Seravalli: I wouldnt be shocked if Necas is traded before Game 1 of Cup Finals

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Big Daddy Cane

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Aho/Svechnikov/Jarvis/Burns - 12.75 PP GF/60
McDavid/Draisaitl - 13.04

Lefty to lefty, left half wall to slot was a meaningful change to the PP in 23/24. Bunting played in the bumper when it got really hot. Guentzel replaced him at the end. Why rock the boat by reinserting Necas back in there?

EDIT: 32.1% from December - February.
 

bringbacktheskate604

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Jul 20, 2022
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You're arguing with neutral fans and keep ignoring all logic. Clearly you can't be reasoned with. As a neutral fan Necas has substantially more value than Hronek.

Hronek was shipped off because he got steam rolled in the two game set against the sens and wings. Same thing happened in the playoffs he can't handle a heavy forcheck when the games get tight. Nhl teams know it, literally everyone except you seem to acknowledge it.


He just showed his point totals with and without Hughes... are you serious?
That two game set seems to be your Stanley cup. Do you actually think that's why he was traded? Because that's just stupid.

It's pretty obvious that he was traded because in a cap world you don't pay two RHD #1 money and with Seider there Hronek was seen as the #2 RHD and anyone who pays attention, his agent is a shark, Hronek has always been part of tough negotiations.

As for his production you are aware that players usually get better as they get older as they hit their peak.
He broke our last season until he got hurt and continued that trajectory this season until again he got hurt.

It's funny seeing fans who very likely only watch the nucks a handful of times due to our games starting at 10-1030 back east acting like they are experts based on stat lines without knowing any of the actual context.
The airing of Quinn and Hronek was literally the best pairing in hockey until Hronek hurt his elbow and stopped shooting the puck and was unable to play anywhere near the level he showed.
Hronek last year in Detroit was playing at an almost identical pace to the start of this season.

Demko put it best when asked about them when he said I seldom seen them because they always have the puck 200 feet from my net.

The only concern with Hronek is can he stay healthy for a full season because when healthy the last two years he's been producing at a high - level and like every other dman we have flourished under Tochett, Foote, Gonchar and the system they implemented.
 

Boom Boom Apathy

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What’s that supposed to mean?:laugh:

This a forum to discuss hockey and I’m discussing Necas in a Necas thread, what part of this makes you think I’m not OK ?
You do realize that in the post he responded to, you quoted two posters (bert and WhiskeyYerTheDevils), neither of who are Hurricanes fans, and stated right after quoting those 2:

"You Hurricanes fans are some of the best salesman I’ve ever heard. Truly fascinating stuff."
 

Habs7631

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Feb 28, 2017
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You do realize that in the post he responded to, you quoted two posters (bert and WhiskeyYerTheDevils), neither of who are Hurricanes fans, and stated right after quoting those 2:

"You Hurricanes fans are some of the best salesman I’ve ever heard. Truly fascinating stuff."

I didn’t no, but I guess I do now? There was quite a few posters with Canes avatars posting so I’m very sorry if 2 of out of the many people who I was trying to address in that post were not Canes fan. I guess next time I’ll take time looking though people profile to make sure. Just kidding I won’t, who has time for that?

It’s ok, I’m bowing out of this thread.

Instead of addressing some of the concerns me and others have for Necas it seems the people who think he’s as good as they say would rather post funny memes/gifs and weird stuff like “bro.... are you OK?”. I’ll pass.
 

Boom Boom Apathy

I am the Professor. Deal with it!
Sep 6, 2006
49,352
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I didn’t no, but I guess I do now? There was quite a few posters with Canes avatars posting so I’m very sorry if 2 of out of the many people who I was trying to address in that post were not Canes fan. I guess next time I’ll take time looking though people profile to make sure. Just kidding I won’t, who has time for that?
I really don't care if you do or don't, I was just pointing it out to make you aware. If you are going to make a disparaging remark about a fan base, and you are quoting posters that aren't in that fan base as a basis for that remark, you lose credibility and your posts won't be taken seriously. If that's the result you want, it's fine by me.
 

bert

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That two game set seems to be your Stanley cup. Do you actually think that's why he was traded? Because that's just stupid.

It's pretty obvious that he was traded because in a cap world you don't pay two RHD #1 money and with Seider there Hronek was seen as the #2 RHD and anyone who pays attention, his agent is a shark, Hronek has always been part of tough negotiations.

As for his production you are aware that players usually get better as they get older as they hit their peak.
He broke our last season until he got hurt and continued that trajectory this season until again he got hurt.

It's funny seeing fans who very likely only watch the nucks a handful of times due to our games starting at 10-1030 back east acting like they are experts based on stat lines without knowing any of the actual context.
The airing of Quinn and Hronek was literally the best pairing in hockey until Hronek hurt his elbow and stopped shooting the puck and was unable to play anywhere near the level he showed.
Hronek last year in Detroit was playing at an almost identical pace to the start of this season.

Demko put it best when asked about them when he said I seldom seen them because they always have the puck 200 feet from my net.

The only concern with Hronek is can he stay healthy for a full season because when healthy the last two years he's been producing at a high - level and like every other dman we have flourished under Tochett, Foote, Gonchar and the system they implemented.
'ThAtS youRe STanLEy cUp.' Christ all mighty , expect that from Montreal and Toronto fans but believe it or not because someone is a fan of a bad team doesnt mean they dont understand the sport. How good the team you cheer for has absolutely nothing to do with someones hockey knowledge. What an individual has been exposed to in the sport absolutely does. Like playing at a high level and being coached by elite coachs and continuing to be involved in hockey.

I watch the Canucks a ton, I always stay up for late games. I go to bed late, I really enjoyed the Canucks this year and was routing for them in the playoffs. Hroneks play falls off when the games get heavy for a multitude of reasons including his ability to stay healthy because he doesnt avoid contact well. If you dont want to acknowledge that, its your own prerogative. There's a reason Vancouver doesn't want to pay him either. Quinn Hughes is an absolute super star the fact that you guys want to acknowledge that but not that he elevates Hroneks play is homer fandom at its finest.

Yes there's a concern about him staying healthy, because he cant heavy physical hockey it goes hand and hand. Great player dont get me wrong but he has his flaws and thats the big one.
 
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MarkusNaslund19

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Dec 28, 2005
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Lol. This is too good. Butt hurtitis big time. Reading comprehension ain’t yo thing.

Its like mansplaining what hronek is but isn’t supported by any metrics.

You actually used mansplaining. I can’t stop laughing
Mansplaining isn't just a gender thing, genius. It's when an unqualified person 'ackshually's someone who knows what they're talking about (or it can be about gender).

And 'hurr durr metrics' is just you smugly admitting that you don't watch the player and/or don't understand the game well enough to know what you're seeing if you did.

Metrics can be important to reinforce observation, or potentially to challenge it. But it's not a replacement.

You're debating with a myriad of Canucks fans who are telling you what Hronek is, which is a decent top pairing D and an absolute luxury on the 2nd pairing. And you're trying to quantify a game full of a trillion variables by staring at a spreadsheet and confused as to why we're not taking you seriously.
 

MarkusNaslund19

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Dec 28, 2005
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'ThAtS youRe STanLEy cUp.' Christ all mighty , expect that from Montreal and Toronto fans but believe it or not because someone is a fan of a bad team doesnt mean they dont understand the sport. How good the team you cheer for has absolutely nothing to do with someones hockey knowledge. What an individual has been exposed to in the sport absolutely does. Like playing at a high level and being coached by elite coachs and continuing to be involved in hockey.

I watch the Canucks a ton, I always stay up for late games. I go to bed late, I really enjoyed the Canucks this year and was routing for them in the playoffs. Hroneks play falls off when the games get heavy for a multitude of reasons including his ability to stay healthy because he doesnt avoid contact well. If you dont want to acknowledge that, its your own prerogative. There's a reason Vancouver doesn't want to pay him either. Quinn Hughes is an absolute super star the fact that you guys want to acknowledge that but not that he elevates Hroneks play is homer fandom at its finest.

Yes there's a concern about him staying healthy, because he cant heavy physical hockey it goes hand and hand. Great player dont get me wrong but he has his flaws and thats the big one.
I think in this case him saying 'that's your Stanley Cup' which is often needlessly derogatory, is him pointing out that you are using a tiny sample size of 2 regular season games between two teams who were barely on the cusp of relevance in said season (neither of whom made the playoffs) to draw far too broad conclusions.

Hronek played well in the playoffs other than the fact that it was clear he had an arm injury.

In the first half of the season, his heavy shot injured so many forwards it was crazy. His shot would either create a high danger chance, or lead to an opposing forward absolutely crawling off of the ice.

Now, the fact that happened a notable amount in the first 50 or so games, and then stopped happening entirely over the last 32 +playoffs, when his play dipped to just playing like a decent top 4 is either a wild coincidence, evidence of an injury, or 'pRoOf hE cAn'T hAnDlE tHe tOuGh gOiNg'.

His problem isn't that he can't handle physical play.
Occasionally he doesn't protect himself well enough from a big hit from a forechecker, but he never shies away from the tough stuff, and doesn't p***yfoot around because there are big players.

I know Detroit looked like a broken team in that two game set and I can imagine how exciting it was to watch your team do that to a rival, but drawing massive conclusions about a player based on that set is incredibly fallacious.
 
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Petes2424

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Aug 4, 2005
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Why would they need to be careful with those two
It’s pretty black and white if you watched Sharangovich play this season, and he’s only 6 months older than Necas.

There’s every chance Sharangovich has the better career from this point forward, and Markstrom is an asset they need to make sure they get the best value for. I’m not saying that might not be Necas, but Calgary is going to have plenty of interest in him, to take the best deal.

Necas has proven nothing more than he can be a supporting, role playing winger in the league. He’s 25 now and “the flashes” better start being more than flashes as he enters his prime. Especially from the wing, because a Top 6 winger is the easiest add from a top 6 perspective. Easiest deals to make, least value to give up, and easiest free agents to sign.

So yea, Calgary better be real careful if people are throwing around those two names.
 

Nikishin Go Boom

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Mansplaining isn't just a gender thing, genius. It's when an unqualified person 'ackshually's someone who knows what they're talking about (or it can be about gender).

And 'hurr durr metrics' is just you smugly admitting that you don't watch the player and/or don't understand the game well enough to know what you're seeing if you did.

Metrics can be important to reinforce observation, or potentially to challenge it. But it's not a replacement.

You're debating with a myriad of Canucks fans who are telling you what Hronek is, which is a decent top pairing D and an absolute luxury on the 2nd pairing. And you're trying to quantify a game full of a trillion variables by staring at a spreadsheet and confused as to why we're not taking you seriously.
So metrics are okay to challenge observations of rose colored glasses fans but not in this case?

2 posts later you admit Hronek can’t handle the physicality of the position which was one of my main arguments against Hronek as a top pairing guy. Yet i haven’t watched him…..

Im not the one confused about how Canucks fans view their players. It seems to be the other way around. Canucks fans can’t accept the fact that people aren’t fawning over hronek
 

CTHabsfan

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Jul 28, 2007
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Don't need a goalie. Got our #1A/B tandem signed for next year. Got #3 in Chicago and a pair of solid goalie specs in our system.
Don't expect to win the Stanley Cup if you want to go with that goalie tandem. Necas for Ullmark makes a lot of sense, the only question being would conference rivals want to help each other by addressing a weakness?
 
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Nikishin Go Boom

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Don't expect to win the Stanley Cup if you want to go with that goalie tandem. Necas for Ullmark makes a lot of sense, the only question being would conference rivals want to help each other by addressing a weakness?
Ullmark doesn’t help in the playoffs.

His save percentage is below .900 the last 3 seasons. His GSAx is below Freddie’s in the playoffs.
 
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HawksDub89

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Don't expect to win the Stanley Cup if you want to go with that goalie tandem. Necas for Ullmark makes a lot of sense, the only question being would conference rivals want to help each other by addressing a weakness?

Frankly, Necas for Ullmark is a win for the Canes.

Im also confused. I saw it’s reported he’s expected to get $8.8 x 8. Why?

8.8 is pretty high for me. I like his game, but not that much.
 

MarkusNaslund19

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Dec 28, 2005
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So metrics are okay to challenge observations of rose colored glasses fans but not in this case?

2 posts later you admit Hronek can’t handle the physicality of the position which was one of my main arguments against Hronek as a top pairing guy. Yet i haven’t watched him…..

Im not the one confused about how Canucks fans view their players. It seems to be the other way around. Canucks fans can’t accept the fact that people aren’t fawning over hronek
Lol, no stop being willfully obstinate.

Metrics are useful to challenge one's own observations IF one knows what they are watching/looking for. Not one person using metrics to challenge someone else's observation. How could that be useful?

And I didn't 'admit he can't handle physicality'. I said his one limitation WITH physicality is that sometimes he doesn't protect himself as well as he could and can occasionally be prone to taking bigger hits than one would want. Like it happened maybe 10 times this season and none of them were a catastrophe, but you'd prefer he elude them.

And LOL yes, you've watched so many Canucks games and clearly understand the game so well that you should definitely keep mansplaining to us about our players using your metrics.
 

Nikishin Go Boom

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Also I don’t think the league is going to value Necas the same way Canes fans do.

He’s a solid top 6 forward, not a star.
I don’t think most canes fans value necas that much. It comes down to we don’t have to trade him and trading him for futures or for a player we wont have long term doesn’t make sense for us.

I am one who has hoped necas would be traded last season. I don’t like his game at all.

But just trading him to trade him is silly. Trading him for a soon to be UFA or a 2 year contract expiring as a UFA doesn’t make a lot of sense either.

He has talent so trading him for a lesser talent doesn’t make sense for a team trying to win.

The trade either needs to be an upgrade in talent for us or equivalent talent on a contract with control.

Lol, no stop being willfully obstinate.

Metrics are useful to challenge one's own observations IF one knows what they are watching/looking for. Not one person using metrics to challenge someone else's observation. How could that be useful?

And I didn't 'admit he can't handle physicality'. I said his one limitation WITH physicality is that sometimes he doesn't protect himself as well as he could and can occasionally be prone to taking bigger hits than one would want. Like it happened maybe 10 times this season and none of them were a catastrophe, but you'd prefer he elude them.

And LOL yes, you've watched so many Canucks games and clearly understand the game so well that you should definitely keep mansplaining to us about our players using your metrics.
Mansplaining. Lol. Use micro aggressions next. You can’t use mansplaining then turn around and try to explain everything to me.

I do love the irony here calling me obstinate and then reading your continual dismissal of metrics because it doesn’t support your obviously biased observations.
 
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MarkusNaslund19

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I don’t think most canes fans value necas that much. It comes down to we don’t have to trade him and trading him for futures or for a player we wont have long term doesn’t make sense for us.

I am one who has hoped necas would be traded last season. I don’t like his game at all.

But just trading him to trade him is silly. Trading him for a soon to be UFA or a 2 year contract expiring as a UFA doesn’t make a lot of sense either.

He has talent so trading him for a lesser talent doesn’t make sense for a team trying to win.

The trade either needs to be an upgrade in talent for us or equivalent talent on a contract with control.


Mansplaining. Lol. Use micro aggressions next.

I do love the irony here calling me obstinate and then reading your continual dismissal of metrics because it doesn’t support your obviously biased observations.
You know, you can be masculine without being afraid of empathy, right?

Microaggressions as a term is often overused/misused but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. But if I had to guess, you probably unironically use terms like 'sigma' and 'alpha', so we might just speak different languages.

I'm not dismissing metrics out of hand. You're just refusing to admit that you don't watch Hronek and don't know anything about him OTHER than glancing at metrics, which is just ignorant. There is soooo much statistical noise in hockey that any actual statistician of any kind would laugh at someone who thinks that using publicly available metrics devoid of empirical evidence is anything other than folly.
 

Nikishin Go Boom

Russian Bulldozer Consultent
Jul 31, 2017
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You know, you can be masculine without being afraid of empathy, right?

Microaggressions as a term is often overused/misused but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. But if I had to guess, you probably unironically use terms like 'sigma' and 'alpha', so we might just speak different languages.

I'm not dismissing metrics out of hand. You're just refusing to admit that you don't watch Hronek and don't know anything about him OTHER than glancing at metrics, which is just ignorant. There is soooo much statistical noise in hockey that any actual statistician of any kind would laugh at someone who thinks that using publicly available metrics devoid of empirical evidence is anything other than folly.
you seem to know hronek as much as you know what i watch. I get it you have homer observations. Luckily the canes have already said no to Hronek so its unimportant. Really no need for you to mansplain (lol) anything.
 
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