Hypothetical Russia WJC

[Hanji]

NO POLITICS OR ANYTHING RELATED TO RUSSIA’S SUSPENSION.
Don't hijack the thread by posting anything other than comments about players, or how the roster compares to other nations’.

So what prospects make the cut? Maybe something like this?

But - Demidov - Artamonov
Chernyshev - Ilyin - Rimashevsky
Mukhanov - Surin - Rykov
Avramov - Kozlov - Khanin

Simashev - Gulyayev
Silayev - Shuravin
Ishimnikov - Shchuchinov

Zavragin
Volokhin

They’ve super good D. Quite the rarity for Russia. Great G and arguably the best F in the tournament in Demidov.

Click to read more...

 

[Zine]

Not a bad guess. The 2005 generation is quite deep so there’d be many candidates. The locks IMO
Demidov
Artamonov
Ilyin
But
Surin
Rimashevsky
Mukhanov
Chernyshov (if healthy)
Rykov
Silayev
Simashev
Gulyayev
Zavragin

Along with Canada this team would be one of the favorities for gold… at least on paper.

 

[lilidk]

Is any 2025 draft available I should pay attention

 

[Caser]

Demidov-Surin-But
Rykov-Ilyin-Artamonov
Chernyshov*-Ryabkin-Rimashevskiy
Mukhanov-Gorbunov-Susuyev
Kozlov, Gridin
*since Chernyshov is injured with no return date, then maybe Khanin instead

Simashev-Gulyayev
Kudashov-Silayev
Shuravin-Ulyev
Shchuchinov-Kol

Zavragin
Volokhin
Andreyanov

Overall not as amazing depth as it would be for the 2003 born team, but still I like it more than the 2004 born crop (which was decent and would've had Michkov and Miroshnichenko, but sort of lacked depth).

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Likely a Gold medal contender.

Too bad.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Good for bronze or fourth place.

 

[WayTooCold]

That team would be gold medal candidate easily.

 

[Czechboy]

Fantastic and deep roster. Strong in every position. They would've been up there with the fantastic rosters coming from Canada/US/Sweden this year as I believe those rosters will be stacked as well! Definite medal contender.

 

[Caser]

Fantastic and deep roster. Strong in every position. They would've been up there with the fantastic rosters coming from Canada/US/Sweden this year as I believe those rosters will be stacked as well! Definite medal contender.

To be fair, depth at D is not exactly that amazing this year, but GK and FWs are pretty good, yes.

 

[novisor]

I am not as familiar with Russian prospects and the biggest cause of this is the ban from the WJC (and other international competition). Theses athletes did nothing wrong and I absolutely hate that there are really only 4 teams that can win the tournament any more (though it has been good to see the Czech's step up). Every year it was the question of who wouldn't make it to the semi's between Canada/USA/Sweden/Finland/Russia, now it's largely a given unless you have an upset like you did last year.

 

[Czechboy]

I am not as familiar with Russian prospects and the biggest cause of this is the ban from the WJC (and other international competition). Theses athletes did nothing wrong and I absolutely hate that there are really only 4 teams that can win the tournament any more (though it has been good to see the Czech's step up). Every year it was the question of who wouldn't make it to the semi's between Canada/USA/Sweden/Finland/Russia, now it's largely a given unless you have an upset like you did last year.

Last 3 years... Czechs are 4th, silver and bronze. I do agree with your sentiment though. I just like pointing out we haven't totally sucked 3 in a row.lol I'm sure we'll regress though.

 

[novisor]

Last 3 years... Czechs are 4th, silver and bronze. I do agree with your sentiment though. I just like pointing out we haven't totally sucked 3 in a row.lol I'm sure we'll regress though.

It's been a nice surprise, the better the competition the better the tourney is. Hard to say if all of these results would've happened with Russia though. Regression to the mean is likely ahead - which if other teams don't step up (Switzerland, Germany, Slovakia, etc.) may put pressure to reinstate Russia.

 

[Albatros]

Russia last won in 2011 and before that 2003 so it's not like they've been a powerhouse either. Czechia and Sweden are the only teams that have made the semifinals each of last three years. Slovakia has been fine the last few years despite being stuck in the quarterfinals. Switzerland also lost to finalists Sweden only after OT last year.

 

[novisor]

Russia last won in 2011 and before that 2003 so it's not like they've been a powerhouse either. Czechia and Sweden are the only teams that have made the semifinals each of last three years. Slovakia has been fine the last few years despite being stuck in the quarterfinals. Switzerland also lost to finalists Sweden only after OT last year.

Sure. Doesn't mean the tournament isn't better served with Russia in it though. The 2020 final of Russia vs Canada was an all time classic. 2015 was great too. They've silvered a number of times since their last win.

 

[Caser]

Russia last won in 2011 and before that 2003 so it's not like they've been a powerhouse either. Czechia and Sweden are the only teams that have made the semifinals each of last three years. Slovakia has been fine the last few years despite being stuck in the quarterfinals. Switzerland also lost to finalists Sweden only after OT last year.

In the last 10 times when Russia participated (so 2013-2022) they won 0 golds, 3 silvers, 4 bronzes and had 1 4th place finish. In the same timeframe:
Canada: 4 golds, 2 silvers, 0 bronzes, 2 4th places
Sweden: 0 golds, 3 silvers, 2 bronzes, 3 4th places
Finland: 3 golds, 1 silver, 1 bronze, 1 4th place
USA: 3 golds, 1 silver, 2 bronzes, 0 4th places

I mean, if Russia isn't a powerhouse then pretty much only Canada is.

 

[Hanji]

Russia last won in 2011 and before that 2003 so it's not like they've been a powerhouse either. Czechia and Sweden are the only teams that have made the semifinals each of last three years. Slovakia has been fine the last few years despite being stuck in the quarterfinals. Switzerland also lost to finalists Sweden only after OT last year.

In the last 10 times when Russia participated (so 2013-2022) they won 0 golds, 3 silvers, 4 bronzes and had 1 4th place finish. In the same timeframe:
Canada: 4 golds, 2 silvers, 0 bronzes, 2 4th places
Sweden: 0 golds, 3 silvers, 2 bronzes, 3 4th places
Finland: 3 golds, 1 silver, 1 bronze, 1 4th place
USA: 3 golds, 1 silver, 2 bronzes, 0 4th places

I mean, if Russia isn't a powerhouse then pretty much only Canada is.

They have more medals than anybody else in that time frame. It shows that Russia, more than even Canada, is consistently among the tournament elite year after year.

Anyways we're getting off the original topic here.

 

[Czechboy]

It's been a nice surprise, the better the competition the better the tourney is. Hard to say if all of these results would've happened with Russia though. Regression to the mean is likely ahead - which if other teams don't step up (Switzerland, Germany, Slovakia, etc.) may put pressure to reinstate Russia.

For sure... Better teams and better competition would be great. To my eye... Belarus was doing very good things at U18s and may have had a few good U20 teams.

 

[novisor]

In the last 10 times when Russia participated (so 2013-2022) they won 0 golds, 3 silvers, 4 bronzes and had 1 4th place finish. In the same timeframe:
Canada: 4 golds, 2 silvers, 0 bronzes, 2 4th places
Sweden: 0 golds, 3 silvers, 2 bronzes, 3 4th places
Finland: 3 golds, 1 silver, 1 bronze, 1 4th place
USA: 3 golds, 1 silver, 2 bronzes, 0 4th places

I mean, if Russia isn't a powerhouse then pretty much only Canada is.

Exactly. Gut wrenching OT losses in 2012 and 2016 too. 2020 was a late third period loss. A couple different bounces and they are at the top of this list.

 

[Albatros]

A couple of different bounces and they don't have any final appearances, it's not like they dominated any of those tournaments and just got unlucky in the final.

 

[jcbio11]

In the last 10 times when Russia participated (so 2013-2022) they won 0 golds, 3 silvers, 4 bronzes and had 1 4th place finish. In the same timeframe:
Canada: 4 golds, 2 silvers, 0 bronzes, 2 4th places
Sweden: 0 golds, 3 silvers, 2 bronzes, 3 4th places
Finland: 3 golds, 1 silver, 1 bronze, 1 4th place
USA: 3 golds, 1 silver, 2 bronzes, 0 4th places

I mean, if Russia isn't a powerhouse then pretty much only Canada is.

And Finland. And USA.

Russia isn't a powerhouse. Or I should say wasn't. They're nothing now, not even a competitor.

 

[Caser]

And Finland. And USA.

Russia isn't a powerhouse. Or I should say wasn't. They're nothing now, not even a competitor.

I mean, I understand that Math is not for everyone, but I'm not sure how from these numbers you can derive that kind of conclusion, I hope you have some interesting formula.

 

[jcbio11]

I mean, I understand that Math is not for everyone, but I'm not sure how from these numbers you can derive that kind of conclusion, I hope you have some interesting formula.

Sure.

Your arbitrarily chosen 10 year period has

Canada at 4 golds
Finland at 3 golds
USA at 3 golds

Russia sits at 0.

Last time they won this tourney was 14 years ago. Can't call them a powerhouse at this category with those results.

Yes, 2nd, 3rd and 4th place finishes are nice, but to call yourself a powerhouse and not win the tourney is asinine. Not to mention that if we don't go by the arbitrary 10 years you've chosen but actually look at the last 10 years (much more relevant when determining which countries are WJC powerhouses), Russia's stas are even worse.

 

[Caser]

Sure.

Your arbitrarily chosen 10 year period has

Canada at 4 golds
Finland at 3 golds
USA at 3 golds

Russia sits at 0.

Last time they won this tourney was 14 years ago. Can't call them a powerhouse at this category with those results.

Yes, 2nd, 3rd and 4th place finishes are nice, but to call yourself a powerhouse and not win the tourney is asinine. Not to mention that if we don't go by the arbitrary 10 years you've chosen but actually look at the last 10 years (much more relevant when determining which countries are WJC powerhouses), Russia's stas are even worse.

Those were last Russia's 10 participation years, not some random arbitrary years. Last 10 years would have included the years that have been affected by the Russia's exclusion and therefore not exactly relevant for a proper comparison.

The issue is that by your logic Sweden hasn't been a powerhouse too since they can't win gold. However lets imagine that Sweden finally wins one in the coming tournament - by your logic they suddenly will elevate their status to the powerhouse. However it doesn't click with the reality, as Sweden pretty much has always been contending for the gold, just couldn't do it for different reasons (btw compare that to Finland, who have won golds, but also had to play in the relegation round once) - not like the gold would suddenly take them to the elite level, as they are already there.

 

[jcbio11]

Those were last Russia's 10 participation years, not some random arbitrary years. Last 10 years would have included the years that have been affected by the Russia's exclusion and therefore not exactly relevant for a proper comparison.

The issue is that by your logic Sweden hasn't been a powerhouse too since they can't win gold. However lets imagine that Sweden finally wins one in the coming tournament - by your logic they suddenly will elevate their status to the powerhouse. However it doesn't click with the reality, as Sweden pretty much has always been contending for the gold, just couldn't do it for different reasons (btw compare that to Finland, who have won golds, but also had to play in the relegation round once) - not like the gold would suddenly take them to the elite level, as they are already there.

And how long will you keep looking at those 10 years? In 2025? 2026? 2027 still? Those 10 years you chose are arbitrary, the tourney is still being played, Russia just doesn't compete in it. Russia can't play at this tourney, that's just a fact. Their inability to compete absolutely affects their potential status as a powerhouse, which, spoiler alert, they are absolutely not.

And yes, at the moment Sweden isn't a WJC powerhouse until they win the tourney. Their last gold was almost as long ago as Russia's.

 

[Caser]

And how long will you keep looking at those 10 years? In 2025? 2026? 2027 still? Those 10 years you chose are arbitrary, the tourney is still being played, Russia just doesn't compete in it. Russia can't play at this tourney, that's just a fact. Their inability to compete absolutely affects their potential status as a powerhouse, which, spoiler alert, they are absolutely not.

And yes, at the moment Sweden isn't a WJC powerhouse until they win the tourney. Their last gold was almost as long ago as Russia's.

Are you trying to say that it would be more correct to compare the performance of the teams that played to the performance of the team that didn't play?

As for how long I'd say until there is a notable drop off in talent producing comparing to those years, as being a WJC powerhouse is about the ability to produce elite talent on a consistent basis, as you just can't win the WJC without it (doesn't mean that you're guaranteed to win it though and that's what makes the WJC exciting). And yes, the current state of hockey is that elite hockey talent is consistently produced by 5 countries (with all respect to Czechia there had been a bit of a drop off in that area particularly for 2001-2003 borns, but hopefully they are getting back on the right track), therefore if a team like Slovakia has a strong crop in some year and wins a gold I don't think it will be enough to be considered them suddenly becoming a powerhouse, but like 5 years of consistently contending for gold even without one would mean more in that regard.