Proposal: I was convinced that a Nylander for Tkachuk trade would have been a great opportunity for Dubas.

[Hoglund4MvP]

/thread

It's ridiculous that posters are yet again taking shots at the GM for not trading for Tkachuk when they saw the price tag that it took, and that it is clear he did not want to be in Canada.

If Tkachuk wanted to stay in Calgary for 8 x 9.5 or any 8 year deal this trade would have been declined by the Flames side. Exaggerating the haul

 

[Havoc]

If Tkachuk wanted to stay in Calgary for 8 x 9.5 or any 8 year deal this trade would have been declined by the Flames side. Exaggerating the haul

And dubas would have declined the same offer for Marner so I don't know why people are putting words into dubas' mouth.

Our equivalent offer would be Tavares 2 years ago + Brodie 2 years ago + 1st for EIGHT years of Matthew Tkachuk starting at 24 years old.

Who says no? Yeah I thought so. Cut the crap.


-- To be clear I am saying Dubas would be on the Florida won team, not on the pro-Dubas team. I get your boy Scoobz for this one.

 

[Nineteen67]

If Tkachuk had the Leafs on his list of teams, they couldnt make the trade if Calgary wanted a D. Other than Rielly, they have nothing and theyre not trading Rielly, anyway.

 

[Shooter2x]

If we ever traded 24 year old Marner for a 30 year old star who isn't even a guarantee for 30 goals and leaving their prime I'd burn every Leaf item I own.

Mackenzie f***ing Weegar as the consolation prize to bridge giving up all of Marners prime? Get that kind of trash out of my face.


Calgary gets a pass because Tkachuk stabbed them in the back.

 

[BertCorbeau]

And dubas would have declined the same offer for Marner so I don't know why people are putting words into dubas' mouth.

Our equivalent offer would be Tavares 2 years ago + Brodie 2 years ago + 1st for EIGHT years of Matthew Tkachuk starting at 24 years old.

Who says no? Yeah I thought so. Cut the crap.


-- To be clear I am saying Dubas would be on the Florida won team, not on the pro-Dubas team. I get your boy Scoobz for this one.

That’s not really an equivalent offer or how it works

 

[BertCorbeau]

If we ever traded 24 year old Marner for a 30 year old star who isn't even a guarantee for 30 goals and leaving their prime I'd burn every Leaf item I own.

Mackenzie f***ing Weegar as the consolation prize to bridge giving up all of Marners prime? Get that kind of trash out of my face.


Calgary gets a pass because Tkachuk stabbed them in the back.

Even if Marner said he wouldn’t sign long term in Toronto?

 

[zeke]

If we ever traded 24 year old Marner for a 30 year old star who isn't even a guarantee for 30 goals and leaving their prime I'd burn every Leaf item I own.

Mackenzie f***ing Weegar as the consolation prize to bridge giving up all of Marners prime? Get that kind of trash out of my face.


Calgary gets a pass because Tkachuk stabbed them in the back.

It's funny that the GMs in CGY and EDM are getting praised this offseason while their teams have gotten worse.

 

[Havoc]

That’s not really an equivalent offer or how it works

Tavares at the same age as Huberdeau, our no.2 D and our 1st rounder is literally the closest comparison for trying to re-create Floridas package to give a better perspective that Florida didn't overpay like how others are saying they are.

Stop focusing on what you think works or not and simply give a yes / no to that deal. Nit picking on what we agree as equivalent is a waste of time.

 

[BertCorbeau]

Tavares at the same age as Huberdeau, our no.2 D and our 1st rounder is literally the closest comparison for trying to re-create Floridas package to give a better perspective that Florida didn't overpay like how others are saying they are.

Stop focusing on what you think works or not and simply give a yes / no to that deal. Nit picking on what we agree as equivalent is a waste of time.

Well like Tavares on his current deal, or on his previous deal? And there’s a difference between a 30 year old Brodie and 28 year old
Weegar.

It’s a confusing comparison.

 

[Shooter2x]

Even if Marner said he wouldn’t sign long term in Toronto?

I gave Calgary's end a pass. I would forgive us if Marner abandoned us. The hyperbole in that comment was with respects to how Florida is being thrown under the bus for what they gave up. They locked up Tkachuk for 8 years. Got their guy. Tkachuks relations with Calgary is irrelevant from a value angle.

You can't put a price on the prime years of players like Marner and Tkachuk. You ride these guys for better or worse. You can't replace them.

Would you fast forward Marner to 30 years old, giving up 24-29, to acquire Weegar and a 1st?

 

[Havoc]

Well like Tavares on his current deal, or on his previous deal? And there’s a difference between a 30 year old Brodie and 28 year old
Weegar.

It’s a confusing comparison.

It's really not a confusing comparison I think you're just beating around the bush so you don't have to say "Tkachuk". I am limited to resources we have I can't make up assets out of thin air. Work with me here.

 

[BertCorbeau]

I gave Calgary's end a pass. I would forgive us if Marner abandoned us. The hyperbole in that comment was with respects to how Florida is being thrown under the bus for what they gave up. They locked up Tkachuk for 8 years. Got their guy. Tkachuks relations with Calgary is irrelevant from a value angle.

You can't put a price on the prime years of players like Marner and Tkachuk. You ride these guys for better or worse. You can't replace them.

Would you fast forward Marner to 30 years old, giving up 24-29, to acquire Weegar and a 1st?

The difference between 1 year of Hubes and Tkachuk, factoring age, does not seem like it is worth 1 year of a top 3 D-man, a 1st rounder pick, and B prospect.

Keep in mind Hubes and Weegar could each get a 1st + prospect/young player in separate deals.

So Florida gave the equivalent of at least three 1st round picks, a few solid to good prospects, and a couple of young roster players.

It’s a big value gap.

It also doesn’t help florida win now, because it hurts their defense and gives them less assets to trade with at the deadline.

 

[BertCorbeau]

It's really not a confusing comparison I think you're just beating around the bush so you don't have to say "Tkachuk". I am limited to resources we have I can't make up assets out of thin air. Work with me here.

It’s semantics really, but if we are trying to find comparable value I think:

Nylander + Brodie + Sandin/Robertson + 1st rounder is more appropriate

The drop from Hubes to Willy and Weegar to Brodie would mean an A prospect going the other way instead of a B one.

 

[Jozay]

Sounds like Tkachuk wanted to be in a low tax state with a playoff team.

He most likely had no interest playing in Toronto.

 

[zeke]

Nylander + Brodie + Sandin/Robertson + 1st rounder is more appropriate

You would trade that for 1 year of Huberdeau and Weegar??

 

[Shooter2x]

So Florida gave the equivalent of at least three 1st round picks, a few solid to good prospects, and a couple of young roster players.

Why do I want this for a Tkachuk / Marner? Off the bat I am taking three 1sts from a team that will still make the playoffs. Run the odds on me ever replacing my Marner/Tkachuk with this teams three 1sts. Just gambling on my picks being hits and I don't even know the timeline of when they'll be ready if they are hits. Why is this more enticing to me than all of the prime years of a guaranteed allstar / superstar? There's a million other means to obtain all the assets you just listed out over the same amount of time it will take for these picks / prospects to figure itself out.

What a headache as well with all the extra moves we would need to make to even max out the value gap you speak of. If I take all this value you speak of do you think a team is going to send a Marner or Tkachuk back in return?

I respectfully think you are viewing what Florida gave up through a "Tkachuk doesnt want to play for calgary" lens. From that lens you have no choice but to cry, give him up, get a decent haul and move on yes. That's why Calgary gets a pass and wins too.

From Floridas view they don't really care they overpaid on paper in the grand scheme of things. They got their young star entering his prime and like I said age 24-29 for a player like Tkachuk is priceless. Even though Calgary won given the unfortunate circumstances, the true benefactors in Tkachuk ditching Calgary is Florida.

* What I mean by playoff team is 1.) The team getting the star is not going to finish low in the standings and 2.) The teams trading for huberdeau and weegar are most likely making pushes for their cup run.

 

[ACC1224]

It’s semantics really, but if we are trying to find comparable value I think:

Nylander + Brodie + Sandin/Robertson + 1st rounder is more appropriate

The drop from Hubes to Willy and Weegar to Brodie would mean an A prospect going the other way instead of a B one.

For an extended Tkachuk?
That's a lot but very tempting.

 

[AllDay28]

This trade would have put TOR over the top and would have addressed many areas of need.

Obviously the biggest factor is the cap and lack of assets.

It's not that the lack of a Tkachuk acquisition cancels Christmas, but this is just another knock on Shanahan who's clearly going against his own values.

I wish this team wasn't so downy soft. No one seems to be learning from the past and even the present.

you think Tkachuk isnt soft?

 

[Ianturnedbull]

you think Tkachuk isnt soft?

I think you need to edit a little.

 

[Havoc]

It’s semantics really, but if we are trying to find comparable value I think:

Nylander + Brodie + Sandin/Robertson + 1st rounder is more appropriate

The drop from Hubes to Willy and Weegar to Brodie would mean an A prospect going the other way instead of a B one.

I love Nylander but would have to take this deal for 8 years of Tkachuk. Have to assume Tkachuk is for 8 years with this package because Florida did this trade knowing they are locking Tkachuk up forever.

At worst I would have to ask you to give me a day to think about it and get back to you. But this little window of doubt (Edit: I wasn't clear here. Doubt as in I want to say yes but also a part of me wants to say no) means it's unfair to conclude with certainty that Florida overpaid.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

This trade would have put TOR over the top and would have addressed many areas of need.

Obviously the biggest factor is the cap and lack of assets.

It's not that the lack of a Tkachuk acquisition cancels Christmas, but this is just another knock on Shanahan who's clearly going against his own values.

I wish this team wasn't so downy soft. No one seems to be learning from the past and even the present.

Are you sure a guy with a known track record for being a mentally vertically challenged person with no great playoff track record tips the scales?

If he throws 2 year old tantrums over a puck flip, you think he can handle this market?

 

[Ianturnedbull]

Are you sure a guy with a known track record for being a mentally vertically challenged person with no great playoff track record tips the scales?

If he throws 2 year old tantrums over a puck flip, you think he can handle this market?

I don't know. Why don't you start a poll and ask leaf fans if you can handle the market. It sounds like you can't.

 

[Havoc]

Are you sure a guy with a known track record for being a mentally vertically challenged person with no great playoff track record tips the scales?

If he throws 2 year old tantrums over a puck flip, you think he can handle this market?

Tell me honestly how you think a Tkachuk-Matthews pair will perform in the playoffs. Remove all biases or whatever stunts Tkachuk pulled in the past and just answer me without playing games.

A Tkachuk-Matthews duo is a duo the entire league would lose sleep over. It doesn't get more scary than that for 2023.

Edit central but I like our matthews-marner duo, everything said from my end is just to give perspective that Florida didn't overpay.

 

[Hoglund4MvP]

Tell me honestly how you think a Tkachuk-Matthews pair will perform in the playoffs. Remove all biases or whatever stunts Tkachuk pulled in the past and just answer me without playing games.

A Tkachuk-Matthews duo is a duo the entire league would lose sleep over. It doesn't get more scary than that for 2023.

Edit central but I like our matthews-marner duo, everything said from my end is just to give perspective that Florida didn't overpay.

like matthews-marner but love tkachuk-matthews.

tkachuk-matthews would be like movie where the villain putting together instrument to destroy world and everyone running around trying to stop him.

 

[notDatsyuk]

And dubas would have declined the same offer for Marner so I don't know why people are putting words into dubas' mouth.

Our equivalent offer would be Tavares 2 years ago + Brodie 2 years ago + 1st for EIGHT years of Matthew Tkachuk starting at 24 years old.

Who says no? Yeah I thought so. Cut the crap.


-- To be clear I am saying Dubas would be on the Florida won team, not on the pro-Dubas team. I get your boy Scoobz for this one.

Calgary, if they can stop laughing long enough.