I don't like too many threads but HYMAN and BABCOCK

[Leaf Fans]

100% agree.. take a poll and I'm sure 95% of coaches would have preferred Par Lindholm going into the playoffs over Nic Petan too..but Dubas traded Par Lindholm for Petan at the deadline giving Babcock one less defensively responsible center going into the playoffs.

Don't get me wrong I like Dubas...But I think had he targeted babs players, maybe we may have won a series or two.

That is a made up statistic, but I agree Lindholm would have been a better playoff performer than Petan. Dubas does like the Pending UFA for RFA deal. He did it again with thr VV deal. He wasn't really a difference maker with Winnipeg though.

 

[justloveleafs]

Some people need to develop nuance in their positions. You don’t have to attack any thought that actually might suggest the bad man did a good thing. Absolutely, Babcock deserves some credit for Hyman’s ascendancy and guess what Zach would agree. It’s okay.

Snowflakes.

Big thanks to you.

 

[Cleetus]

Thats called biases and makes that person look bad.

yup just like saying the fans are the reasons why Dubas brought in grit instead of skill

 

[frog]

I don't think I can remember a more hated player than Hyman the early years. I remember everytime I mentioned his name people would call him barely an ahl player, babcocks son, 4th line scrub, puck dies on his stick, etc... He was truly not liked and that was like only a couple years ago

 

[DarkKnight]

I don't think I can remember a more hated player than Hyman the early years. I remember everytime I mentioned his name people would call him barely an ahl player, babcocks son, 4th line scrub, puck dies on his stick, etc... He was truly not liked and that was like only a couple years ago

I loved calling him Keefe’s son when he also played him in the top 6. I very much recall people relentlessly slagging the guy, but I just attributed it too cluelessness about the game, then the wonder coach Keefe mirrored the bad man and confirmed the nonsensical takes here. Too funny.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

Some people need to develop nuance in their positions. You don’t have to attack any thought that actually might suggest the bad man did a good thing. Absolutely, Babcock deserves some credit for Hyman’s ascendancy and guess what Zach would agree. It’s okay.

Snowflakes.

In today's cancel culture...anything you did that is now considered bad negates EVERYTHING good you have ever done. It's ridiculous that we have come to this...but yet here we are.

 

[Bomber0104]

I don't think I can remember a more hated player than Hyman the early years. I remember everytime I mentioned his name people would call him barely an ahl player, babcocks son, 4th line scrub, puck dies on his stick, etc... He was truly not liked and that was like only a couple years ago

Yup.

Any Matthews thread you can find from 2016 to about 2018 is basically littered with Hyman hate.

Needless to say there's been a seismic shift in how he's perceived now, with a lot of posters doing a total 180 in how they talk about him in present time.

 

[DarkKnight]

In today's cancel culture...anything you did that is now considered bad negates EVERYTHING good you have ever done. It's ridiculous that we have come to this...but yet here we are.

It’s a lot simpler I guess to live in a black and white world. That’s not the real world though. I mean nobody was unhappy when the bad man finally left, but he didn’t do everything wrong, nor is another guy infallible. It’s a weird way to be...

Hyman was great for Babs, so was Keefe. They both see what he brings, grit, heart, relentless desire and some skill. He’s a core type player.

 

[IPS]

Dubas did not go out of his way to acquire Hyman. Look at Dubas' press conference for this TDL. His hockey philosophy has changed to what he thought earlier i.e. just skill and nothing else.

Hyman wasn't a "skilled" player; Dubas would not have traded for him if it wasn't for Babcock.

I have given dubas plenty of credit this off season and the TDL; don't think that everything dubas does is a home run or the best thing ever unlike some posters

Holy f*** man just quit while you're ahead.

 

[moon111]

There was nothing wrong with what Babcock wanted for the team.

However he acted like someone who grew up on some rural farm where your dad would beat you silly with his belt if you misbehaved. He just couldn't use positives to make his players want what he wanted. He demanded it. You do that to city kids born in the late `90's??? Yeah good luck with that. Old players use to go to the bench, these guys grew up going to the 'safe-zone'.

Babcock wanted 'Hyman' out of a lot of players. He couldn't get it. He just couldn't change with the times to do his job.

 

[TheProspector]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure Dubas, who traded for him, would have had a hand in getting him some usage.

Hyman truly hasn't been the player he is this season, though, until.... this season. When he basically just figured out he's Marian Hossa.

 

[saltming]

All I have to say is #50pointhyman

 

[justloveleafs]

This didn't really go the way I was hoping for. Okay Question really is. Would an old AHLer like Hyman, have gotten to the show, or gotten to this kind of stature, without a guy, we all liked at one time, and now almost unanimously, don't like.

As I said, I was not a fan of Hyman initially

Now........ I didn't care about the game at all yesterday.

Just cared about him.

Have to give pretty well Hyman hater credit, after he scored that end to end against Boston.

LEAFNATION, collectively, stfu. Me included

I do side with many a poster here, saying that, Muzzin watching from the bench.

Others ,all watching what went on.

If LILJEGREN, had seen that from the bench, he would have jumped over, and beaten up the worst NHL Swede, since
ulf

Muzzin turned his face.

No one jumped the boards.

Not a good statement.

Liljegren is our toughest dman. I know Sheldon you are managing elc and cap.

I know a bit about liljegren.

He is a physical beast, he would kill Edler.

Is he happy being second fiddle, dunno.

All I can say , is that this guy can crush, when he gets the chance. And be ahead of the play.

 

[justloveleafs]

Liljegren and Sandin are going to be our number one and two dmen in two years.

On the sly I can only say that both of them are being turned into gym beasts.

Don't think 3 or 4 for either of them.

This is a Dubas project, all the way.

 

[CapspaceKiller]

Never got the initial hate for Hyman when he played with Willy and Auston. He was solid defensively, could keep up with them speed wise and was physical. He also had a ridiculous sense or ability of being around the puck. It seemed like every time he would be the one with the puck or right next to it. People made it sound like the time Quinn tried to force Paul Healey on Mats Sundin.

And f*** Mike Babcock, egomaniac weirdo

 

[Leafs1991]

People on these boards would trash Hyman if he didn't give those 2 the puck. They disliked Hyman playing with them and blamed him for holding those 2 back from being their best. They believed Hyman wouldn't have as big of a role with Keefe and Dubas running things and they were wrong. They just don't like to admit that maybe Babcock was a better coach than people on these boards gave him credit for. New coach now and have the same problems though.

To be fair, while he was a good puck retriever, his early years showed he had terrible hands, made bad mistakes/decisions quite often, and couldn't shoot/pass very well. They were very fair criticisms. I've always loved how hard he forechecks but not that he has developed the other aspects of his game, he has become close to my favourite player on the team.

 

[Bomber0104]

To be fair, while he was a good puck retriever, his early years showed he had terrible hands, made bad mistakes/decisions quite often, and couldn't shoot/pass very well. They were very fair criticisms. I've always loved how hard he forechecks but not that he has developed the other aspects of his game, he has become close to my favourite player on the team.

Actually no, those were not fair criticisms at all.

Hyman came into the league at the same time Marner and Matthews did.

Why the hell would you have expected a finished product?

 

[Mats13]

The person who deserves credit for Hyman’s success is Hyman

You don’t improve this much because of any coach. It’s hard work and dedication.

As for who’s responsible for him being a Leaf, that’s clearly Dubas. Babcock didn’t even know who Hyman was before Dubas acquired him.

 

[Bomber0104]

The person who deserves credit for Hyman’s success is Hyman

You don’t improve this much because of any coach. It’s hard work and dedication.

As for who’s responsible for him being a Leaf, that’s clearly Dubas. Babcock didn’t even know who Hyman was before Dubas acquired him.

Incorrect.

Hyman was playing next door to Babcock in Michigan and already had a relationship with him and his NCAA coach prior to both joining the Leafs.

Cool story though.

 

[Mats13]

One can argue Babcock the person, but as a coach I believe he was a smart hockey man and knows what it takes to Win. He was just unlikeable.

The more experience Dubas gets, the closer to a Babcock roster he is assembling. Babs would love Riley Nash and Foligno. .

First off he’s not a good coach (or hockey man). He coached the offence right out of Team Canada and we barely beat Latvia. How do you get credit for barely winning with Team f***ing Canada??

As for his NHL track record, he had one of the best teams of the last 20-30 years and he managed 1 Cup. Ask any red wings fan, that was well short of expectation. A good coach would’ve won at least 3.

He’s not a smart hockey man at all, he’s just an incredibly overrated coach.

 

[Mats13]

Incorrect.

Hyman was playing next door to Babcock in Michigan and already had a relationship with him and his NCAA coach prior to both joining the Leafs.

Cool story though.

Nope

SIMMONS: Finding Zach Hyman. The story behind the trade that brought him to Toronto | Toronto Sun

It was Dubas. Cool story though.

“That was Dubas, who was already familiar with Hyman. In his brief time as a player agent, Hyman happened to be one of his clients. “At the time, we were in the mode of trying to collect as many prospects as possible. That was our mindset as an organization,” said Dubas, looking back. “We thought he could help us.””

 

[Mess]

look at dubas and hymans history. see when dubas was working as an agent who were his clients. if you want to claim that hyman is a leaf beause dubas that is incorrect. you can claim that all you want doesn't make it true.

many stories have said that babcock wanted hyman because he saw hyman play alot when he coached the redwings.

What’s the connection to Toronto? Thought number 23 from Eilliote Friedman’s most recent 30 Thoughts post:

23. A couple more NCAA notes: Michigan senior forward Zach Hyman is eligible to become an unrestricted free agent Aug. 16 if not signed by the team that drafted him, Florida. In a bit of a surprise, it sure sounds like he will test the market rather than go directly to the Panthers. In some way, Florida should take that as a compliment because they have so many prospects that the route for young players is now tougher.

You always look for relationships, too. This is purely a guess, but Hyman is from Toronto and his previous “advisor” (no agents in the NCAA, wink, wink) was Kyle Dubas. I could be overthinking it, but what the heck.

 

[Bomber0104]

Nope

SIMMONS: Finding Zach Hyman. The story behind the trade that brought him to Toronto | Toronto Sun

It was Dubas. Cool story though.

“That was Dubas, who was already familiar with Hyman. In his brief time as a player agent, Hyman happened to be one of his clients. “At the time, we were in the mode of trying to collect as many prospects as possible. That was our mindset as an organization,” said Dubas, looking back. “We thought he could help us.””

Yeah so you'll have to point out the part where it says "Babcock didn't even know who Hyman was" (your words) because I'm not seeing it..

 

[Leafs1991]

Actually no, those were not fair criticisms at all.

Hyman came into the league at the same time Marner and Matthews did.

Why the hell would you have expected a finished product?

Yes, those are fair criticisms for any player coming into the league and looking to improve their own play. He would have received the exact same criticism from his coaches.

It's not about expecting a finished player but about seeing if the player is going to be an NHLer and/or an impact player. Those were things he wasn't good at and he's improved upon them, if he hadn't he wouldn't be in the league, or at the very least a 4th liner.

You saying these aren't fair criticisms because he's a rookie is basically saying that we can't criticize players lol. Thats insane.

 

[Bomber0104]

Yes, those are fair criticisms for any player coming into the league and looking to improve their own play. He would have received the exact same criticism from his coaches.

It's not about expecting a finished player but about seeing if the player is going to be an NHLer and/or an impact player. Those were things he wasn't good at and he's improved upon them, if he hadn't he wouldn't be in the league, or at the very least a 4th liner.

You saying these aren't fair criticisms because he's a rookie is basically saying that we can't criticize players lol. Thats insane.

Alright.

I'll have to remember that the next time a rookie breaks onto this roster.

If he's not a fully developed NHL player right out of the gate (offensively or defensively), then he's destined to be a 4th liner, should be called the coach's son, have his spot on the team constantly called into question, etc. etc.

Now that I know what "fair criticism" counts as, I feel kind of bad for Robertson and Sandin and what's in store for them...