Proposal: I was convinced that a Nylander for Tkachuk trade would have been a great opportunity for Dubas.

[BertCorbeau]

Look at the haul Calgary got. Do you think Toronto could have realistically matched that? I don't.

And Tkachuk clearly had a list of preferred destinations that Toronto wasn't on. Why give up a huge package just for him to leave anyway?

So unless Dubas could stop Florida from making that offer, and then force Tkachuk to sign an extension, how could we have ever landed him? This is laughable.

They could, they just should not have

 

[Doublerum1975]

Tkachuk is a better goal scorer and more physical than marner. Overall he's more impactful in most facets of the game except for playmaking.

So wrong you obviously don’t watch marner play lol

 

[All Mod Cons]

His hands were tied.

 

[TorMapleJays]

Everyone knows why he left Canada..... The sports talk shows have 300 million reasons not to talk about it though.

 

[hamzarocks]

Yes Lou gave Verhaeghe away with a few other prospects in a cap dump deal that got the Leafs Grabner

Verhaeghe was 5 minunies into his post junior career before the Leafs even gave him a shot to develop within the org.

And then Lou let him go again on the Island where Carter ended up signing with Tampa and winning a cup (IIRC). Then he signs with Florida and breaks out as a top 6 player.

Great story!

To be fair Dubas gave away marchment as well.

4 games then nothing

Marchment had a near ppg season.

Both leaf players given up too early by our GMs

 

[danny90]

Last season he had 42 goals and 62 assists, but i guess that's not impactful.

Oh my God.

They had the same goals per game and Marner had the same amount of assists in 10 less games, I’d say they are both impactful but Marner has a more complete game on both sides of the ice and historically tkachuk is not a better goal scorer

 

[Mess]

As much as I would have loved to have Tkachuk, but you can't stop an American born player returning home if they want to.

Tkachuk and Matthews would have been an unstoppable powerforward duo.

 

[saltming]

Fla gave up way too much. Weegar is top pairing. So 1st line forward, top pair defenseman former top 10 draft pick plus a 1st.
Yes they got 8 years of Matt but did serious damage to their defense. Other than age the forwards are pretty even but huberdeau produced in the playoff better than Tkachuk.
I would love Tkachuk on this team but that was too much imo
For what I think we need I would rather target his brother. Probably cheaper and I like his character better.
Also it will be fun watching Muzzin vs Tkachuk this season.

 

[meefer]

I can respect that.

__________

I think that the what if of a possible Nylander Tkachuk trade would address TOR's lack of toughness/grit.

It's not that I absolutely want Tkachuk. I absolutely want more toughness.

You do realize that using the word 'respect' in a responsible fashion is not accepted on this board. Well done! And then to support your view without attacking anyone...you're doomed kid, that type of sensible presentation marks you as a 'disturber' of the worst order, yes, I mean a reasonable poster. Good luck, and duck.

 

[Mess]

If the Leafs couldn't have Matty Tkachuk then it was at least previously when he was in the Western Conference ..

Now we have to face him 4 times in the Div and also his brother Brady in Ottawa 4 times.,

So this essentially doubles down on missing out and then now having to be on the wrong side of the physical side of Tkachuk.

 

[Coachcorner]

This trade would have put TOR over the top and would have addressed many areas of need.

Obviously the biggest factor is the cap and lack of assets.

It's not that the lack of a Tkachuk acquisition cancels Christmas, but this is just another knock on Shanahan who's clearly going against his own values.

I wish this team wasn't so downy soft. No one seems to be learning from the past and even the present.

We has to remember that there is also personel/chemisty/energy issues concerning teams and trades sire. There are a lot of toronto players like muzzin etc who don't luv tkachuk. Fights and brawls have come together. Sometimes a player ain't got because of others hating on a player. They are protecting the locker room and civilian life. Some human beings don't get a long, or belong together.

 

[BertCorbeau]

If the Leafs couldn't have Matty Tkachuk then it was at least previously when he was in the Western Conference ..

Now we have to face him 4 times in the Div and also his brother Brady in Ottawa 4 times.,

So this essentially doubles down on missing out and then now having to be on the wrong side of the physical side of Tkachuk.

On the positive side, Florida's defense is a lot weaker which should play well into the Leafs' offensive talents.

 

[Commander Clueless]

Florida had to take a hit to get Tkachuk. They got younger, but it definitely made their team worse in the now.

That defense without Weegar is pretty thin.


Barring some big emergences on the blueline, I think Florida takes a step back this year (still being a good team) and looks to make a big resurgence the year after when a lot of the dead money comes off their cap.



You could argue you might want the Leafs to do the same thing, but in order to do that, we'd be looking at a Tavares move (age group wise) and that's not something that would have worked in this scenario. I don't think we could have offered what Calgary needed, even assuming we could have convinced Tkachuk to sign in Toronto (very unlikely, given his desire to pull a Tavares).

The Leafs might need to look into doing something similar to retool an aging defense, but that wouldn't be on the same level of the stardom scale of what we just witnessed.

 

[Mess]

On the positive side, Florida's defense is a lot weaker which should play well into the Leafs' offensive talents.

True they were already one of the weaker teams defensively before the trade finishing 8th in Conference and 14th overall in goals against last year, our Leafs were 9th in East and 18th overall so Leafs might even be able to leapfrog them all depending on how our goaltending pans out.

Weeger gone, McDonough gone from TB ... Things are looking up in that regard.

 

[sxvnert]

No chance he moves any of that top four. Dubas would rather get fired than admit he was wrong.

 

[notbias]

No chance he moves any of that top four. Dubas would rather get fired than admit he was wrong.

Yep, exactly! All his signings are here for the duration of their contra..... wait a minute.

 

[Mess]

No chance he moves any of that top four. Dubas would rather get fired than admit he was wrong.

While having a player like Tkachuk on our top line would have changed the dynamics of the Leafs forwards significantly, we can't blame Dubas if Tkachuk didn't want to come here and instead decided to join the President's trophy team instead and return to his home country.

 

[AcerComputer]

These are the types of entitled posts/comments that drive other fanbases crazy. We were not invited to the party, and even if we were do you really think we were getting him at $9.5M? Try $11M to offset for the difference in taxes.

 

[kb]

Look at the haul Calgary got. Do you think Toronto could have realistically matched that? I don't.

And Tkachuk clearly had a list of preferred destinations that Toronto wasn't on. Why give up a huge package just for him to leave anyway?

So unless Dubas could stop Florida from making that offer, and then force Tkachuk to sign an extension, how could we have ever landed him? This is laughable.

/thread

It's ridiculous that posters are yet again taking shots at the GM for not trading for Tkachuk when they saw the price tag that it took, and that it is clear he did not want to be in Canada.

 

[kb]

To be fair Dubas gave away marchment as well.

4 games then nothing

Marchment had a near ppg season.

Both leaf players given up too early by our GMs

One thing people have to remember, once Marchment was called up, he was no longer waiver exempt. He was called up to replace an injured player.

So when the injured player came back, the Leafs only 2 options were to put Marchment on waivers or trade him.

Verhaghe was just given away. I thought he would have made a decent bottom sixer.

 

[34]

This was never an option. Matthew was never signing a contract in Toronto.

 

[BertCorbeau]

To be fair Dubas gave away marchment as well.

4 games then nothing

Marchment had a near ppg season.

Both leaf players given up too early by our GMs

One earlier than the other though. Marchment had at least an AHL track record to gauge, and he was also became eligible for waivers after his call up.

Would have been nice to give him more than 4 games though.

Verhaeghe wasn't given a fair shake at all in the pro's before being dumped. And it was peculiar since he was a centre coming out of junior and the Leafs' had a thin centre prospect pool.

 

[TheRumble]

Tkachuk is a better goal scorer and more physical than marner. Overall he's more impactful in most facets of the game except for playmaking.

Does anyone on this forum watch hockey outside of the Leafs?

If more people did this, we wouldn't have so many Leaf fans who have created this mythology around Matthew Tkachuk.

- He's not a playoff performer. Marner gets saddled with this reputation largely because he's a small, skilled, flashly player. Tkachuck does not because he's big and gritty. Look at the numbers, Marner outperforms him by magnitudes
- He's doesn't kill penalties. Marner does and was the the primary reason the Leafs PK was second in the league last in terms of limiting shots and first in the league in generating offensive chances.
- He's not as good defensively, He's not particularly bad but he's not good either. Marner is one of the best defensive wingers in the game, he's just overshadowed by Matthews.
- Tkachuk scored 7 more goals in 10 more games than Marner did (42 in 82 to 35 in 72), it's not that wide of a gap.
- They've played the same amount of games in the same number of seasons, neither player gets injured very often. Marner missed a bunch of games this year due to COVID protocols which have nothing to do with on ice play.
- His only clear advantage is he draws more penalties than Marner does.

There's a lot more to defense than counting stats but since a lot of you still judge players based on them, here's a short summary of how they compare defensively using Don Cherry logic

- Blocked shots, Marner had 31 to Tkachuk's 20
- Plus Minus - Tkachuk had 57 to Marner's 23
- Takeaways - Marner has 72 to Tkachuk's 41
- Giveaways - Marner despite being a volume passer has 63 giveaways vs Tkachuk's 91.

Factor in the analytics, Marner absolutely crushes Tkachuk defensively.

Now with all that said, also consider that Tkachuk is being paid $9.5 million vs Marner's $10.8 million. Marner might be overpaid but imagine someone significantly worse than him in almost every area of hockey that gets paid only $1.3 million less - and that's with the Florida Low Tax Discount, does Tkachuk + a hypothetical player that makes $1.3 million or less have more impact on the team than Marner?

 

[centipede2233]

Dude everyone here thinks Matthews, Marner and Nylander can't get it done in the playoffs and want to trade for Tkachuk? Out of the top tier EC teams last year we look like the only one that hasn't gotten noticeably worse.

Leafs lost more then you think.

 

[Holymakinaw]

This trade would have put TOR over the top and would have addressed many areas of need.

Obviously the biggest factor is the cap and lack of assets.

It's not that the lack of a Tkachuk acquisition cancels Christmas, but this is just another knock on Shanahan who's clearly going against his own values.

I wish this team wasn't so downy soft. No one seems to be learning from the past and even the present.

I would have liked that trade, but we'd have to add a lot, so........not worth it.