I never thought I would say this because at the time I was one of his biggest haters...

[Mitch Matthews]

Then it's on the players now. There is 0 excuses not to win tomorrow.

This is the first year this team has gone into round one as the prohibitive favorite. A loss tomorrow would be nothing short of a colossal failure

 

[socko]

OP can't be the biggest hater. I'm the bigger hater.

 

[Stephen]

It's similar to how we were early days. The problem was he didn't evolve as the team did and the Sens will need to do.

Truthfully he'd be a better fit somewhere like Philly right now with some talent that needs to get back to their grinding, pucks deep roots. He could go in and ride their depth players big minutes while sprinkling their talent on the PP and ES.

I think with the Sens there isn't an obvious superstar for the media to build up which may or may not work out to their advantage, but certainly helps keep the egos from growing. Whereas in Toronto that star power was something that really detracted from the serious program building a la Lamoriello/Trotz on the Islanders. A lot of the anti-Babcockisms boiled down to not using Matthews and Marner and Nylander in a way that would generate more personal stats and fan friendly line combinations. The favoritism Babcock showed to certain players isn't too different than Keefe continuing to go to the well with Thornton for example.

 

[Mickey Marner]

Babcock was a problem, but he was not the problem. His hubris was palpable, but so is our complacency.

 

[Gallagbi]

I think with the Sens there isn't an obvious superstar for the media to build up which may or may not work out to their advantage, but certainly helps keep the egos from growing. Whereas in Toronto that star power was something that really detracted from the serious program building a la Lamoriello/Trotz on the Islanders. A lot of the anti-Babcockisms boiled down to not using Matthews and Marner and Nylander in a way that would generate more personal stats and fan friendly line combinations. The favoritism Babcock showed to certain players isn't too different than Keefe continuing to go to the well with Thornton for example.

It's MUCH different

Keefe is playing Thornton on the 4th line with limited sheltered minutes. Babs was using his favourites, largely Komarov and Marleau, in key situations above the stars.

He's used Joe on the PP, but has also rolled out Willy in that spot at times as well.

Babcock played Marleau more than Matthews in an elimination game where we trailed.

He also had Komarov starting OTs and playing big minutes when he was here.

 

[Stephen]

It's MUCH different

Keefe is playing Thornton on the 4th line with limited sheltered minutes. Babs was using his favourites, largely Komarov and Marleau, in key situations above the stars.

He's used Joe on the PP, but has also rolled out Willy in that spot at times as well.

Babcock played Marleau more than Matthews in an elimination game where we trailed.

He also had Komarov starting OTs and playing big minutes when he was here.

Another example would be his utter failure to get Nylander ice time, playing him 7 minutes less than Marner the other game and struggling to give a reason as to why.

 

[Gallagbi]

Another example would be his utter failure to get Nylander ice time, playing him 7 minutes less than Marner the other game and struggling to give a reason as to why.

Nylander is still one of our top minute guys, he's just not getting Matthews minutes currently. These are not Babcock-esque issues.

We worried about the favourites getting top line minutes then. Now we worry about whether our 6th or 12th forward should be swapped. Whether our 3/4 forwards should get an extra minute or two.

 

[Stephen]

Nylander is still one of our too minute guys, he's just not getting Matthews minutes currently. These are not Babcock-esque issues.

We worried about the favourites getting top line minutes then. Now we worry about whether our 6th or 12th forward should be swapped. Whether our 3/4 forwards should get an extra minute or two.

Neither situation is/was ideal. Babcock didn't utilize his star players in the big moments, and Keefe is over using some of them to the point of diminishing returns. Knowing how M&M have no showed for Keefe, it's hard to figure out if he line matched or used them more sparingly if he would get more mileage. Or if Babcock knew something we don't and realize these guys just lose it in big moments.

 

[Gallagbi]

Neither situation is/was ideal. Babcock didn't utilize his star players in the big moments, and Keefe is over using some of them to the point of diminishing returns. Knowing how M&M have no showed for Keefe, it's hard to figure out if he line matched or used them more sparingly if he would get more mileage. Or if Babcock knew something we don't and realize these guys just lose it in big moments.

Nobody will say Keefe is perfect, I don't think any coach is, but I don't think his shortcomings are anything close to Babs for the exact reasons I've stated.

 

[OptimusReim]

Babcock may not have been the biggest problem, but I'm not sure his style of coaching would fix our issues, those being Marner and Mathews failing to show up in the playoffs year after year.

 

[Clark4Ever]

Price hasn't done shit. Hes blown a 3-0 and 2-0 lead in back to back games. Hes garbage just like the team in front of him.

Leafs are chokes. Thats it. Nothing else needed to explain this shitshow.

Any way you slice it, Price is really the only reason the series isn't over by now.

 

[Stephen]

Nobody will say Keefe is perfect, I don't think any coach is, but I don't think his shortcomings are anything close to Babs for the exact reasons I've stated.

My point is Babcock was a problem, but in hindsight I think the young core might be a problem too. Keefe is just pressing different buttons.

 

[Gallagbi]

My point is Babcock was a problem, but in hindsight I think the young core might be a problem too. Keefe is just pressing different buttons.

Actually your original point was the Thornton situation being Babcock-esque. And even with their questions, I still take Matthews on the ice over the Thornton/Marleau's of the world. I think the question now is whether they can step up. Before it was why we weren't even letting them try while weaker options were failing

 

[ORRFForever]

Nobody will say Keefe is perfect, I don't think any coach is, but I don't think his shortcomings are anything close to Babs for the exact reasons I've stated.

I prefer a tough coach for young players.

 

[Gallagbi]

I prefer a tough coach for young players.

I don't care. I want one who puts them team in a position to win. If there's better than Keefe out there I'm all ears, but from what I see he's been fine with the issues being execution primarily and not opportunities.

 

[ORRFForever]

I don't care. I want one who puts them team in a position to win. If there's better than Keefe out there I'm all ears, but from what I see he's been fine with the issues being execution primarily and not opportunities.

There's no point in replacing Keefe.

I just think Marner and Matthews would be better playoff performers if Babcock had stuck around and was allowed to use a heavier hand.

Anyway, it is what it is and let's hope we win tomorrow night.

 

[m1ker]

I don't care. I want one who puts them team in a position to win. If there's better than Keefe out there I'm all ears, but from what I see he's been fine with the issues being execution primarily and not opportunities.

Keefe stacked our first line in OT. Why would he stack them we weren’t down a goal? Nylander has rarely played with Matthews and Marner. Our depth is garbage if he’s going to stack the first line. Terrible decision imo.

 

[Gallagbi]

Keefe stacked our first line in OT. Why would he stack them we weren’t down a goal? Nylander has rarely played with Matthews and Marner. Our depth is garbage if he’s going to stack the first line. Terrible decision imo.

If I remember correctly it was off an icing when he stacked them and then quickly got them back to their regular rotation once the Habs were able to change

It's crazy, a few posts ago people are complaining about wanting to get Nylander with better players and more minutes, then you have this. I get we'll all have differing opinions, but trying to exploit a vulnerable situation is something a coach should be trying to do.

 

[m1ker]

If I remember correctly it was off an icing when he stacked them and then quickly got them back to their regular rotation once the Habs were able to change

It's crazy, a few posts ago people are complaining about wanting to get Nylander with better players and more minutes, then you have this.

No it wasn’t just one time. They had multiple shifts. Also it’s stupid when he does that it ruins the rotations for 5 minutes.

No ones asking him to rock the boat like that in OT

 

[Gallagbi]

No it wasn’t just one time. They had multiple shifts. Also it’s stupid when he does that it ruins the rotations for 5 minutes.

No ones asking him to rock the boat like that in OT

I'm pretty sure the icing was the only OT instance(s). Which is what you originally referenced. They did see some time late in regulation as well and we started to see if down 1, which again makes sense. We aren't rolling 2 lines and the rotation was usually out for a shift, but we also went down to 10fwds in OT, so lines were in a blender anyways.

 

[m1ker]

I'm pretty sure the icing was the only OT instance(s). Which is what you originally referenced. They did see some time late in regulation as well and we started to see if down 1, which again makes sense. We aren't rolling 2 lines and the rotation was usually out for a shift, but we also went down to 10fwds in OT, so lines were in a blender anyways.

I’d have to re-watch. Regardless with 20 minutes left why are you stacking 1 line when you only have 3 in rotation. Are you going to double shift someone to get rotations back?

 

[egd27]

well to be fair Colorado and Arizona both tried to hire Kyle Dubas at one point. I’m not a huge Dubas fan but let’s not pretend like he wasn’t a coveted GM. Teams around the league wanted to hire him. He was going to get a job that year whether it was with the leafs or somewhere else

And Nail Yakupov was a consensus first overall.....teams get it wrong all the time

 

[Dave92]

It's MUCH different

Keefe is playing Thornton on the 4th line with limited sheltered minutes. Babs was using his favourites, largely Komarov and Marleau, in key situations above the stars.

He's used Joe on the PP, but has also rolled out Willy in that spot at times as well.

Babcock played Marleau more than Matthews in an elimination game where we trailed.

He also had Komarov starting OTs and playing big minutes when he was here.

Marleau scored 2 goals in game 7.

 

[Gallagbi]

I’d have to re-watch. Regardless with 20 minutes left why are you stacking 1 line when you only have 3 in rotation. Are you going to double shift someone to get rotations back?

For a spark we didn't have. To get back on rotation we slide in that extra forward or go right to line 3 to get back on track. It really wasn't a problem at all last night

 

[Dreakmur]

Any way you slice it, Price is really the only reason the series isn't over by now.

Campbell has been just as good as Price.