Post-Game Talk: If only Sullivan could get goaltending.

[Andy99]

Whether a player is on the ice for more goals for or against means a lot.

+/- has dumb transformations such as not counting PPs, counting shorties and empty netters, but 5-on-5 goal diff corrects for that. What was Geno's tonight?

No matter. It isn't like we're going anywhere regardless. And he does look like himself out there a lot of the time.

I don’t think it means a lot that a player is out there for a goal…sometimes you can just be unlucky and as soon as you get on the ice, a goal is had through no fault of the player…luck, timing of shifts etc all contribute to that goal against

 

[Ugene Magic]

I think it was a lazy narrative to say he caused this loss individually…he didn’t…he didn’t play great in the first two periods but CDS had a bigger impact on losing if you’re going to single anyone out, but I don’t think you can/should single anyone out…team effort at sucking, including the coach

The safe play takes away 2 of those. The first goal of the game was him looping.

I mean, I think I can safely say this game fell on Geno's shoulders. 3 times this wiped out being tied or in the lead. Malkin at equal isn't a winning formula.

 

[ChaosAgent]

You can get Buccos tickets for like $5 or free. Pens are almost there but not quite. 1st missed playoffs and it’ll be half $20 season rush tickets in the building every night again.

People here legit think that Pittsburgh fans will continue tuning in even once we start missing the playoffs.
It's hilarious. The org is not far from $200 6-packs of tickets. And that's with or without 87/71/58.

 

[Ugene Magic]

People here legit think that Pittsburgh fans will continue tuning in even once we start missing the playoffs.
It's hilarious. The org is not far from $200 6-packs of tickets. And that's with or without 87/71/58.

Them spending to the cap, FSG, now isn't gonna allow it to be the Generation X again. They'll go out and get stars to at least have a steady draw. Generation X II is not in the cards.

 

[ChaosAgent]

I don’t think it means a lot that a player is out there for a goal…sometimes you can just be unlucky and as soon as you get on the ice, a goal is had through no fault of the player…luck, timing of shifts etc all contribute to that goal against

I think over a long enough sample size it should cancel out. You get lucky. You get unlucky.

Yes a forward is largely irresponsible for each individual goals scored against him. But over a long enough timeframe, I'm interested in knowing whether the team outscores the opposition when he's on the ice.

I also think the modern NHL does not reward a diminished star. Maybe a diminished star who then plays a new plugger-type role, like Carter when things were going well for him here. But it does not reward ambition and confidence if they don't pan out. Especially if you're slow. Geno looks about 90% of what he was at his peak, but the problem is he plays such a high-event game that him being a net positive rests on a knife's edge.
Sadly it's kind of like Kessel '18-'19.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

I'd rather have DOC, a healthy Hallander get a chance ahead of Caggiula.

Really, the Pens have a potential fourth line in DOC, Poehling and Archibald.

It's the third line that needs replaced.

I'm not suggesting breaking the new 4th line up. The 3rd line plays like a bad 4th line, so Caggiula there would be fine.
Wouldn't say no to Hallander though I guess. Desperate times.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Them spending to the cap, FSG, now isn't gonna allow it to be the Generation X again. They'll go out and get stars to at least have a steady draw. Generation X II is not in the cards.

I don't think Generation X II really matters. It will be hard to be that bad unintentionally with the cap floor. Regardless, this town isn't going to show up for the 11th seed in the East after being a contender for 15 seasons. Happiness is reality minus expectations. So are ticket sales. The good thing is it's gonna get cheap!

 

[Gurglesons]

It’s wild to me two “fans” have said they wouldn’t care if the Penguins left Pittsburgh.

I just can’t fathom thinking that way and I’ve never even lived in Pittsburgh.

 

[Gurglesons]

Dude let a guy who would be his team's 2nd leading scorer walk because he was too much of a chud to handle the Parise and Suter situations differently than "Kick rocks, assholes." He's a f***ing moron who inherited a superstar in Kaprizov, and that dude, along with Zuccarello (with some help from Ek and Boldy) are doing yeoman's work despite Guerin's worst efforts. Now he's got $12-14 million in dead cap for the first three years of his superstar's new -edit- five year deal (gonna be interesting to see Kaprizov walk spun into some Guerin genius at work). But, the schmuck learned under JR, so no big surprise. All action, no brains, the mark of a JR apprentice through and through.

How did he let Fiala walk? He traded him for a 1st and a very good prospect.

Guerin did a bunch of solid contract restructuring to turn them back into a playoff team and has done a lot of good work in Minnesota.

Buying out Parise and Suter is the kind of ballsy work you always claim you want us to do and then you turn around and shit all over Guerin for actually doing.

 

[ChaosAgent]

It’s wild to me two “fans” have said they wouldn’t care if the Penguins left Pittsburgh.

I just can’t fathom thinking that way and I’ve never even lived in Pittsburgh.

It obviously doesn't impact your ability to follow them.

When you aren't firing people you're on here the entire day lol

 

[Gurglesons]

It obviously doesn't impact your ability to follow them.

When you aren't firing people you're on here the entire day lol

I don’t fire people

I appreciate legacy in sports. It’s what makes them attractive to me. Not really sure what you and BFD appreciate in sports tbh.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

They got opportunities largely due to injuries. But they also did something with their minutes when they arrived.

That said, they were all producing at WBS.

Sheary had 45 points in 58 games in his first full season in WBS. The next year he had 36 points in 30 games before getting the call.

Rust had 27 in 43, got a cup of coffee under Mike Johnston due to injuries, went back down and had 6 in 16 before getting called back up again to play on the fourth line.

Kuhnhackl had 15 points in 23 games after spending a couple years in the minors before getting called up.

Wilson had 22 goals and 36 points in 34 games before getting called up. People were begging for him.

And all of these guys, except Sheary, were killing penalties in the AHL.

Puustinen has been solid offensively - 34 points in 41 games this year. I'd be fine with him getting a shot on the third line instead of Heinen. But he's 5'9, 180. Nylander is 6'1, but he's still floating defensively. It's what curtailed his shot in Buffalo and in Chicago. How bad of an overall player do you have to be if the Blackhawks don't want you?

Hallander is hurt and has been pretty vanilla when he's been up. And I'm not sold on Gruden. He was way out of sorts on the PK in the limited chances he had.

No one is seizing the moment. Yeah, they get 8-10 minutes to start. That sucks. But do something with those 8-10 minutes. Show some awareness and energy and fly around.

You have Nylander and Puustinen producing very well and even Hallander before his injury had all of 2 games max. If you look at DOC and his usage as a case study it’s seriously puzzling, it’s like a coach that has no idea what the player is so he’s trying random usage until the player just sort of treads water in whatever ridiculous role he has them in. Yet the only options he has him in is 3rd line or 4th line.

Imagine if any of them got even half the amount of second, third, or fourth chances Heinen got. Puustinen got all of 1 game last season and he back checked hard, created a play to score and earned an assist with 10mins of ice time and then sent back down. Usually when a player impresses you give them a few more games. Not 1.

Last season Hallander got 1 game, Puustinen 1, Angello 4 (meh), Bjorkqvist 6, etc.

This year - Gruden 3, Hallander 2, Poulin 3.

Heinen got 15 games where he put up 3 assists and was -7.

 

[ChaosAgent]

I don’t fire people

I appreciate legacy in sports. It’s what makes them attractive to me. Not really sure what you and BFD appreciate in sports tbh.

I like watching sports and competition.
I don't really worship individual athletes as much as I did when I was younger.

 

[Gurglesons]

I like watching sports and competition.
I don't really worship individual athletes as much as I did when I was younger.

I don’t really worship any athletes.

I enjoy the NHL as a whole, but even a team like Atlanta relocating was sad for me.

Ultimately there is no reason the Penguins would relocate. The issues they had in the ‘90s are simply nonexistent.

 

[ChaosAgent]

I don’t really worship any athletes.

I enjoy the NHL as a whole, but even a team like Atlanta relocating was sad for me.

Ultimately there is no reason the Penguins would relocate. The issues they had in the ‘90s are simply nonexistent.

They won't relocate. Of course.

But if they did in 2023, I wouldn't care as much as I would have in 2006. If they moved to Kansas City I could get the whatever-Center Ice package and watch them.

But either way, the interest from this city is about to crawl to a standstill. The good thing about that is I'll be able to grab 2 tickets for a Tuesday-Wednesday game for like $50 combined. If I want to.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Also @DesertedPenguin - Kuhn, Wilson, Rust all were Sully’s guys.

Nylander, Puustinen, and Hallander are on career paces in the AHL that rivals or is better than some of those names and their stats during that season before their call up.

Yet Gruden leads the way tied with Poulin for 3 games on the 3rd/4th line, Puustinen hasn’t gotten a chance since Kapanen went down, instead Sullivan just gave more time to a player that hasn’t earned it in Heinen.

Puustinen has 34pts in 41 - 60pt pace there vs his 42 last year in 73 games. In 41 games he’s already 8pts from his season total. Yet nah, f*** that, more Heinen.

Nylander is also on a 60pt pace.

But nah, more Heinen!!

Caggiula is absolutely useless. But he’s a veteran so he got some games. But nah, not Nylander or Puustinen.

Hallander was on a 70pt pace but he only deserved 2 games max.

Say what you want, I don’t f***ing get how anyone defends Sully and says we have nothing down there when you haven’t even seen them get a fair shot and they’re producing down there to earn a shot the coach would rather give a veteran journeyman that goes long stretches of putrid play with no upside.

Look at the “fair shot” Drew gets. We had Zucker hurt and he couldn’t be bothered to put DOC there at all even just to try it for a game. It’s either he’s with Carter or Blueger or recently, Poehling.

 

[Gurglesons]

They won't relocate. Of course.

But if they did in 2023, I wouldn't care as much as I would have in 2006. If they moved to Kansas City I could get the whatever-Center Ice package and watch them.

But either way, the interest from this city is about to crawl to a standstill. The good thing about that is I'll be able to grab 2 tickets for a Tuesday-Wednesday game for like $50 combined. If I want to.

Pretty sure you can do that now.

Also @DesertedPenguin - Kuhn, Wilson, Rust all were Sully’s guys.

Nylander, Puustinen, and Hallander are on career paces in the AHL that rivals or is better than some of those names and their stats during that season before their call up.

Yet Gruden leads the way tied with Poulin for 3 games on the 3rd/4th line, Puustinen hasn’t gotten a chance since Kapanen went down, instead Sullivan just gave more time to a player that hasn’t earned it in Heinen.

Yeah the Puustinen thing makes no sense.

Even acquiring and resigning Nylander to never give him an NHL shift is odd, but I doubt there is anything he provides to us.

 

[Ugene Magic]

They won't relocate. Of course.

But if they did in 2023, I wouldn't care as much as I would have in 2006. If they moved to Kansas City I could get the whatever-Center Ice package and watch them.

But either way, the interest from this city is about to crawl to a standstill. The good thing about that is I'll be able to grab 2 tickets for a Tuesday-Wednesday game for like $50 combined. If I want to.

Good luck with that.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Also @DesertedPenguin - Kuhn, Wilson, Rust all were Sully’s guys.

Nylander, Puustinen, and Hallander are on career paces in the AHL that rivals or is better than some of those names and their stats during that season before their call up.

Yet Gruden leads the way tied with Poulin for 3 games on the 3rd/4th line, Puustinen hasn’t gotten a chance since Kapanen went down, instead Sullivan just gave more time to a player that hasn’t earned it in Heinen.

I don't know why Puustinen didn't get a shot on the third line after Kapanen went down. For all we know, there is an issue with him down in WBS. Or maybe Hextall and Sullivan are morons.

Frankly, I would have traded Heinen weeks ago. He seems like a nice enough dude, but he doesn't fit anymore. Trade him and give Puustinen 10-15 games.

That's not going to magically fix the team, but it'd be worth trying.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Pretty sure you can do that now.



Yeah the Puustinen thing makes no sense.

Even acquiring and resigning Nylander to never give him an NHL shift is odd, but I doubt there is anything he provides to us.

Nylander is whatever. Puustinen to me showed a lot of promise in 1 game, saw more hustle and skill in his game than anything I’ve seen out of Heinen and all he got last year was 1 and none this year.

Nylander is more or less interesting as he has strong blood lines and he’s showing consistency in the AHL, which at best deserves a shot even for 3-4 games. But he’s got zero so far. Meanwhile Drake Caggiula was useless for all 3 games we barely remember him for.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

5-5-3 for January. Pretty trash, considering it wasn't a tough schedule. Only one back-to-back.
The strength of competition was nothing special either.

The silver lining is losing this one the way we did strongly boosts our chances of getting the top 6 combos we want, coming out of the break.
The Sharks owned us at 5v5. May be the best thing for the team long term.

Will be nice to get Jarry back. There's gonna be some tough decisions to make with Kap and Archi being healthy too, unless more guys go down somehow lol.

I honestly don't know why fans still believe the bolded. Unless you're expecting Sullivan to be fired during the break, what reason has he given you that you think he'll change his beloved GCRust?

 

[Gurglesons]

Nylander is whatever. Puustinen to me showed a lot of promise in 1 game, saw more hustle and skill in his game than anything I’ve seen out of Heinen and all he got last year was 1 and none this year.

Nylander is more or less interesting as he has strong blood lines and he’s showing consistency in the AHL, which at best deserves a shot even for 3-4 games. But he’s got zero so far. Meanwhile Drake Caggiula was useless for all 3 games we barely remember him for.

The weird thing with Big Puusy is that he is 23 already and his ELC is burnt this year.

It wouldn’t shock me if they don’t even tender him a QO given how they seemingly don’t give a shit about him.

#sullyisaxenophobe

 

[CascadiaPenguin]

No use in getting angry, they are currently a bottom 10 team in the NHL. Nothing is going to change that, because there will be zero changes and zero accountability.

I'm hoping we can slide into a chance at bedard and continue to lose.

Bottom 10? Absurd. Bottom 15? Still a stretch. We are coming off a tough month missing key defenders and our only G who doesn't suck. This team certainly has a very limited ceiling for sure, and one should not change April travel plans because of this bunch, but bottom 10 is pure hyperbole.

Bedard is basically a statistically impossible fantasy. Don't know why this concept has legs in here, but it is ridiculous. Assuming lottery rules remain the same as last year, the bottom five lottery-eligible teams are precluded from winning the first pick as 10 spots is the maximum move up. The Penguins will not be the 11th worst team in the league. We will likely regress to the mean, squeak in, and get slaughtered in the first round.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

I honestly don't know why fans still believe the bolded. Unless you're expecting Sullivan to be fired during the break, what reason has he given you that you think he'll change his beloved GCRust?

Because he used it in the 3rd period when we got outscored 4 to 1 at 5v5 to a bad team on a B2B. I could see sitting on a bad loss like this for 9 days leading to a few minor changes.
Besides, GCRak has been used a fair amount since Rak has been here. We shouldn't rule it out just for the sake of frustration with the coach. It's been close to 50/50 in terms of Rak with both Centers.

Note that I didn't predict one way or the other, so please don't @ me when it's GCR again on Feb. 7.
I think the chances rise greatly in these circumstances though. That makes sense to me based on patterns I've seen from Sullivan in the past. He's not happy with how they're playing atm. He's not saying the usual crap about them playing hard and not getting rewarded. He is admitting to the inconsistency. He is admitting to the poor performance in the bottom 6.
There's gonna be 9 days for him and the coaching staff to discuss what they can fix and to recharge their batteries.

 

[chethejet]

I am not sure new ownership has a clue here. They just wanted the team to play well with the core and Jake and Rust and the adds like Rakell, Petry, Rutta and Poehling. Sullivan is here contractually and unless things really go south this year and into next year, No way they eat the money. Hextall will be fired well before Sullivan. But who wants the job with a coach who is running the show. Key players are not going anywhere and Pens will be doing the roster management until someone is hired to blow it up.