Proposal: I was convinced that a Nylander for Tkachuk trade would have been a great opportunity for Dubas.

[therealkoho]

That look would have been a better deal than what Calgary got. Nylander has 2 years left before UFA and he's younger. His family has a Calgary connection so he would likely re-sign there. Lili/Sandin will not be UFA at the end of this season and will be cheap contracts. I don't think Dubas would offer that package, considering that Tkachuk would likely not re-sign with Toronto so he would be a 1-year rental.

Now we can all watch Florida pay a heavy price in the standings at no cost to ourselves.

While it was a good haul, I think labelling it a windfall might be a bit strong.

Huberdeau is a great player no doubt but at this time next year he might be shopping his services, IF Calgary doesn't move him at the deadline(depends on whether he's interested in reupping there).

Weegar is in the same boat, so same scenario exists as far as he's concerned.

None the less Huberdeau should outscore Tkachuk in the coming year, but the loss of Johnny Hockey will hurt them, so maybe they won't put the puck in the net with the frequency of last year's team. They also might get bounced around a lot more than last year which could also slow them down.

If the Leafs talked to the Flames at all, hearing Tkachuks ask, probably put the kibosh on any talks, Tkachuk # should have really been mid 7's and 5 years but that's like just my opinion man. I don't ever see him breaking 80 points ever again, on the other hand I see Willy being 85+ guy for the next 7 or so years.

 

[andora]

While it was a good haul, I think labelling it a windfall might be a bit strong.

Huberdeau is a great player no doubt but at this time next year he might be shopping his services, IF Calgary doesn't move him at the deadline(depends on whether he's interested in reupping there).

Weegar is in the same boat, so same scenario exists as far as he's concerned.

None the less Huberdeau should outscore Tkachuk in the coming year, but the loss of Johnny Hockey will hurt them, so maybe they won't put the puck in the net with the frequency of last year's team. They also might get bounced around a lot more than last year which could also slow them down.

If the Leafs talked to the Flames at all, hearing Tkachuks ask, probably put the kibosh on any talks, Tkachuk # should have really been mid 7's and 5 years but that's like just my opinion man. I don't ever see him breaking 80 points ever again, on the other hand I see Willy being 85+ guy for the next 7 or so years.

I thought toronto not being on tkachuks list put the kibosh on it

 

[Bryson03tml]

I would tell both of them that we'll all wait until we're halfway through the season.

At that point, the negotiations begin. If the players are liking Calgary, then we try to come to an agreement before the trade deadline. Obviously if no contract can be signed, then onto plan B and sell them at the deadline. Rebuild begins.

I'd be a transparent with them as possible.

 

[Bryson03tml]

What do the flames do if they are in the playoff picture and both players are still unsigned? Everyone says trade them at the deadline but if they are winning that won't happen
It's a difficult spot for the flames to be in

 

[Fogelhund]

What do the flames do if they are in the playoff picture and both players are still unsigned? Everyone says trade them at the deadline but if they are winning that won't happen
It's a difficult spot for the flames to be in

That will be a tough one. If they look like a contending team, tops in the division, if it were me, I'd just go for it. If they are a marginal playoff team, fighting for the last couple of spots, I'd probably explore what returns I'd get, if both/either player has indicated that they don't plan on extending. That's the key, try and extend them, and if they won't, you have to make the tough decisions... If you know you are going to lose them, and be forced into rebuilding the roster, through either a rebuild, or through Free Agency, you might as well make trades, and get future assets, unless you are really positive your team can excel in the playoffs.

 

[Trapper]

Tkachuk was never on the radar and we need another 10 million player like we need a hole in the head.
If you think Florida overpaid, great, that’s what we should be looking for (a forward and D) for Nylander before he wants 9 + million,
Get 2 guys in and locked up long term to good contracts. These contracts will then be locked for Matthews/Marner new deals.

 

[therealkoho]

I thought toronto not being on tkachuks list put the kibosh on it

I should have probably put more emphasis on the "IF"

 

[justashadowof]

I don't think we've seen the full extent of certain star NHLers wanting out of Canada at this particular time in history. Hopefully it's not at 1990's levels. There's a cap and revenue sharing system now so it should be less painful this time.

 

[93LEAFS]

While it was a good haul, I think labelling it a windfall might be a bit strong.

Huberdeau is a great player no doubt but at this time next year he might be shopping his services, IF Calgary doesn't move him at the deadline(depends on whether he's interested in reupping there).

Weegar is in the same boat, so same scenario exists as far as he's concerned.

None the less Huberdeau should outscore Tkachuk in the coming year, but the loss of Johnny Hockey will hurt them, so maybe they won't put the puck in the net with the frequency of last year's team. They also might get bounced around a lot more than last year which could also slow them down.

If the Leafs talked to the Flames at all, hearing Tkachuks ask, probably put the kibosh on any talks, Tkachuk # should have really been mid 7's and 5 years but that's like just my opinion man. I don't ever see him breaking 80 points ever again, on the other hand I see Willy being 85+ guy for the next 7 or so years.

You are sleeping on Tkachuk. He put up 77 points in 82 games as a 21 year old in a lower scoring league playing primarily with Backlund and Frolick at 5v5. I'd be pretty surprised if he doesn't put up good numbers with Barkov.

Tkachuk is a better player than Willy. He brings a very rare skill set in this league. He could be a much better version of Bunting on line one, he can also drive a line as the best player on it. He doesn't need the puck a ton to effect the game at 5v5 like say Marner or Nylander. He'll win battled, cycle the puck and get in front of the net. He combines that with insanely high hockey IQ so you can trust him with the puck more than say Bunting or Hyman, and he very often makes very correct reads. The only forwards we have with a clearly higher IQ of the game are Marner and Tavares, and both those guys would be very high-up (like top 5 or top 10 in the league in reading the game). Hence why they are both or have been superstars in this league despite not having the greatest physical tools.

 

[andora]

I should have probably put more emphasis on the "IF"

So tkachuk's demands were in reference to his shortlist of cities or his contract demands

 

[Mess]

You are sleeping on Tkachuk. He put up 77 points in 82 games as a 21 year old in a lower scoring league playing primarily with Backlund and Frolick at 5v5. I'd be pretty surprised if he doesn't put up good numbers with Barkov.

Tkachuk is a better player than Willy. He brings a very rare skill set in this league. He could be a much better version of Bunting on line one, he can also drive a line as the best player on it. He doesn't need the puck a ton to effect the game at 5v5 like say Marner or Nylander. He'll win battled, cycle the puck and get in front of the net. He combines that with insanely high hockey IQ so you can trust him with the puck more than say Bunting or Hyman, and he very often makes very correct reads. The only forwards we have with a clearly higher IQ of the game are Marner and Tavares, and both those guys would be very high-up (like top 5 or top 10 in the league in reading the game). Hence why they are both or have been superstars in this league despite not having the greatest physical tools.

Every team would love a Matt Tkachuk as he is a very unique player between size, skill, strength, physicality,

Some people seem to underestimate his offensive ability because he drives so much of his own play.

Mitch Marner drafted #4OA in 2015 vs Matthew Tkachuk drafted #6OA in 2016

2021-22 Season Scoring Leaders
=====================
#8 - Matthew Tkachuk .. 82 games 42 goals 62 assists 104 points
#10 - Mitch Marner .........72 games 35 goals 62 assists 97 points

2015-16 London Knights
=====================
Mitch Marner ................... 57 games 39 goals 77 assists 116 points (Age 18)
Matthew Tkachuk .......... 57 games 30 goals 77 assists 107 points (Age 17)

Not to compare them as players only to make the point in Junior as teammates or now in the NHL statistically there are similarities, and Tkachuk isn't some one hit wonder and should be seen more as comparable to Marner then Nylander (who I see in a lower tier of player) then these 2 comparables.

** Note: the assist totals of both to demonstrate playmaking abilities **

I also think just like Huberdeau previously, Tkachuk with Barkov is going to be a force offensively in Florida, who where the highest scoring team in the NHL last year.

 

[93LEAFS]

Every team would love a Matt Tkachuk as he is a very unique player between size, skill, strength, physicality,

Some people seem to underestimate his offensive ability because he drives so much of his own play.

2021-22 Season Scoring Leaders
=====================
#8 - Matthew Tkachuk .. 82 games 42 goals 62 assists 104 points
#10 - Mitch Marner .........72 games 35 goals 62 assists 97 points

2015-16 London Knights
=====================
Mitch Marner ................ 57 games 39 goals 77 assists 116 points (Age 18)
Matthew Tkachuk ....... 57 games 30 goals 77 assists 107 points (Age 17)

Not to compare them as players only to make the point in Junior as teammates or now in the NHL statistically there are similarities, and Tkachuk isn't some one hit wonder. I also think just like Huberdeau previously, Tkachuk with Barkov is going to be a force offensively in Florida.

Marner is much more consistent at the NHL level, and the big thing in the case of the Knights as someone who has closely followed them, Marner put up 2 points per game as a 17-year-old prior to Tkachuk arriving with Matt Rupert being his LWer. Also, that was Tkachuk's 18 year old season, he's a late birthday (They are both 1997) and that is what determines IIHF eligibility for tournaments, and that determines what age they are deemed in. Marner has pretty much scored at a 95 point pace or higher per 82 games since the All star break of his 2nd season when we moved him away from JVR-Bozak and put him with Marleau-Kadri.

I'd take Marner over Tkachuk, but I'd take Tkachuk over Nylander. Marner is in the discussion for smartest/highest IQ player in the league, and those are impossible to find.

 

[ACC1224]

Marner is much more consistent at the NHL level, and the big thing in the case of the Knights as someone who has closely followed them, Marner put up 2 points per game as a 17-year-old prior to Tkachuk arriving with Matt Rupert being his LWer. Also, that was Tkachuk's 18 year old season, he's a late birthday (They are both 1997) and that is what determines IIHF eligibility for tournaments, and that determines what age they are deemed in. Marner has pretty much scored at a 95 point pace or higher per 82 games since the All star break of his 2nd season when we moved him away from JVR-Bozak and put him with Marleau-Kadri.

I'd take Marner over Tkachuk, but I'd take Tkachuk over Nylander. Marner is in the discussion for smartest/highest IQ player in the league, and those are impossible to find.

100%, good post.

 

[Fogelhund]

If the Leafs talked to the Flames at all, hearing Tkachuks ask, probably put the kibosh on any talks, Tkachuk # should have really been mid 7's and 5 years but that's like just my opinion man. I don't ever see him breaking 80 points ever again, on the other hand I see Willy being 85+ guy for the next 7 or so years.

7's just isn't reality. 104 points players, even if he trends back to PPG, the league has past that point now in salary structure. Honestly, I thought he'd be asking for more.

 

[therealkoho]

You are sleeping on Tkachuk. He put up 77 points in 82 games as a 21 year old in a lower scoring league playing primarily with Backlund and Frolick at 5v5. I'd be pretty surprised if he doesn't put up good numbers with Barkov.

Tkachuk is a better player than Willy. He brings a very rare skill set in this league. He could be a much better version of Bunting on line one, he can also drive a line as the best player on it. He doesn't need the puck a ton to effect the game at 5v5 like say Marner or Nylander. He'll win battled, cycle the puck and get in front of the net. He combines that with insanely high hockey IQ so you can trust him with the puck more than say Bunting or Hyman, and he very often makes very correct reads. The only forwards we have with a clearly higher IQ of the game are Marner and Tavares, and both those guys would be very high-up (like top 5 or top 10 in the league in reading the game). Hence why they are both or have been superstars in this league despite not having the greatest physical tools.

Of course he would have been a lot more effective than Bunting for sure, Tkachuk's a bigger faster and stronger guy overall and has more skill than Bunts.

That said Will's skill level on the Leafs is only surpassed by the two big boys and just judging from what I've seen would say it also exceeds Tkachuks as well. Will's got better wheels and possibly a better wrist shot. They're close enough though that it's tough to say., Tkachuk however has a level of game that Will just can't touch(or won't). While Tkachuk probably just had the best season he'll ever have in pro-hockey thank's in no small part to his two line'mates having their best season's, Will's best are yet to come, hopefully!

Personally I would've loved to see the Leafs acquire Tkachuk for the first line, that trio would've been unstoppable, Buntings 23/40 is a great season though no doubt, this season will tell whether or not he really has the requisite skill to play with those two or he's just a guy who was in the right place at the right time.

the Leafs still need a highly motivated LW to play on that 2nd line with JT and Will. Kerfoot tried his best and had his best ever season but just isn't a top 6 forward, it likely cost both JT and Will in the neighbourhood of 10 points each. I'm just not seeing that mystery man on the Leafs roster who can step up and do a better job presently.

 

[93LEAFS]

Of course he would have been a lot more effective than Bunting for sure, Tkachuk's a bigger faster and stronger guy overall and has more skill than Bunts.

That said Will's skill level on the Leafs is only surpassed by the two big boys and just judging from what I've seen would say it also exceeds Tkachuks as well. Will's got better wheels and possibly a better wrist shot. They're close enough though that it's tough to say., Tkachuk however has a level of game that Will just can't touch(or won't). While Tkachuk probably just had the best season he'll ever have in pro-hockey thank's in no small part to his two line'mates having their best season's, Will's best are yet to come, hopefully!

Personally I would've loved to see the Leafs acquire Tkachuk for the first line, that trio would've been unstoppable, Buntings 23/40 is a great season though no doubt, this season will tell whether or not he really has the requisite skill to play with those two or he's just a guy who was in the right place at the right time.

the Leafs still need a highly motivated LW to play on that 2nd line with JT and Will. Kerfoot tried his best and had his best ever season but just isn't a top 6 forward, it likely cost both JT and Will in the neighbourhood of 10 points each. I'm just not seeing that mystery man on the Leafs roster who can step up and do a better job presently.

Tkachuk is a smarter player than Nylander though, you will never see him hold the puck too long waiting for an opening to the same extent Willy does, he either saw it much quicker or knows to re-set play. Pure skill Willy wins out, and might be the better #1 option on a line, but Nylander isn't a franchise driving #1 option on a team that is going anywhere, Tkachuk is a much better #2 option on a line, especially with someone like Tavares who thinks the game just as quick and can take advantage of cycle play. I really like Willy as a player, but Tkachuk would bring much more complimentary attributes when you already have the big 3. Now the point is moot because there was no way we could pay Tkachuk, and it wouldn't make sense to give up the package required to beat out Florida for 1 year.

 

[Mess]

Marner is much more consistent at the NHL level, and the big thing in the case of the Knights as someone who has closely followed them, Marner put up 2 points per game as a 17-year-old prior to Tkachuk arriving with Matt Rupert being his LWer. Also, that was Tkachuk's 18 year old season, he's a late birthday (They are both 1997) and that is what determines IIHF eligibility for tournaments, and that determines what age they are deemed in. Marner has pretty much scored at a 95 point pace or higher per 82 games since the All star break of his 2nd season when we moved him away from JVR-Bozak and put him with Marleau-Kadri.

I'd take Marner over Tkachuk, but I'd take Tkachuk over Nylander. Marner is in the discussion for smartest/highest IQ player in the league, and those are impossible to find.

While I don't dispute anything you said as I followed junior hockey as well quite closely as a draft junkie.

I'd take Marner as a better vision and playmaker and no question among the best in the game, but has other limitations in size and strength categoreis .. Tkachuk is the better goal scoring presence. If you wanted to make a 1-1 swap you could do Mitch for Matthew and get a lot of similarities as you pointed out but of course there is an obvious difference stylistically size and physicality.. To me this comes down to a personal choice as to whom one would prefer more, and what skillset you would place more value in.

A Tkachuk -- Matthews duo vs a Matthews -- Marner duo would bring a much different and some argue much needed dynamic "powerforward" in the mix.

A Leafs trade for Tkachuk would more be like the Florida one, where Nylander would be only 1 of 3 or 4 pieces heading the other way.. Nylander would be seen more as the Huberdeau part of that trade, If Leafs could have made a Nylander + + trade for Tkachuk I would have been fully on board.

 

[81Leafs50]

Tkachuk had a short list. He wasn't coming to Toronto. Even if he was the pieces required to make that trade created too many holes. Huberdeau is better than Tkachuk. FLA got ripped off hard.

 

[93LEAFS]

Tkachuk had a short list. He wasn't coming to Toronto. Even if he was the pieces required to make that trade created too many holes. Huberdeau is better than Tkachuk. FLA got ripped off hard.

Its more about the 5 year age gap between Huberdeau and Tkachuk. You are buying way more prime years for Tkachuk compared to what Huberdeau's extension will look like.

 

[Big Muddy]

This trade would have put TOR over the top and would have addressed many areas of need.

Obviously the biggest factor is the cap and lack of assets.

It's not that the lack of a Tkachuk acquisition cancels Christmas, but this is just another knock on Shanahan who's clearly going against his own values.

I wish this team wasn't so downy soft. No one seems to be learning from the past and even the present.

Not sure if you are implying this, but I doubt if it would be a one for one Nylander for Tkachuk trade.

 

[Fogelhund]

If the Leafs talked to the Flames at all, hearing Tkachuks ask, probably put the kibosh on any talks, Tkachuk # should have really been mid 7's and 5 years but that's like just my opinion man. I don't ever see him breaking 80 points ever again, on the other hand I see Willy being 85+ guy for the next 7 or so years.

7's just isn't reality. 104 points players, even if he trends back to PPG, the league has past that point now in salary structure. Honestly, I thought he'd be asking for more.

 

[Mess]

Its more about the 5 year age gap between Huberdeau and Tkachuk. You are buying way more prime years for Tkachuk compared to what Huberdeau's extension will look like.

I see that same way also and putting core players into the same compete window, because of age.

24 year old Matthew Tkachuk and 26 year old Sasha Barkov both are starting year #1 of their 8 year extensions, and both beginning of their prime years going forward.

Huberdeau is 29 and pending UFA next year at age 30 ... Florida turned their compete window clock back the 5 years because of the difference in age to align it with Barkov as their core going forward, and going to build up from that base now. Florida is sooooo much better locking in Tkachuk at $9.5 mil then having to pay similarly for Huberdeau coming off a career year 115 points to a long term deal.

This in Leafs terms would have been similar to trading 31 year old Tavares (Huberdeau component) for a #2C but 5 years younger to put that player in the same age group as Matthews and Marner. When Leafs young players come up for their next extensions in a few years, its often JT deemed expendable nearing the later part of his career as Leafs hope to lock up Matthews and Marner for 8 years.

 

[Big Muddy]

He didn't want to come here lol. What part of his list of desired teams all being American in low tax states makes you think he was at all interested in extending here.

You don't even have to get into discussions about the value or whether it was the right call. It was never an option! You're getting upset over absolutely nothing!

A lot of athletes use things like Retirement Compensation Agreements (RCA) to reduce taxes. The highest taxed teams are in a 53% jurisdiction and the lowest taxed team is in a 37% tax jurisdiction, but the actual delta between the highest and lowest is around 5% with RCAs.

 

[93LEAFS]

A lot of athletes use things like Retirement Compensation Agreements (RCA) to reduce taxes. The highest taxed teams are in a 53% jurisdiction and the lowest taxed team is in a 37% tax jurisdiction, but the actual delta between the highest and lowest is around 5% with RCAs.

Yeah, if you are fine with retiring to a low tax state you can make it up at the end of your career. Plus, its not like the money has to stay stagnant, it can be invested within that portfolio, so you aren't hurt by inflation. Now, you do need some of the money immediately, which you do get hit with a heavier tax rate at.

 

[Mess]

7's just isn't reality. 104 points players, even if he trends back to PPG, the league has past that point now in salary structure. Honestly, I thought he'd be asking for more.

Remember Florida is a tax free zone... Tkachuk in another market would have had a larger AAV to make sure his take home pay is equal at the end.

$9.5 mil in a tax free zone is the equivalent of $11 mil AAV in a higher tax bracket.