Speculation: IF the Leafs don’t look legit

[notDatsyuk]

The glass is half full… not half empty.

The Leafs are closer to top 5 than missing the playoffs.

The glass is full - half liquid, half air.

 

[notDatsyuk]

By that logic they may be trading the whole team since they haven't announced they aren't.

They might. Or they might move the team to Hamilton. Neither is particularly likely, but can't be ruled out completely just because nobody has said anything yet.

 

[ACC1224]

They might. Or they might move the team to Hamilton. Neither is particularly likely, but can't be ruled out completely just because nobody has said anything yet.

Yes they are or they aren’t but because they haven’t said they aren’t we’ll assume they are.

 

[francis246]

We have not been told by any reputable source that the Leafs don’t want to move him. We have not been told by any reputable source that he has or hasn't been asked. We have not been told by any reputable source that he is or isn't holding up a move.

All we know for certain is that he hasn't been traded. Actually, all we know for certain is that no reputable source has told us that he has been traded. He may have been traded and all the principles have agreed to not announce it until after the Olympics.

Steve Simmons on July 7th wrote about the leafs not having asked Marner yet.

July 13th Terry Koshan wrote another article mentioning no traction on a Marner deal and word coming out of Marner’s camp is he will be at the leafs training camp in September as expected by the team.

Multiple reports from who?

And even that is only about asking him to waive. Anything about the Leafs not wanting to move him (beyond the coach making nice noises), or about Marner holding up a move? Lots of speculation, no facts.

I didn't say anything about him being traded after the Olympics. (I won't pull the annoying stunt of some posters by saying "go back and read it.") I said "(h)e may have been traded and all the principles have agreed to not announce it until after the Olympics."

Both Terry Koshans and Steve Simmons wrote articles back to back weekends. Steve Simmons 7th I believe and Terry Koshans July 13th. Both reported the leafs did not approach Marner for a trade and Koshans even reported that after the draft,

 

[notDatsyuk]

Yes they are or they aren’t but because they haven’t said they aren’t we’ll assume they are.

I'm not assuming anything. I actually agreed with you that we should not assume anything either way.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Steve Simmons on July 7th wrote about the leafs not having asked Marner yet.

July 13th Terry Koshan wrote another article mentioning no traction on a Marner deal and word coming out of Marner’s camp is he will be at the leafs training camp in September as expected by the team.

Both Terry Koshans and Steve Simmons wrote articles back to back weekends. Steve Simmons 7th I believe and Terry Koshans July 13th. Both reported the leafs did not approach Marner for a trade and Koshans even reported that after the draft,

Yes, that's right. Two reporters have said that Marner hasn't been asked, and that the Leafs haven't made a deal. Logically, you would think they wouldn't ask him to waive until they had at least a tentative deal that they thought he might be willing to waive for.

But none of that proves that the Leafs don't want to move him, just that they haven't made any progress (that they told the reporters about).

Likewise, Marner's camp saying he expects to be at the Leafs' training camp is not the same as saying he is blocking a trade.

I'm not sure why the difference is hard to grasp.

 

[Breakers]

Marners contract is easy to estimate

1) More than Nylander
2) Less then Matthews
3) in that range….. Ferris demands it be closer to matthews with pure Signing Bonuses.

Does TO want that?
That’s top heavy again

 

[francis246]

Yes, that's right. Two reporters have said that Marner hasn't been asked, and that the Leafs haven't made a deal. Logically, you would think they wouldn't ask him to waive until they had at least a tentative deal that they thought he might be willing to waive for.

But none of that proves that the Leafs don't want to move him, just that they haven't made any progress (that they told the reporters about).

Likewise, Marner's camp saying he expects to be at the Leafs' training camp is not the same as saying he is blocking a trade.

I'm not sure why the difference is hard to grasp.

Oh get over it, everyone knows now he ain’t getting traded. Admirable you’re still holding onto hope. But a Marner type deal doesn’t happen now. Only way it happens is if the leafs are out of a playoff spot by trade deadline.

As many in the thread said. It’s more likely he’s resigned or walked to UFA than he is traded. Leafs management is running it back.

 

[Nineteen67]

Marners contract is easy to estimate

1) More than Nylander
2) Less then Matthews
3) in that range….. Ferris demands it be closer to matthews with pure Signing Bonuses.

Does TO want that?
That’s top heavy again

That’s pretty much the hole they’ve dug.

 

[Sypher04]

A Marner deal is likely 12-12.5, especially if we want 8 years. Whether it should be is not what I’m saying, but it will be

 

[Racer88]

A Marner deal is likely 12-12.5, especially if we want 8 years. Whether it should be is not what I’m saying, but it will be

You could very well be right…………..

 

[Sypher04]

For what it’s worth:

13.25M Matthews
12.25M Marner
11.50M Nylander

40% of a presumed 92M cap next year

 

[Maple Leaf]

The glass is half full… not half empty.

The Leafs are closer to top 5 than missing the playoffs.

Agreed this is a good regular reason team
Can they get out of the first round?

 

[Mess]

Marners contract is easy to estimate

1) More than Nylander
2) Less then Matthews
3) in that range….. Ferris demands it be closer to matthews with pure Signing Bonuses.

Does TO want that?
That’s top heavy again

If Marner is no longer a Leaf in the future the Matthews and Nylander contracts no longer apply on the internal pay scale. Another Team and another internal pay structure and MM next contract applies to how it fits and how much it is worth to his next team.

With both Auston and WIlly's new deals and Marner and JT on their expiring deals the Leafs are currently in the worst CAP HELL position possible, with 4 of the top 12 highest AAV.

Once the NMC of MM and JT end the Leafs have the ability to correct the mistakes of the past, when their 2 worst overpaid contracts expire.

With nearly $22 mil on those 2 contracts becoming available next summer Leafs have a REAL opportunity for positive change, because if the Leafs keep doubling down on overpayments they will never look like a serious Cup Contender.

 

[LegChairGM]

They will keep both until they run out of money to do so. They have a plan.

This. 100%. Strategic bet.

 

[Maple Leaf]

Tavares is probably staying

taveras will slowly skate around and do what

 

[Menzinger]

Marners contract is easy to estimate

1) More than Nylander
2) Less then Matthews
3) in that range….. Ferris demands it be closer to matthews with pure Signing Bonuses.

Does TO want that?
That’s top heavy again

If Marner extends in Toronto I'd imagine it will be roughly 12.5x8

Which gives him the Matthews raise, puts him above Nylander and his camp can then point to the term as being symbolically being committed to the team/city.

I think going less than 8 years will be a PR disaster which the players camp will opt to avoid

 

[Racer88]

If Marner extends in Toronto I'd imagine it will be roughly 12.5x8

Which gives him the Matthews raise, puts him above Nylander and his camp can then point to the term as being symbolically being committed to the team/city.

I think going less than 8 years will be a PR disaster which the players camp will opt to avoid

This may be so but going 8 will be a Disaster from a team success standpoint. We have seen nothing so far that he is a winner when everything is on the line .
So 12.5 for 8 would be the death nell of this version of the team and we will be waiting for the next rebuild

 

[notDatsyuk]

Oh get over it, everyone knows now he ain’t getting traded. Admirable you’re still holding onto hope. But a Marner type deal doesn’t happen now. Only way it happens is if the leafs are out of a playoff spot by trade deadline.

As many in the thread said. It’s more likely he’s resigned or walked to UFA than he is traded. Leafs management is running it back.

I never said he was getting traded. Actually, I would prefer he not be traded, but that is irrelevant to the conversation.

All I have said is that we know it hasn't been announced that he's been traded.

We don't know that he will or will not be traded, or even that he has been (unlikely, but possible).

By he way, I think the statements "everyone knows now he ain’t getting traded" and "(o)nly way it happens is if the leafs are out of a playoff spot by trade deadline" are contradictory. And in both cases you are stating as fact an opinion.

That’s pretty much the hole they’ve dug.

And the first step to getting out of a hole is to stop making it deeper.

 

[Leafs87]

Marners contract is easy to estimate

1) More than Nylander
2) Less then Matthews
3) in that range….. Ferris demands it be closer to matthews with pure Signing Bonuses.

Does TO want that?
That’s top heavy again

Leafs counter pitch is that they can offer more than anyone. His max offer on the free agent market in terms of total dollars is less than the Nylander deal. 11.5X8 is 13.14X7. I doubt anyone would get anywhere close to that for Marner on July 1st. It’s really a take it or leave it if it’s even offered. I for 1 hope it’s not even offered

 

[Nineteen67]

I never said he was getting traded. Actually, I would prefer he not be traded, but that is irrelevant to the conversation.

All I have said is that we know it hasn't been announced that he's been traded.

We don't know that he will or will not be traded, or even that he has been (unlikely, but possible).

By he way, I think the statements "everyone knows now he ain’t getting traded" and "(o)nly way it happens is if the leafs are out of a playoff spot by trade deadline" are contradictory. And in both cases you are stating as fact an opinion.


And the first step to getting out of a hole is to stop making it deeper.

That’s if you want to get out the hole.

 

[Darcy Tucker]

That’s if you want to get out the hole.

Not this again.

 

[colchar]

Holy f*** I’ve seen you say this over and over again acting like it’s a matter of fact.

Um, it is a matter of fact. They have no movement clauses. That cannot be disputed.

Firstly, NMC’s ARE MOVEABLE, they get moved.

Only if the player agrees, and MM has said he is staying.

They give players securities but if the situation is ass which it is in this scenario, the player won’t want to stick around.

You have no idea what a player will or will not want to do so your argument is baseless.

Whether he gives a 1 team list or 5, Marner might not want to stick around if we suck by tdl

Or he might.

Secondly, if you read what I said, “CONVINCE MARNER TO BE DEALT”

He has said he is staying.

, I never said anywhere that we can outright deal him

You have argued from the assumption that he will agree. That assumption is baseless.

, but like I said again, if we are somehow out of the playoff picture, why wouldn’t we at least approach and ask him where he’d be fine going.

They can ask all they want, and he can tell them to go f**k themselves each and every time.

Read the post then reply, not the other way around

Grab a clue then post, not the other way around.

Wtf does it even matter. If you care about how they dress that just shows you as an insecure person imo.

Huh?

It shouldn’t matter how an athlete dresses, if they like to dance, if they like to play video games, if they have fake teeth, if they are married, if they love models. None of that should honestly matter. What matters is what do they do on the ice plain and simple. Everything else who the fck cares. It’s an outfit.

It could easily speak to their personality, one which is not conducive to winning.

 

[Aashir]

Um, it is a matter of fact. They have no movement clauses. That cannot be disputed.



Only if the player agrees, and MM has said he is staying.




You have no idea what a player will or will not want to do so your argument is baseless.



Or he might.




He has said he is staying.




You have argued from the assumption that he will agree. That assumption is baseless.




They can ask all they want, and he can tell them to go f**k themselves each and every time.





Grab a clue then post, not the other way around.



Huh?





It could easily speak to their personality, one which is not conducive to winning.

Then he can say that all he wants, but we can try to ask and convince him. Like f*** dude, I literally said “I’d look to see if we could convince Marner to be dealt AND THEN deal Marner@50”. If you can read properly, ask first then deal, if he says no he says no boohoo move on. I didn’t think I needed to specify that.

So now what a player says to the media they mean? Players don’t like staying in toxic areas, in a scenario like this, it could easily turn toxic and Marner be the scapegoat to that. He might not want to stay. Obviously im gonna bring up the stance that he wouldn’t want to stay, because I think he might want to waive then, you think he wouldn’t.

We don’t know what’s happening behind the scenes, especially in this fake scenario in the future. So stop trying to act like you know what will and won’t happen

 

[hamzarocks]

For what it’s worth:

13.25M Matthews
12.25M Marner
11.50M Nylander

40% of a presumed 92M cap next year

4 more years of 3 playoff wins secured.

That type of cap strategy may work for a team like the oilers

Mcdavid at 15
Draisaitl at 13
Bouchard at 10

38M / 92M ~ 41%

Those three are probably one of two trios who may be worth that much (avs trio is also potentially worth that)

Our trio underperforms in the playoffs heavily and at 40% cap allocation bo team can sustain poor playoff performances from their highest paud and best players.

It would be an insanely terrible gamble to pray that they figure things out at 28-30 year olds and beyond.

We need to walk from marner if he has a normal reg season and playoffs. Committing 12.5 x 8 is the end of ajy potential contention window with parts of this core