This is about going all in for wins.

And if you believe that given the circumstances I just described that any coach from Bowman to Quinn would split up Panarin and Strome, you are smoking some serious crack.

 

[McRanger]

Buchnevich was 23 when Quinn got here. He wasn't the complete player he is today. Yes, Mika and Strome are both older, but both improved considerably while Quinn was coach. Does he get no credit for that?

He gets as much credit as every previous coach received for player improvement which is... some?

This whole insisting the coach get credit for something they have little control of beyond giving the player the opportunity to succeed is something relatively new.

 

[Tawnos]

This whole insisting the coach get credit for something they have little control of beyond giving the player the opportunity to succeed is something relatively new.

This seems like a really major misunderstanding of coaching. That's the way it works in video games, but not in real life. They don't have control over it, but the coach provides support and, well, coaching to all players regardless of age. And we're talking about players who had room to grow here. The concept also isn't relatively new. It's been a core piece of coaching for as long as organized sports have been a thing. Help all your players grow their games.

It's definitely possible, maybe even probable, that other coaches would've been able to get the same development out of those three guys... but Quinn is the one who has been doing it, so he's the guy who did it.

 

[GAGLine]

He gets as much credit as every previous coach received for player improvement which is... some?

This whole insisting the coach get credit for something they have little control of beyond giving the player the opportunity to succeed is something relatively new.

If people insist on blaming the coach for lack of development, it only seems fair to give him credit when players do develop.

 

[Rangers ftw]

I think what the Quinnbros (whatever that means) would tell you is, just giving a young player more ice time (that they don't deserve or didn't earn) doesn't mean that player is going to automatically score more points. Paint it however you want, Laff was not good, at all, to start the season. And that's ok. You're starting to see flashes of the player he can be. Truthfully, Quinn should have sat him for a few games earlier in the season, that's how bad he was. Kravtsov hasn't even played 15 NHL games yet, why are you sweating his production? He came here in the final month of the season where every game is huge and his done better than expected. We're talking about 18/19/20 year old kids playing in the best league in the world. On top of that, they're going against guys like Crosby, Malkin, Ovechkin, Backstrom, and Marchant every other night. Let them find their footing.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with teaching/demanding they learn how to play a complete game. Throwing kids out there who is in over his head or when the situation is too big for him is how you ruin a prospect. I have zero concerns about Laff, Kakko, and to a lesser extent Kravtsov. They're going to be very good for this team.

This. Let’s not be the Oilers. Don’t put prospects in positions they are not ready for and hand them ice time that is over their capacity. I don’t love Quinn but I think he’s done a pretty good job with the prospects since most of them have improved over the season.

 

[haveandare]

The most obvious one to me is his new-ish notion of just letting PP1 play the full 2 minutes. I saw a stat a few weeks ago (so not sure if it is still 100% true) that PP1 hadn't scored a single goal in he final 45 seconds of a PP. It baffles me why he wouldn't have a regular second unit to get guys like Chytil, Buch, and the kids out there more regularly. I also think they need to make a decision about their top 2 centers. Chytil is too good to be a 13 minute 3rd/4th line center. If they aren't going to play their third line, then they need to make a choice about which two centers are going to be here long term between Zib, Strome, and Chytil. That's an easy choice to me, particularly after factoring in age and cap hits, but Gorton seems to want to fiddle while his only young C is stuck in limbo. If they don't want to make a choice just yet, then I would split up Panarin and Strome, put out Laf/Zib/Buch, Panarin/Chytil/Kakko, and Kreider/Strome/Kravtsov as the top three lines and roll them evenly through the game, with a bump to one of the three if they are particularly on that night. If you ran those three lines like that and gave PP2 a consistent 45 seconds per penalty, than suddenly you have a clear top 9 getting similar minutes with one 4th line (rather than two top lines--one of which has fourth liners on the RW all season--and two bottom lines as far as minutes).

The PP tbing was a huge, huge problem but I’m not sure how much it was coaching. A lot of the time PP1 would be out so much because they absolutely dominated possession. There were times Quinn could snd should have changed that he didn’t but it wasn’t always a coaching decision. It does seem to be mostly rectified now however it happened though, PP2 has been out more snd converted a few times in my memory.

They definitely need to make a decision on center but the deadline passed now and it’s too late to change that. The way they went about Stromes contract makes me think they want Chytil to take that 2C spot long term, but for now it’s 3 top 6 centers for 2 spots and 2 of them are putting up crazy production

 

[Shesterkybomb]

My only beef at this point is that Blackwell is still in the top 6 over Kravtsov and Kakko, the Isles will manhandle him all night, i hate that lineup decision because that line needs a larger player, I'd prefer Kravtsov but either will do.

 

[smoneil]

This. Let’s not be the Oilers. Don’t put prospects in positions they are not ready for and hand them ice time that is over their capacity. I don’t love Quinn but I think he’s done a pretty good job with the prospects since most of them have improved over the season.

There's a middle ground between giving rookies 20+ minutes a night and having them finish bottom four in TOI for the entire team for close to a month running (which is where Quinn had them for most of the time between his return from Covid to the last couple games). And again, nobody is saying they haven't improved. We're saying that they need more opportunity. Also, again, go back to where you were on draft day. If I told you then that Kakko (in year 2) and Laf were likely to finish with ~20 points apiece this season, would you have thought "wow, Quinn has done a pretty good job with them"? What Quinn has done the last couple of games should have started two months ago. If it had, this team might have more regular contributors and be in better playoff position right now.

 

[smoneil]

The PP tbing was a huge, huge problem but I’m not sure how much it was coaching. A lot of the time PP1 would be out so much because they absolutely dominated possession. There were times Quinn could snd should have changed that he didn’t but it wasn’t always a coaching decision. It does seem to be mostly rectified now however it happened though, PP2 has been out more snd converted a few times in my memory.

They definitely need to make a decision on center but the deadline passed now and it’s too late to change that. The way they went about Stromes contract makes me think they want Chytil to take that 2C spot long term, but for now it’s 3 top 6 centers for 2 spots and 2 of them are putting up crazy production

Considering Chytil is pacing for 45 points in an 82 game season playing ~13 minutes per game with no powerplay? I'd say all three are putting up (situationally) crazy production. Once Kravtsov arrived and clearly looked like he belonged, the team needed to move to a regular 3 line rotation, as we have 9 guys now who could/should play in the top 6. Not only did we not do that, but we have a 4th liner on the 2nd line, which pushes an excellent prospect onto the fourth line, getting basement minutes. Swapping Kreider and Laf helped a little bit, but they still bury that 3rd line a bit and force-feed PP minutes to Kreider. Panarin can score with that dead bird from Monty Python as his center, and Strome showed while Panarin was on leave that he could score without him. Running Panarin/Chytil/Kakko and Kreider/Strome/Kravtsov in the middle six just offers so much more balance to the lines at even strength.

I'd also like to see them work with Chytil/Kakko as a PK pair. They started doing that with Chytil late last season, but seem to have abandoned it entirely this year.

 

[aufheben]

Isn't that the point? We have great individual talent. We see great individual performances. What we do as a team is well below average imo.

Our roster talent is absurd..

Yeah dude ‘cause like 75% of that talent can’t even buy beer yet.

This team is barely finished incubating. They’re not even close to their prime years.

 

[aufheben]

No we aren't. We have a greater collection of talent, but that doesn't make us a better team. A large portion of that talent has yet to hit their stride.

“On paper...” here just means “Panarin, Zibanejad, Fox...ok, I’m good. [back to HFBoards]”

There have been many nights during the past two years where half of our roster was just...bad. Literally 9/18 skaters—minimum.

You don’t measure teams by their best players you measure teams by their worst players.

 

[aufheben]

The real answer is no, he won’t, anyway.

 

[Ola]

Has nothing to do with missing the POs.

Listen to what Quinn preaches and then look at how the team plays. Don’t think that is a problem?

 

[Ola]

Really, this is no excuse for the players, nothing good will ever come from not playing the way the coach wants, and the biggest culprit is definitely Panarin followed by Zibanejad.

But there is one thing that gets us pts, one thing that we can be deemed to do OK and lol that is east west passing. What is Quinn bringing to the table? He is good at giving high draft picks record little ice time. What else?

Gorton is ultimately in charge of this, and to me this mess — as I see it — unfortunately proves that he cannot be counted on. This is unacceptable. I think that is our big concern. I like Gorton a lot from many perspectives, but this is where the first change must come at. The underlying problem is that we got someone that could hire DQ to start with and let him keep his position for so long.

 

[smoneil]

Yeah dude ‘cause like 75% of that talent can’t even buy beer yet.

This team is barely finished incubating. They’re not even close to their prime years.

Not a problem. They (including Panarin, who looks 12) can just have Laf buy it for them. He ain't getting carded with that beard.

 

[Guyute]

100% should be canned.

we lead the league in stupid o-zone penalties and too many men on the ice penalties.

Just no discipline overall. We also suck on face offs every year.

 

[smoneil]

If people insist on blaming the coach for lack of development, it only seems fair to give him credit when players do develop.

I don't disagree that there should be some level of credit for that, but again, I don't think development is the right word. The way coaches work with vets is not the same way that they work with incoming rookies and young players. Being good at one does not mean that a coach will be good at the other.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Heh, biggest game of the year tonight, how did Quinn do to prepare the troops?

Not sure how any one of you voted to keep this guy. All these wins are because of our elite players, not because of our coach.

 

[Baby Punisher]

I like Quinn, however, I feel like he has taken this team as far as he can. This is very impressive for a first-time head coach with just a college resume. I also think Quinn has a future as an NHL coach. It just might be time to move on from this particular group.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Heh quiet night from the pro Quinners tonight after the teams biggest game of the year...