If the Habs' had won the 2021 Cup, who would deserve a jersey retirement?

[Bombshell11]

Price will and should get his number retired
Hes one of the goat players

too many losses on his resume, we're not the chicago blackhawks

 

[JianYang]

Weber is not an option for me. He came to montreal later in his career, and while he was still a fine defenseman, he was also often injured, and when I think of Shea Weber, I see the Nashville predators first and foremost, not the montreal canadiens

 

[MarioLeMoose]

I voted Weber because of that meeting before Game 5 in Toronto. It turned the series around. Leafs series was arguably biggest series win in Habs history.

A 1st round upset against the Maple Leafs was arguably the biggest series win in our history?
What are we, the Senators?

 

[sandviper]

I voted Weber because of that meeting before Game 5 in Toronto. It turned the series around. Leafs series was arguably biggest series win in Habs history.

Reports mention Price, Perry and Staal also spoke in depth. Not taking anything away from Weber here, but the Habs for sure on that run led by committee.

 

[Lshap]

Absolutely wrong. Even in his Norris season, Markov played more than Subban.

572 pts (0.58 PPG) vs 467 pts (0.56 PPG). Played longer at a higher level. Enough said.
And that is despite Subban playing with Markov for a big chunk of his career (then with the likes of Josi and Ekholm) while Markov made Mike freaking Komisarek an all star. Those early 00's teams were an abomination.

Markov was criminally under-appreciated. Subban was terrific for a few years; he had some spectacular playoff highlights and was a huge part of the Montreal community. But if we're measuring impact on the ice, Markov was the better player for much longer. Better peak: Subban. Better career: Markov.

 

[Lshap]

As for the poll, I agree with the majority. Price would, should, and will have his number retired.

Weber was exactly as advertised when we got him. Great presence on and off the ice, I doubt we get to the SCF without him, but not embedded as a Habs player for long enough to merit special honours.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Absolutely wrong. Even in his Norris season, Markov played more than Subban.

572 pts (0.58 PPG) vs 467 pts (0.56 PPG). Played longer at a higher level. Enough said.

I’m taking peak only. Subban at his peak was significantly better. He was a HOF talent. No way he wasn’t going to make it. But then came the injuries.

And that is despite Subban playing with Markov for a big chunk of his career (then with the likes of Josi and Ekholm) while Markov made Mike freaking Komisarek an all star. Those early 00's teams were an abomination.

At his very best Markov was a top ten blueliner. He was never really great in the playoffs and despite playing a long career I don’t think he’s a HOF talent. Subban definitely was.

Career wise? Neither makes the HOF. For Subban to flame outside early - no way he was going to make it.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Price deserves a jersey retirement regardless.

 

[the valiant effort]

I’m taking peak only. Subban at his peak was significantly better. He was a HOF talent. No way he wasn’t going to make it. But then came the injuries.

At his very best Markov was a top ten blueliner. He was never really great in the playoffs and despite playing a long career I don’t think he’s a HOF talent. Subban definitely was.

Career wise? Neither makes the HOF. For Subban to flame outside early - no way he was going to make it.

Markov losing the bulk of 3 seasons following a 64-point 2008-2009 to significant leg injuries renders his career one of the biggest what-ifs ever for the Habs.

Coming out of the lockout until Markov's leg was sliced by Price's skate in Oct 2009 he had the 3rd most points among all defensemen behind only Lidstrom and Rafalski, who were of course paired together on a Wings team that continued to destroy the regular season (and reach 2 more finals). 3rd most points in addition to being an objectively excellent defender.

If Markov is healthy through 2009-2010, 2010-2011, 2011-2012 he quite likely adds at least 2 more 60-point seasons to his resume. That brings his career totals north of 700 pts, 1200 GP, which is very much HOF territory based purely on accumulation. Such accumulation combined with the overall package of elite vision, knifing pucks through the seam, and ++ cerebral defensive positioning and stickwork makes a HOF-worthy player, IMO.

Markov absolutely never had a PK-esque showtime gear in the playoffs, but he never had a negative showing until 2012-2013 when many of us were wondering if this was his final hurrah. He was atrocious. Post-injuries he was always a step behind come playoff time and it was tough to watch.

 

[Nicko999]

I’m taking peak only. Subban at his peak was significantly better. He was a HOF talent. No way he wasn’t going to make it. But then came the injuries.

At his very best Markov was a top ten blueliner. He was never really great in the playoffs and despite playing a long career I don’t think he’s a HOF talent. Subban definitely was.

Career wise? Neither makes the HOF. For Subban to flame outside early - no way he was going to make it.

If you are talking absolute peak, it is close. I think Markov's 08-09 season is the best by a Habs D-man in the last 30 years. People might have preferred Subban's peak for emotional reasons (he was more spectacular after all). Nobody had a significantly better peak, it is close.

IQ is a talent as well... what Markov lacked in physical skills, he more than made up with insane IQ. The General at his best was the 2nd best D-man of his generation (behind Lidstrom).

As for the playoffs, there is no debate there, Subban was a big time player and lived for those moments.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

If you are talking absolute peak, it is close. I think Markov's 08-09 season is the best by a Habs D-man in the last 30 years. People might have preferred Subban's peak for emotional reasons (he was more spectacular after all). Nobody had a significantly better peak, it is close.

IQ is a talent as well... what Markov lacked in physical skills, he more than made up with insane IQ. The General at his best was the 2nd best D-man of his generation (behind Lidstrom).

As for the playoffs, there is no debate there, Subban was a big time player and lived for those moments.

Subban was better man. He was nominated (and won) the Norris… Markov was never that good. And Subban was way, way better in the playoffs too.

Subban was a sure fire HOFer before getting hurt. That was never the case for Markov.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Price that's it. I think he *still* deserves it even without the cup.

Weber didn't play here long enough and didn't peak high enough in Montreal to warrant it.

 

[DAChampion]

Subban was a sure fire HOFer before getting hurt. That was never the case for Markov.

I think that Markov would be a HOFer if not for the injuries.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I think that Markov would be a HOFer if not for the injuries.

He had a pretty long career regardless. He’d be in the Hall of the Very Good.

 

[Nicko999]

Subban was better man. He was nominated (and won) the Norris… Markov was never that good. And Subban was way, way better in the playoffs too.

Subban was a sure fire HOFer before getting hurt. That was never the case for Markov.

Clearly you have some bias against Markov.

Dude had more pts, better longevity, and a higher pt total in a season than Subban ever had (which imply better peak).

1 Norris in a shortened season doesn't change that. The voting is subjective and well Markov is Russian so yeah

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Clearly you have some bias against Markov.

Great player. But not a HOF talent. That’s not bias talking. You sure you’re not biased here?

Dude had more pts, better longevity, and a higher pt total in a season than Subban ever had (which imply better peak).

1 Norris in a shortened season doesn't change that. The voting is subjective and well Markov is Russian so yeah

Russian has nothing to do with anything. Subban was just a flat out better player. When he was on the ice he owned the puck and it was in the other teams end. Higher Norris votes. Better possession numbers. And he’s one of the best playoff players we ever had. He’s a cut above for sure.

Subban’s a three time all-star and would’ve been four if not for his injury in 2016. And he’s double Markov in the playoffs. This really isn’t close when you factor in the postseason.

 

[abo9]

I wouldn’t retire Weber’s jersey but he’s easily the most underrated Hab I can think of. When people say Pleks it’s ridiculous to me.

Weber went out like a warrior. Beyond broken and was a huge part of that run. The Covid cup stuff is nonsense. The best team one. We beat some very good teams. Weber was our captain and a rock back there yet he’s barely talked about anymore.
It’s absurd. I wish he’d be back with us in some capacity.

I think its less about Weber being underrated and more about the legacy left behind: his personal legacy and success came as a Nashville Predators. Montreal as a team didnt do too well when Weber was here, exception of that one run where Price overshadowed everyone else on the team.

So whats left of Weber's time in Montreal? It didnt mark his career, and he didnt mark the team.

To the question in the OP:

Price would certainly be retired. Between setting franchise records, winning all possible personal hardware as a goalie, and winning the Cup, its a no brainer.

I think he actually still has a chance, amplified by the need for some promo or whatever, but the lack of Cup ultimately might be too much.

Weber? No chance. If he was there 10 seasons maybe, but not for part of 5 seasons

 

[Nicko999]

Great player. But not a HOF talent. That’s not bias talking. You sure you’re not biased here?

Russian has nothing to do with anything. Subban was just a flat out better player. When he was on the ice he owned the puck and it was in the other teams end. Higher Norris votes. Better possession numbers. And he’s one of the best playoff players we ever had. He’s a cut above for sure.

Subban’s a three time all-star and would’ve been four if not for his injury in 2016. And he’s double Markov in the playoffs. This really isn’t close when you factor in the postseason.

For playoffs I agree but that doesn't diminish the the regular season.

You keep referring to the Norris but Markov had to deal with prime Chara and still very good Lidstrom.
Subban had to deal with Suter and Letang. Small difference don't you think?

Better possession maybe, not sure of the advanced stats but the whole game for Markov is to make the quick pass. Carrying the puck end to end wasn't his style. Doesn't make his less effective.

Markov was the PP QB, not Subban.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

For playoffs I agree but that doesn't diminish the the regular season.

You keep referring to the Norris but Markov had to deal with prime Chara and still very good Lidstrom.
Subban had to deal with Suter and Letang. Small difference don't you think?

No, I don’t. Markov never even made it to five in voting and only made it top six twice. He’s not as good as Subban is.

Better possession maybe, not sure of the advanced stats but the whole game for Markov is to make the quick pass. Carrying the puck end to end wasn't his style. Doesn't make his less effective.

Markov was really good. I’d never say otherwise. But Subban and Price were heart and soul players. The kind of guys you win cups with. In his short stint Subban was a top three blueliner three times and as I said it would’ve been four. He was crazy good.

Markov was the PP QB, not Subban.

Agreed. His passing was great and he did a lot of things really well. But Subban was an absolute beast.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

Donkey Power!

 

[Nicko999]

No, I don’t. Markov never even made it to five in voting and only made it top six twice. He’s not as good as Subban is.

Markov was really good. I’d never say otherwise. But Subban and Price were heart and soul players. The kind of guys you win cups with. In his short stint Subban was a top three blueliner three times and as I said it would’ve been four. He was crazy good.

Agreed. His passing was great and he did a lot of things really well. But Subban was an absolute beast.

As far as I am concerned, the record with and without Markov is one of the most telling stats. Missing Subban we did not see such a drastic difference. But missing Markov, we went from 100 pts team to lottery caliber.

Still to this day, his last season was the last time we made the playoffs in a normal year. Not a coincidence.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

As far as I am concerned, the record with and without Markov is one of the most telling stats. Missing Subban we did not see such a drastic difference. But missing Markov, we went from 100 pts team to lottery caliber.

Still to this day, his last season was the last time we made the playoffs in a normal year. Not a coincidence.

I think that says more about Bergevin’s incompetence than anything else. But I digress.

 

[HuGort]

Reports mention Price, Perry and Staal also spoke in depth. Not taking anything away from Weber here, but the Habs for sure on that run led by committee.

Corey Perry also spoke but Weber led meeting. Weber best leader in game at that time. The meeting turned series around. Habs dead meat up until then.

 

[JianYang]

Why din't he win a norris then? or even get nominated once?

and why they din't even give him the respect to complete his 1000 games playing career?

Are you just a hater? Subban was 1 notch above markov at any given point, he could make his own plays, pass the puck and score his own goals and defensively he was effective at defending, keeping the crease clear and throw hard hits.

Prime Markov lasted maybe 2-3 years, Prime Subban lastest for 6-7 years (including his time with Nash)

Markov's prime years were obliterated with multiple major injuries including major ligament damage in his knee (twice if I remember correctly) and a sliced Achilles. Unfortunately, we only saw a short lived "prime" Markov back in 07-08 and thats just when he started getting recognition on a league wide level as a high end player. Then he missed so much time afterwards that he kind of got forgotten on the league wide spectrum.

It was actually quite remarkable how he was able to come back at a high level in his 30s. His speed had taken a hit but he was able to adjust even as the game itself was getting faster.

 

[JianYang]

Maybe prior to the injury but Weber was much better against Vegas and Tampa and overall was the leader and set the identity of our defence. Petry made a gutsy return but was not very good from that point on. Weber was a beast from start to finish and broke the will of our opponents in the first 3 series along with Edmundson and Chiarot.

I think Weber was a trooper on that run but his play that year had certainly dipped. Most noticeably, his shot had declined and when the news came out that summer that he was done, it all made sense to me.