If he played today, Gretzky would at least put up Marner numbers?
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BraveCanadian
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- Jun 30, 2010
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David Bruce Banner
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Similar hands, in that they also look like hands. But no, in hockey terms, only Lemieux had hands like Gretzky.
The only way one could compare Gretzky to Marner is if you don't give Gretzky the benefit for having modern equipment or training.
But given all the modern advantages, Gretzky might not lap the field like he did in his day, but he'd still be easily the best player in the NHL, IMHO.
norrisnick
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Gretzky had a much better shot than any of the pass first stars of the last 20 years. Him being compared to Marner is criminal because he was so much more of an efficient player when it comes to puck management. He was even better than Crosby at that and no one in this era touches Crosby in that capacity right now. Gretzky didn’t just always make the right play, he made a play that nobody else could even think of making.
It's cool if you want to make these edgy type of threads on the internet and all - but you probably picked the wrong sub-forum for it.
The Panther
Registered User
What is extra weird to me is that OP registered on this site in 2002, that means he got to watch prime Gretzky, prime Lemieux and all of the other stars live on TV or maybe even in person. Are you guys all that impressed with how modern hockey is? Somehow I don't get it, whenever I watch a game I don't get a feeling I am watching superhumans play the sport. I didn't get to watch the game live back then but even in the past 20 years I feel like the general quality of players have gone down if anything. I see the same in soccer. Maybe I am just getting old.
tinyzombies
Registered User
There’s give and take. The players have better tech but the goalies are light years better (tho instead of 4-5 good shooters they now face 20). There’s less violence and holding but also less time and space and the players are just as big but way better skaters. And the lower lines are good now too. All the teams play systems unlike in Gretzky’s day. By the time Mario hit his prime all the teams were at least playing the trap if they were no good. I think saying Marner as a baseline of 130 points is a compliment to Gretzky. Marner is a hexkuva player despite what disgruntled Leaf fans say. He creates lanes he doesn’t just make good passes. I’m not saying he’s better than Gretzky would be, but stylewise that’s a good place to start the measurement. Also you can’t just shrug off that Marner gets his points while playing defense, even tho it’s from the wing.
If Marner’s best possible point outcome in a full season on a strong team (if you relieve him of his defensive responsibilities) is 130, that could be a good ballpark average for Gretzky 2024. And in good years he gets 150+, then McDavid, MacKinnon, Kucherov are special players too.
Lots of younger people say Gretzky couldn’t hang today, I think the Marner analogy shows he could be just as dominant in today’s terms.
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Jagr at 43 scored 66 points in a season where only one guy got over 90 points. The same amount of points as a 22 year old Nikita Kucherov. 28 year old Crosby had 85. 43 for an athlete is extremely old and he was never really close to being on Gretzky's or Lemieux's level. I just don't see it...
tinyzombies
Registered User
The new rules are an advantage to big skilled players who can finish tho - you can’t touch him at the net. That’s a different scenario.
The thing that separates Gretzky from Marner is his agility I think. Give him new skates and a lifetime of practicing 10-2-2 roller hockey moves and he’d probably be up in that 150+ range more often than not (again, without playing defense). Also for a guy who was never in the shape these guys are in, Gretz had great stamina, which shows he could have adapted to a two-way game and still scored.
BigBadBruins7708
Registered User
There's 1 degree of separation between Gretzky and Marner...Joe Thornton.
Stop acting like Gretzky played before the forward pass
Stop acting like Gretzky played before the forward pass
Bear of Bad News
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- Sep 27, 2005
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If only we had something better than black-and-white grainy footage to observe Gretzky, this would be easier to solve.
VanIslander
23 years of heraldin' wins & intangibles
I agree wholeheartedly with the op.
If Gretz put on his skates today he'd match Mitch.
Even though he's 63.
If Gretz put on his skates today he'd match Mitch.
Even though he's 63.
Dennis Bonvie
Registered User
Biggest laugh of the week for me!
Dennis Bonvie
Registered User
I would say the quality of coaching is better, making for a much better overall defensive game league wide. Not as many poor skating defensemen as there used to be either.
But I also feel like all of the great players would have adjusted quickly to whatever different era they would be magical dropped into.
DitchMarner
TheGlitchintheSwitch
I think Kucherov is a better comparison. Did he put up more than 140 points because of how fast or strong he is? No. He plays that cerebral style that people who ask how players like Gretzky would do in later eras don't seem to truly grasp or appreciate.
Give him a summer to train, work out and diet like players do today and he'd beat Kucherov by a substantial margin due to even better hockey IQ and vision.
Give him a summer to train, work out and diet like players do today and he'd beat Kucherov by a substantial margin due to even better hockey IQ and vision.
The only thing Marner beats Gretzky at is getting respected in the handshake line.
McPoyle
Start breaking bricks wet nips
MadLuke
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I think it can be easy to overthink here, Gretzky was not even that small (in interview today he look well built so it could have do it with creatine if it was needed and obviously a 6 foot guy, not tall for an pro athlete but not small either), we see Patrick Kane-Caufield that can score in today league, how much I have to play modern defense slowdown happened to Malkin, Kucherov-McDrai-PKane, etc...
Gretzky played against not so serious teams in a not always so serious a open league and scored a lot of points, but also did very well against Arbour Islanders, Burn's Leafs in 1993, many best on best tournament against stacked and very well coached-system soviet teams, he scored a lot in all the scenario he was ever put in over a very long amount of times (from a young kids to being top 3 scorer in 97 and 98 season combined, 10 goals-20 pts in 15 playoffs game in 1997), that 27 years in a row of scoring excellence from the atom levels to the start of DPE hockey.
Some player gained the benefit of the doubt that they would adjust and be good in anything that look like hockey situation, Gretzky, Lemieux, Howe, Bourque, Jagr, Lidstrom, Hasek, about all the great had to play in quite different leagues growing up and been good so long in the nhl that they had to adjust to quite different style of leagues.
I am not sure there is any era in which prime Gretzky does not at least compete for the Ross (let alone keep up with Mitch Marner), maybe there some series against Eddie Shore that get rough, no forward pass limit one of his great attribute, etc... but Gretzky was incredibly tough and would have grow up in the ww1 era like Shore
Gretzky played against not so serious teams in a not always so serious a open league and scored a lot of points, but also did very well against Arbour Islanders, Burn's Leafs in 1993, many best on best tournament against stacked and very well coached-system soviet teams, he scored a lot in all the scenario he was ever put in over a very long amount of times (from a young kids to being top 3 scorer in 97 and 98 season combined, 10 goals-20 pts in 15 playoffs game in 1997), that 27 years in a row of scoring excellence from the atom levels to the start of DPE hockey.
Some player gained the benefit of the doubt that they would adjust and be good in anything that look like hockey situation, Gretzky, Lemieux, Howe, Bourque, Jagr, Lidstrom, Hasek, about all the great had to play in quite different leagues growing up and been good so long in the nhl that they had to adjust to quite different style of leagues.
I am not sure there is any era in which prime Gretzky does not at least compete for the Ross (let alone keep up with Mitch Marner), maybe there some series against Eddie Shore that get rough, no forward pass limit one of his great attribute, etc... but Gretzky was incredibly tough and would have grow up in the ww1 era like Shore
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Maybe - but that's only because in the handshake lines, Gretzky would be the one giving out the respect.
buffalowing88
Registered User
What's extra weird to me is when people gatekeep what can and can't be posted. It's the off-season, there's not much going on. I think it's okay to ask random questions as long as they pertain to historical players/events, which OP does.
JackSlater
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- Apr 27, 2010
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I see similarities in terms of size and aversion to physicality I guess, also some skating similarities in shiftiness. Outside of that, Marner is a smart player but Gretzky is the smartest player ever.
I also think that Gretzky stays at centre today. They tried to turn Marner into a centre but ended up aborting it and leading him as a winger. Gretzky is a much smarter (and better) player so he stays at centre. It isn't as if Gretzky shifted to wing in the late 90s when the opposition was bigger and more defensive than he'd face today.
I also think that Gretzky stays at centre today. They tried to turn Marner into a centre but ended up aborting it and leading him as a winger. Gretzky is a much smarter (and better) player so he stays at centre. It isn't as if Gretzky shifted to wing in the late 90s when the opposition was bigger and more defensive than he'd face today.
Crosby2010
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I am just not seeing the Marner/Gretzky comparison, not even style-wise. There is just simply no one who had Gretzky's style that I have ever seen in NHL history. I can't describe it. Marner is a great playmaker and all, but in today's NHL he's never been better than 4th in assists. Never hit 70 assists either. Gretzky hit 72 assists in 1997 at the tail end of his career and we all scoffed at how he wasn't the same player anymore, a universe removed from his prime essentially.
Gretzky saw the ice like no other, and he worked as hard as anyone as well. What he did on the ice looked natural, and it was, but he practiced all of that. He was 5'11" or so and 170lbs. soaking wet but it doesn't matter, it was never his size that was his strength, nor would it be today. It was his vision. I have stated before that as impressed as I am with what McDavid did in this year's postseason we should be reminded that Gretzky did that basically 6 times in his career and all of the trips he made to the Cup final - minus 1993 and 1987 - have a better PPG than McDavid's in 2024 and even then they are right at the same level.
We are talking about playmaking but you simply can't compare anyone to a guy that would have won the scoring title with his assists 4 times.
Gretzky saw the ice like no other, and he worked as hard as anyone as well. What he did on the ice looked natural, and it was, but he practiced all of that. He was 5'11" or so and 170lbs. soaking wet but it doesn't matter, it was never his size that was his strength, nor would it be today. It was his vision. I have stated before that as impressed as I am with what McDavid did in this year's postseason we should be reminded that Gretzky did that basically 6 times in his career and all of the trips he made to the Cup final - minus 1993 and 1987 - have a better PPG than McDavid's in 2024 and even then they are right at the same level.
We are talking about playmaking but you simply can't compare anyone to a guy that would have won the scoring title with his assists 4 times.
