I never thought I would say this because at the time I was one of his biggest haters...

[markh100]

Andersen was equally good last season vs CLB (.936) and he was better in the second Boston series where he posted a .926, that was a WAY higher level of difficulty than this crappy montreal team.

 

[centipede2233]

But based on your reasoning, shouldn't they all be fired already? Or will you change your mind if they win?

No I won’t change my mind if they win. It took them 7 games to beat a team who wouldn’t even had made the playoffs in a normal non COVID type year. If you think this leafs team is going to magically go on a cup run, you will be dissapointed. Also, shanahan and dubas should already been fired, but it’s not my decision, it’s a results oriented business and if Toronto doesn’t find any playoff success soon, there will be changes, just like the other GM’s and presidents before them.

 

[Boxscore]

But maybe Babcock wasn't the problem with this team.[MOD]

Babcock wasn't "the" problem in Toronto but he was a problem. Seems to me that the young core couldn't relate to -- or were not willing to follow -- Babcock. That is a problem. It could be more of a reflection on the kids but it was a problem that needed to be addressed. Could the Leafs have kept Babcock and traded Marner and Nylander for slightly older players with a different outlook? I guess. But unless you're bringing in character guys like Scheifele or one of the Tkachuks, why take the risk?

 

[Faltorvo]

Nobody wants him back but the game 7 losses that were being stapled to him seem more questionable now, given this Habs team couldn't carry the jockstraps of the two Bruins lineups that beat then Leafs. The D, even minus Muzzin, is good, and the support players are a better group than the Babcock ever had. The fact Marner hasn't scored a playoff goal since Babcock just rubs some salt in it but what it really means is, minus the horrible last 23 games, Babs not being the right fit for the club might not have been the biggest thing holding them back. I blame the Bruins losses more on Kadri and Andersen than on Babcock and I am not alone in this, but that doesn't mean he could have accomplished anything more than maybe getting to the second round. Does the coach have a strong system that fits with the lineup he is given, and does he have the player's buy-in? No and no to Babs and Keefe's story isn't written yet.

Keefe's story isn't written yet???

Dude,,,, his story just ended, Keefe HAS TO GO!!!!

In 1.5 seasons Keefe has failed to make the POs and just had the worst 1rst round exit i have seen in my 50 years watching the leafs.

 

[Faltorvo]

Babcock wasn't "the" problem in Toronto but he was a problem. Seems to me that the young core couldn't relate to -- or were not willing to follow -- Babcock. That is a problem. It could be more of a reflection on the kids but it was a problem that needed to be addressed. Could the Leafs have kept Babcock and traded Marner and Nylander for slightly older players with a different outlook? I guess. But unless you're bringing in character guys like Scheifele or one of the Tkachuks, why take the risk?

I think this roster needs torts,,,FK the over paid sucks feelings.

 

[baton elevated]

I think this roster needs torts,,,FK the over paid sucks feelings.

Unfortunately Torts will not instantaneously make the players tougher or go to the dirty areas. Our players are not cut from that cloth, it's that simple. He will bring stradigy and structure however. Witness Laine for example, he is what he is and Torts can't change that. IMO

 

[nuck]

Keefe's story isn't written yet???

Dude,,,, his story just ended, Keefe HAS TO GO!!!!

In 1.5 seasons Keefe has failed to make the POs and just had the worst 1rst round exit i have seen in my 50 years watching the leafs.

Yeah that was before game 7 punched his ticket. If you look at Keefe's coaching record at other levels he had some great seasons but never had the big stars until he came to the Leafs and he hasn't figured it out yet.

 

[Trapper]

I think this roster needs torts,,,FK the over paid sucks feelings.

Torts won’t make any difference if you don’t have a GM on the same page.

Both Coach/GM need the same core accountability program to succeed.

Dubas is far to big brother to make the necessary changes both in term of cap and playoff work ethic. He won’t be prepared to make any necessary core changes (I’d be shocked) as long as he’s here. He makes promises and hugs.

 

[Faltorvo]

Torts won’t make any difference if you don’t have a GM on the same page.

Both Coach/GM need the same core accountability program to succeed.

Dubas is far to big brother to make the necessary changes both in term of cap and playoff work ethic. He won’t be prepared to make any necessary core changes (I’d be shocked) as long as he’s here. He makes promises and hugs.

wait! you think doogy houser survives this?

keefe and dumbass HAVE TO GO!

 

[Faltorvo]

Unfortunately Torts will not instantaneously make the players tougher or go to the dirty areas. Our players are not cut from that cloth, it's that simple. He will bring stradigy and structure however. Witness Laine for example, he is what he is and Torts can't change that. IMO

good, then you truly learn what you have in players and ship out the losers like Marner

as for the "instantaneous" ,WHO THE HELL CARES,, This is NOT a cup contending team

and they sure as hell won't be one next year either,,so bite the damn bullet and get on with ripping off the band aids

 

[Scott r]

If Montreal wins this, everyone, and I do mean everyone from shanahan to dubas and to Keefe should be fired. They are all culpable, shanahan the most culpable as he is the president. The marner and matthews contracts are brutal, and I thought that before COVID came along forcing a flat cap ....

So fire mgmt when they had a pretty good record and the scoring leader..and went 7 games in series bc of 2 freaky ot plays...we r exaggerating

 

[Faltorvo]

Babcock wasn't "the" problem in Toronto but he was a problem. Seems to me that the young core couldn't relate to -- or were not willing to follow -- Babcock. That is a problem. It could be more of a reflection on the kids but it was a problem that needed to be addressed. Could the Leafs have kept Babcock and traded Marner and Nylander for slightly older players with a different outlook? I guess. But unless you're bringing in character guys like Scheifele or one of the Tkachuks, why take the risk?

WTH , the young core did not follow keefe either,soooo

 

[Trapper]

wait! you think doogy houser survives this?

keefe and dumbass HAVE TO GO!

In all my time as a Leaf fan yes, I think Dubas and the core are back next year. Cause that’s just how things go here.

They make some offseason moves that get half the fans going oohhhh, we are good now and get ready for the boom.

That’s what I’ve come to expect yes.
Do I like? Nope.

 

[Scott r]

Nyr fired davidson..Columbus re hired him in 2 weeks. We are wasting time with this front office changes

 

[FabledKnight]

If there was a time to let Dubas go now would be good with Gorton available.

Would need to be quick to make a coach change as Gallant will get picked up soon.

There really any other upgrades available. If Shanny takes awhile to reach a conclusion that changes are needed we are most likely down grading in personnel

 

[2 Slick]

I was wrong as well. I said Matthews and Marner should play together after their regular season success together. Then I saw them be absolutely invisible for six of the seven games in the playoffs. Keefe decided not to change it up.

I give Babcock credit, he wasn't scared to move Marner away from Matthews.

IF Marner stays, he needs to go back on a line with Tavares.

Still not a fan of Babcock though, I still believe he was part of the problem.

 

[JohnnyBerts]

If there was a time to let Dubas go now would be good with Gorton available.

Would need to be quick to make a coach change as Gallant will get picked up soon.

There really any other upgrades available. If Shanny takes awhile to reach a conclusion that changes are needed we are most likely down grading in personnel

I personally don’t think Toronto is good enough for there to be a serious amount of blame but I will blame the Toronto coaching staff for not addressing the power play. Utterly devastating and we saw it coming months ago.

However, I’d rather have Gorton and Gallant over Dubas & Keefe.

 

[Mr Papagoergyo]

Keefe's story isn't written yet???

Dude,,,, his story just ended, Keefe HAS TO GO!!!!

In 1.5 seasons Keefe has failed to make the POs and just had the worst 1rst round exit i have seen in my 50 years watching the leafs.

Never see Keefe directing players after shifts like other coaches, correcting a missed play or showing them how or what can be done.
Compared to Torts last year when facing Columbus he was in players ears all night.

 

[baton elevated]

good, then you truly learn what you have in players and ship out the losers like Marner

as for the "instantaneous" ,WHO THE HELL CARES,, This is NOT a cup contending team

and they sure as hell won't be one next year either,,so bite the damn bullet and get on with ripping off the band aids

Of course, I agree. This core is not championship material. All I'm saying is to change the make of the current team it will take alot of moves. Need a new GM and coach to make those necessary moves. Torts wouldn't work here because the culture would not buy in. We already know who the culture guys are, bypass Tort's and get a coach that is half new school and half old school. Tort's is too old school. Sutter in Calgary I don't believe will be effective.

 

[Faltorvo]

Of course, I agree. This core is not championship material. All I'm saying is to change the make of the current team it will take alot of moves. Need a new GM and coach to make those necessary moves. Torts wouldn't work here because the culture would not buy in. We already know who the culture guys are, bypass Tort's and get a coach that is half new school and half old school. Tort's is too old school. Sutter in Calgary I don't believe will be effective.

but that's the thing,this "culture" has not EARNED APPEASEMENT

it's NOW, right now,,when shanny needs to step in and flush this culture

dumbass/keefe and ANY player that quits on Torts

Hell, own up to your f*** up shanny and hire back Babs

 

[Blanche Blanche]

In all my time as a Leaf fan yes, I think Dubas and the core are back next year. Cause that’s just how things go here.

They make some offseason moves that get half the fans going oohhhh, we are good now and get ready for the boom.

That’s what I’ve come to expect yes.
Do I like? Nope.

I’d be careful. Jay’s went from packed stadiums and every item and merch was sold out everywhere. Blue jay cap on every bandwagon fan.

Now blue jays merch is UNSEEN.

you see raptors cause they won.

even this year how many leaf banners were around by the time Gm 6 was there?

No big changes. Keefe, or Marner. Good talented tough hockey style signings.

I’m not gonna watch or care. Leafs gear will be at the back of my closet.

 

[Transplanted Caper]

Re-litigating Babcock is a waste of time. He lost the room with his mind games and belittling of players. Not to mention being obstinate with the front office, even after Shanahan went to bat for him and gave him another chance heading into last season.

 

[Mess]

But maybe Babcock wasn't the problem with this team.

It took me a while to come to grips with it. [MOD]

I would have like to see Babcock behind the bench with this current player personnel and roster at his disposal.

Not until this last season did Dubas actually cave away with his small skilled skating team to one that could be playoff contenders if coached properly.

Babcock was always asking for more players that play a heavy playoff game, some better depth on D and reliable goaltending and it seemed Dubas purposely took away players Babs liked and brought in Petan and Malgin and other types he had no use for. However for Keefe now he goes out of his way to bring in the very type players Brodie, Bogosian and Simmonds and Foligno and Campbell etc, that Babcock could only dream of getting to deploy come playoff time.

Babcock is still under contract to the Leafs until the end of 2023 so nothing stopping him from being re-inserted behind the bench to play out his contract for a couple of years.. It wouldn't be the 1st time a team brought back a former coach.

Fans are starting to realize this might have not been as much a coaching issue but rather a personnel one.

 

[Aus34Matt]

Babcock is smiling somewhere saying "I told you so". He's not wrong when he said there will be pain so he gets the last laugh.

We probably would've been better off with Hunter as the GM running the show had Shanny picked him over Dubas.

- PP wouldn't have been as stagnant as we've seen
- At least 3 Hyman-type players vs. 1 Marner (his dad force a trade, free up 11M cap)
- Matthews and Willy pairing
- Past 2nd round by now... etc

They'd be VGK or COL caliber team by now... players need to suck it up and think about winning.

 

[Boxscore]

WTH , the young core did not follow keefe either,soooo

I agree with you -- they are a big part of the problem. But Babcock wasn't perfect either. Do I think Babcock is a better coach than Keefe? Of course. Do I think Babcock should have been fired? No. But if the young kids loathed him and tuned him out; it's easier to fire the coach than trade 7-8 players.