I never thought I would say this because at the time I was one of his biggest haters...

[francis246]

The problem is that the Leafs hired a guy with NO front office experience to run a team. Shanahan is absolutely clueless. He then hired a guy who no other team would’ve hired to be their GM... and then he hired his buddy, which no other team would’ve hired.

The problem is that the Leafs have 3 people running this team, who should not be running an NHL organization.

well to be fair Colorado and Arizona both tried to hire Kyle Dubas at one point. I’m not a huge Dubas fan but let’s not pretend like he wasn’t a coveted GM. Teams around the league wanted to hire him. He was going to get a job that year whether it was with the leafs or somewhere else

 

[DavePoulin4PM]

well to be fair Colorado and Arizona both tried to hire Kyle Dubas at one point. I’m not a huge Dubas fan but let’s not pretend like he wasn’t a coveted GM. Teams around the league wanted to hire him. He was going to get a job that year whether it was with the leafs or somewhere else

No one tried to hire him as GM. Not a single team.

 

[Dayjobdave]

One could point out that our captain, who is our 1b center which is at the core of how the offence works by forcing the other teams defence to focus on two lines, is out.

If Babs was coaching, Jumbo would be getting 20 mins and Spezza would be in the press box so Riley Nash could play.

 

[Faltorvo]

Agreed, we can't keep making excuses for this loser team (especially after THAT effort in the first 50 minutes of this game). Good teams find a way to win.

There are 3 teams that massively paid their stars out of ELC
Buffalo
Edmonton
Toronto

and all 3 are looking like 3 of the biggest jokes in the league.

Makes me wonder what happens to elite talent when they get massively paid before any worthwhile team success.

 

[francis246]

No one tried to hire him as GM. Not a single team.

Friedman: Window closed for Kyle Dubas in Colorado - Sportsnet.ca

Colorado asked Toronto for permission to sign him and Shanny even gave them a deadline. Dubas chose to stay in Toronto. Both Buffalo and Arizona also wanted to hire him. This is common knowledge, I’m not sure how it’s evaded your memory

 

[17 Clark]

This is nuts,,,,,, to post that "EVERYONE whined" when that is clearly not even remotely close to fact

But a lot of people Did wine Babcocks making them earn their paycheque And it’s just not acceptable how dare Mike pick on them does he realize who they are and then when he did they got rid of him Because they’re spoiled entitled children they don’t wanna listen

 

[Mr Papagoergyo]

There are 3 teams that massively paid their stars out of ELC
Buffalo
Edmonton
Toronto

and all 3 are looking like 3 of the biggest jokes in the league.

Makes me wonder what happens to elite talent when they get massively paid before any worthwhile team success.

That is part of it, depth is the playoffs,ours is fine but not great. Reyling mostly on our stars to get us by isnt working. Injuries and players not playing up to potential have killed us.

 

[DavePoulin4PM]

Friedman: Window closed for Kyle Dubas in Colorado - Sportsnet.ca

Colorado asked Toronto for permission to sign him and Shanny even gave them a deadline. Dubas chose to stay in Toronto. Both Buffalo and Arizona also wanted to hire him. This is common knowledge, I’m not sure how it’s evaded your memory

Uh.... so.... are you going to post something supporting your claim that other teams wanted to hire Dubas as GM? Because your article doesn’t say that....

 

[Cor]

Mike Babcock was certainly part of the problem.


Issue is, we just may have not found the correct solution.

 

[meefer]

Babcock's biggest flaw is that Mike Babcock is Mike Babcock's biggest fan, and Mike Babcock only cares what Mike Babcock thinks of Mike Babcock and as long as Mike Babcock believes in Mike Babcock he won't change a thing.

He's still a way way way better coach than Keefe. Keefe is trash and won't be picked up when he's done with the Leafs. He's coached 4 elimination games and trailed by multi goals before his team scores in all of them, never has his team ready to go, idiotic lineup decisions overreactions left and right. He's been as much of a liability as anybody this series.

It's a more ridiculous comparison than Dubas and Lou.

That's some seriously good writing

 

[ORRFForever]

This is nuts,,,,,, to post that "EVERYONE whined" when that is clearly not even remotely close to fact

You know what I meant.

 

[Gallagbi]

Babs was a problem, but not the only one.

Just like Andersen's play was a problem, but not the only one.

You work through these issues to eliminate and improve

 

[Stephen]

Babs was a problem, but not the only one.

Just like Andersen's play was a problem, but not the only one.

You work through these issues to eliminate and improve

If you plugged Babcock into the Ottawa Senators rebuild that would have been more of a natural hockey fit. Bigger hockey team, more depth, less obvious star focus, team structure, balanced ice time and pack mentality. Harder to accomplish building a program based team on star power that the hockey media is also manufacturing into superstar personalities and your fanbase is clamoring for glamorous individual numbers and super friends duos and stacked lines.

 

[Gallagbi]

If you plugged Babcock into the Ottawa Senators rebuild that would have been more of a natural hockey fit. Bigger hockey team, more depth, less obvious star focus, team structure, balanced ice time and pack mentality. Harder to accomplish building a program based team on star power that the hockey media is also manufacturing into superstar personalities and your fanbase is clamoring for glamorous individual numbers and super friends duos and stacked lines.

It's similar to how we were early days. The problem was he didn't evolve as the team did and the Sens will need to do.

Truthfully he'd be a better fit somewhere like Philly right now with some talent that needs to get back to their grinding, pucks deep roots. He could go in and ride their depth players big minutes while sprinkling their talent on the PP and ES.

 

[rumman]

2015-2016, the team's top line was Leo Komarov ~ Nazem Kadri ~ P.A. Parenteau

That time frame between then and now? The Leafs have not been anywhere close to be contenders. You can throw all the smoke and mirrors up you like.
But there's only two reasons why someone would promote the fact the Leafs were contenders earlier. 1. To sell the franchise to the fans. 2. To pretend the Leafs had a chance so you can torment their fans. Nobody outside of that would believe they could do anything. This might be the first season you're starting to see some of the star players buying into defense. This could go down as
a disappoints, but it really should be considered the Leafs first real kick at the can which has been severely hampered by some key injuries.

when your up to your neck in s**t, complaining about the smell doesn't help, but what really doesn't help is being so deluded that you convince yourself it smells like roses. Win or lose game 7 this team has no heart and serious cap distribution problems.........

 

[Suntouchable13]

One thing he was right about is the ice time distribution. You can play some guys 24-25 minutes a night in the playoffs, but that doesn't equal more production. He was totally right about that.

 

[rumman]

bingo

I knew Babcock was a goner when they made him go out to the desert and wash AM's feet. No way his ego could take that, and solidified 34's entitlement going forward............

 

[nuck]

This fanbase is nuts.

We had Babcock and everyone whined that he was too hard on the players. Now everyone wants him back? Good Lord.

Nobody wants him back but the game 7 losses that were being stapled to him seem more questionable now, given this Habs team couldn't carry the jockstraps of the two Bruins lineups that beat then Leafs. The D, even minus Muzzin, is good, and the support players are a better group than the Babcock ever had. The fact Marner hasn't scored a playoff goal since Babcock just rubs some salt in it but what it really means is, minus the horrible last 23 games, Babs not being the right fit for the club might not have been the biggest thing holding them back. I blame the Bruins losses more on Kadri and Andersen than on Babcock and I am not alone in this, but that doesn't mean he could have accomplished anything more than maybe getting to the second round. Does the coach have a strong system that fits with the lineup he is given, and does he have the player's buy-in? No and no to Babs and Keefe's story isn't written yet.

 

[Mitch Matthews]

I knew Babcock was a goner when they made him go out to the desert and wash AM's feet. No way his ego could take that, and solidified 34's entitlement going forward............

"I've seen ya play kid....ya got a good thing goin....you're a hell of a player but just remember, the day your talent exceeds your work ethic is the day you begin to run yourself out of this business"

Mike Babcock to Auston Matthews

 

[Menzinger]

We went from breaking franchise point records to not making the playoffs last year. You have an odd definition of a problem. And the solution was to get rid of Lou and Babs....to bring on 2 guys that have never done their jobs in the league at any capacity. You understand how insane that is right?

It's like a company that's doing well firing a proven CEO and CFO to hire 2 dudes from Princeton's cafeteria.

And the team won the division this year. Regular season accomplishments are nice but he wasn't able to deliver in the post season three times in a row. And worse, he was the highest paid hockey coach in history and he lost the dressing room in less than 5 years on the job. That's a fundamental failure of the basic level for any coach.

Keefe may not end up being the answer for the Leafs, but I really don't get this longing for old coaches who also didn't work

 

[The Apologist]

We got this - Marner OT

Marners going to the Other Team?

 

[hockeyes]

The problem with these types of discussions is we don't know what goes on behind closed doors. We can judge Babcock on his game decisions but we don't really know the honest rational behind everything.

It's not difficult to imagine a scenario where Babcock was undermined by players running to the GM crying about his methods. It seemed pretty evident a divide was forming between Dubas and Babcock long before he was fired, maybe a few decided to use that for leverage. It's also not difficult to imagine a scenario where Babcock just sucked at his job and the players kind of suck too.

 

[Mitch Matthews]

And the team won the division this year. Regular season accomplishments are nice but he wasn't able to deliver in the post season three times in a row. And worse, he was the highest paid hockey coach in history and he lost the dressing room in less than 5 years on the job. That's a fundamental failure of the basic level for any coach.

Keefe may not end up being the answer for the Leafs, but I really don't get this longing for old coaches who also didn't work

Not here to defend Babcock but to say he didn't deliver in the post season three years in a row without context is simply wrong. In 2017 they lost to a more experienced playoff team, the Caps. In 2018 and 2019 they lost to a more experienced and better team in the Bruins, both times in 7 games

 

[Suntouchable13]

Not here to defend Babcock but to say he didn't deliver in the post season three years in a row without context is simply wrong. In 2017 they lost to a more experienced playoff team, the Caps. In 2018 and 2019 they lost to a more experienced and better team in the Bruins, both times in 7 games

Then it's on the players now. There is 0 excuses not to win tomorrow.

 

[Menzinger]

Not here to defend Babcock but to say he didn't deliver in the post season three years in a row without context is simply wrong. In 2017 they lost to a more experienced playoff team, the Caps. In 2018 and 2019 they lost to a more experienced and better team in the Bruins, both times in 7 games

Then folks need to stop holding up that 2018 season record as any sort of accomplishment. Beacuse either the Leafs had a good team that set organizational record (but couldn't get it done in the playoffs), or they were always a lesser team that wasnt expected to advance. It can't be both.

I'd absolutely agree that the Caps and Bruins were hard opponents (no argument there).