Hypothetical - does McDavid win the Conn Smythe even if Oilers lose the cup? Assuming he has an above average finals

[blundluntman]

After tonight, I'm considering putting this performance above J.S. Giguere's in 03. Should be a lock for the Smythe regardless of who wins this series. He didn't just make his case for the smythe these last 2 games, he ruined Barkov and Bobrovsky's cases as well.

 

[zar]

He was 7:1 earlier today, made a smallish wager with the logic of the Oilers win today he has to have a big game and it’s going 6. Thought 7-1 was too tempting.

The odds are now 1.6:1.

 

[GhostfaceWu]

This exactly. Game 6 will matter.

He's got 12 points in the series and 42 for the entire playoffs if he doesn't win it at this point the league should just fold itself. Hes got nearly double the amount of a points of the next highest scorer not on his own team and still has a 10 point lead in that regard. If he doesn't win it it'll be upper there with screwing Mario out of his hart.

 

[Frosty415]

I know stats aren't the be-all-end-all, but in this case, there's just too wide a gap in production between McDavid (42 points) and Barkov (21 points) for this to even be a legitimate discussion.

What was the gap when Gretzky hit his? Or Lemieux?

That will be the difference, I'm drunk and definitely can't do the math

 

[TruePowerSlave]

Barkov and his 21 points is definitely more deserving also Bob and his .906 SV%

40+ points is childs play

 

[Satire]

Will depend on game 6 I think. He's really strengthened his case and put the team on his back these last 2 games. He's also weakened Bob's and Barkov's cases by doing so. That being said, Bob stands on his head and gets a shut out in game 6 and the narrative will change fast...

 

[Incognito]

What was the gap when Gretzky hit his? Or Lemieux?

That will be the difference, I'm drunk and definitely can't do the math

Gretzky in 84-85: 47 points in 18 games --> Next closest: Coffey with 37 points in 18 games
(10 point lead over second place)

Lemieux in 90-91: 44 points in 23 games --> Next closest: Recchi with 34 points in 24 games
(10 point lead over second place)

Gretzky in 87-88: 43 points in 19 games --> Next closest: Messier with 34 points in 19 games
(9 point lead over second place)

McDavid in 23-24: 42 points in 23 games --> Next closest: Bouchard with 32 points in 23 games
(10 point lead over second place)

So yeah, McDavid's current run is right there with peak Gretzky and Lemieux .

 

[TheNumber4]

McDavid is literally DOMINATING the competition for the Smythe. Doing historic things like beating Wayne’s alll time records.

There is NO argument for anyone besides McDavid. None. If you think being good defensively and putting up less than half of the production is equal to McDavid, sorry, you just don’t know hockey. And don’t even get me started on Belly Flop Bob, 2 of the worst SCFs performances back to back of all time.

 

[BoHorvat 53]

I was critical of McDavid putting up a bunch of points in blowout games when his production had no tangible impact on the games. Him putting up 2 points at the end of game 4 when the game was 6-1 is a prime example of that, those points are completely valueless and are purely stat padding stats. At the same time, he completely showed up tonight and dominated non-stop in an ultra close game. I'm completely willing to give McDavid credit for dominating when he deserves it, and tonight was a prime example of that.

I'm not going to give him credit for farming points in blowout games, but I'll absolutely give him credit for dominating in close games. I don't see how that's even remotely controversial. Just like I said when the last time you responded, there is a monumental difference between putting up 4 points in a 4-3 win versus putting up 4 points in an 8-1 win. What McDavid did tonight was the former, what he did in game 4 was the latter.

My issue with that is, Bobrovsky has looked super human up until that point. He did pile up the points in a blowout, but that blowout may have such a ripple effect that the Bobrovsky we saw in the 1st 3 games is gone, if that makes sense.

Hate the team, but can't hate the player. McDavid is doing laps around everyone else regarding just how much better he is than his peers.

 

[RebuildinVan]

If the Oilers win game 6 it's his no matter game 7 result. If they loose game 6 but he still gets a couple pts it's still a maybe

 

[Emotive]

No, he’s had a good playoffs but not good enough to win it in a losing effort

"Had a good playoffs".... Good? Did you see the names Wayne and Mario next to him as the best playoff performances of all time. I doubt he wins it if Edmonton loses, but it's a lot closer than any of you are willing to admit.

 

[JianYang]

I think the last couple of games is really solidifying his case.

He is just obliterating the field. 10 points ahead of his next teammate. And 20 points ahead of his closest opponent.

He's entered the 40 point club where I believe only Mario and Wayne's best efforts sit.

He's my pick right now, win or lose.

 

[TruePowerSlave]

It´s one of the best playoff runs ever against competition that is nothing special.

How is this even a discussion anymore?

 

[Gurglesons]

Not sure how you can vote anyone else at ths point.

 

[Zwui21]

At this point McDavid should win the Smythe regardless of the outcome.
Insane playoff performance, if the series gets to 7 he'll beat Gretzky's record.

 

[Silky Johnson]

I was critical of McDavid putting up a bunch of points in blowout games when his production had no tangible impact on the games. Him putting up 2 points at the end of game 4 when the game was 6-1 is a prime example of that, those points are completely valueless and are purely stat padding stats. At the same time, he completely showed up tonight and dominated non-stop in an ultra close game. I'm completely willing to give McDavid credit for dominating when he deserves it, and tonight was a prime example of that.

I'm not going to give him credit for farming points in blowout games, but I'll absolutely give him credit for dominating in close games. I don't see how that's even remotely controversial. Just like I said when the last time you responded, there is a monumental difference between putting up 4 points in a 4-3 win versus putting up 4 points in an 8-1 win. What McDavid did tonight was the former, what he did in game 4 was the latter.

This may be the dumbest argument of this post season.

Do you think either team stops playing when there is any chance of winning in a SCF?

Did you not see what can happen with a 3 point lead last night? Twice!

McDavid is "farming" points!...WTF?

Gretzky in 84-85: 47 points in 18 games --> Next closest: Coffey with 37 points in 18 games
(10 point lead over second place)

Lemieux in 90-91: 44 points in 23 games --> Next closest: Recchi with 34 points in 24 games
(10 point lead over second place)

Gretzky in 87-88: 43 points in 19 games --> Next closest: Messier with 34 points in 19 games
(9 point lead over second place)

McDavid in 23-24: 42 points in 23 games --> Next closest: Bouchard with 32 points in 23 games
(10 point lead over second place)

So yeah, McDavid's current run is right there with peak Gretzky and Lemieux .

I think the best comparison would be against non-teammates.

 

[kihei]

With that point total and eight points in two elimination games, I'd bet on him.

 

[Buck Naked]

This shouldn't even be a question. Bob's overall playoff performance just isn't good enough and Barkov's case just disappears when you compare him against McDavid. In a world where his stongest competition would be Conn Smythe winning Marchessault, O'Reilly, or Justin Williams, sure. This is McDavid doing peak Gretzky and Lemieux things though. Barkov is, in no way, shape, or form, even remotely close to his level.

 

[zar]

 

[Fledgemyhedge]

It’s mcdavid. Historic. No other answer

 

[OrrNumber4]

Gretzky in 84-85: 47 points in 18 games --> Next closest: Coffey with 37 points in 18 games
(10 point lead over second place)

Lemieux in 90-91: 44 points in 23 games --> Next closest: Recchi with 34 points in 24 games
(10 point lead over second place)

Gretzky in 87-88: 43 points in 19 games --> Next closest: Messier with 34 points in 19 games
(9 point lead over second place)

McDavid in 23-24: 42 points in 23 games --> Next closest: Bouchard with 32 points in 23 games
(10 point lead over second place)

So yeah, McDavid's current run is right there with peak Gretzky and Lemieux .

What jarred me about this list was the reminder of how much other talent those players were surrounded with. Bouchard is a good player, but without McDavid does he even have half that many points?

 

[Goose]

At this point McDavid should win the Smythe regardless of the outcome.
Insane playoff performance, if the series gets to 7 he'll beat Gretzky's record.

Yeah, I'm not a huge fan of giving it to a player on the losing team, but as things stands, there's nobody on Florida who's excelled enough individually to justify not giving it to McDavid.

I thought Bob was going to get it if they eliminated them in 4 or 5 games, but two blowup performances in elimination games is enough to remove him from contention I think, unless he steals the clinching game, a 50-shot shutout or something. He's now down to a .906 SV%, there's now a possibility Skinner ends the playoffs with a higher save percentage, which seemed impossible after Game 3 of the series.

I have massive respect for Barkov, and I get Tkachuk is point per game doing the things he does, but McDavid only has one less point then the two of them combined, it's VERY hard to ignore that.

 

[syz]

I think the best comparison would be against non-teammates.

85 - Gretzky 47, Savard 29
91 - Lemieux 44, Bellows 29
88 - Gretzky 43, Linesman 25
24 - McDavid 42, Tkachuk 22

 

[Fledgemyhedge]

this is somebody I’ll tell my unborn kids about. My dad has been blabbing about so many players for years. This one is mine. Incredible

 

[swissexpert]

If the Oilers win game 6 it's his no matter game 7 result. If they loose game 6 but he still gets a couple pts it's still a maybe

Only if maybe means 99.9%

A couple more would have him at 44 points and the 2nd best playoff output ever behind only Gretzky '85.
If that's not a historic performance, I don't know what is.