Hurricanes sale formally closed, Tom Dundon now majority owner

[TheLegend]

Read my post... I didn't say this transaction is fake. I said the price is fake...

Your post includes a headline which states the "$500M sale is fake"

Now when getting called out by several posters that the title is misleading you try redefining what you meant.

 

[garnetpalmetto]

MLB has stated they consider NC to be a great state for baseball expansion.
Perhaps he's going to flip this to buy into MLB, lol.

There is no way this franchise is worth $500M. It's either a ploy for bigger things, or there is some off the table shenanigans at work here.

Uhh...what? How does owning a hockey team in Raleigh help his chances of buying an expansion team to place to Charlotte (Manfred was explicit about Charlotte), especially when there's local team ownership (owning the Triple-A Charlotte Knights) who'd likely have first dibs?

 

[tarheelhockey]

So we can all be in agreement that its EV, whatever the announced price is... an move on, right?

I certainly hope so, considering this is way too obvious of a thing to argue about for much longer.

 

[MNNumbers]

Getting back to the matter at hand...

Regardless of what the 500M actually means or doesn't mean, it is significant that he has an offer. That's the first we've known of that.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

So we can all be in agreement that its EV, whatever the announced price is... an move on, right?

I would hope so, but I'm guessing we'll see more "$500M, OMG, must be a ploy, no way he has that kind of cash, etc.." type posts.

Who even knows if that guy that broke the story even got the number right in the first place.

 

[Slashers98]

Your post includes a headline which states the "$500M sale is fake"

Now when getting called out by several posters that the title is misleading you try redefining what you meant.

I never said Ozonian's article was true either. I won't believe anything until there is an official announcement.

 

[Dirty Old Man]

If you are a relocationist, its a sad day.

And here's to about 10,000 more of these!

 

[Fenway]

Bloomberg tends to be reliable with these stories.

More importantly the Hurricanes confirmed that an offer was made.

The BoG set price of membership at 500M and Karmanos is going to get his payday.

This does not bode well for Quebec City.

 

[TheLegend]

Getting back to the matter at hand...

Regardless of what the 500M actually means or doesn't mean, it is significant that he has an offer. That's the first we've known of that.

Yep.... That's the only true fact so far. I have to admit I was a bit surprised about the amount other than from what we knew in the past Karmanos was asking for $400-420M. And when you bring in $500M as the latest number for expansion it starts becoming plausible. Still.... it's open for debate.

 

[Yukon Joe]

NHL is not going to want to see a sale for less than $500 mil. $500 mil is now the benchmark due to expansion.

Nevertheless the sale price can be $500 mil without the new owner writing a cheque for $500 mil. Assuming debts can count as part of the cost. If they write a cheque for $100 mil, and assume debts of $400 mil, that's still a $500 mil sale price.

And of course the purchase is going to be financed in any event.

 

[Wingsfan 4 life]

Anybody know if the sale will include Gale Force Sports and Entertainment?

 

[cbcwpg]

Anybody know if the sale will include Gale Force Sports and Entertainment?

No one knows. And no one is talking.

https://www.wwaytv3.com/2017/07/14/hurricanes-owner-considering-offer-to-sell-team/

In a statement, Hurricanes spokesman Mike Sundheim said Karmanos is deciding whether to accept an offer for the franchise or remain the owner, but he declined to say who made the offer.

Greenberg did not return a phone call and a text message seeking comment.

Seven of the team’s 12 publicly identified minority investors contacted by The Associated Press either declined to comment or did not respond to phone calls and emails seeking comment.

 

[Roboturner913]

NHL is not going to want to see a sale for less than $500 mil. $500 mil is now the benchmark due to expansion.

Nevertheless the sale price can be $500 mil without the new owner writing a cheque for $500 mil. Assuming debts can count as part of the cost. If they write a cheque for $100 mil, and assume debts of $400 mil, that's still a $500 mil sale price.

And of course the purchase is going to be financed in any event.

If debt is $200 million, and the club/arena deal is worth anywhere near the $230 million as evaluated by Forbes, and Gale Force is whatever value you really want to put on it, $500 million doesn't sound so farfetched - or at least, that's how they might put it on the books.

In reality, the actual amount of money exchanged from Greenburg to Karmanos could just be the debt assumption plus some walking around money for the old man. But the NHL isn't going to let that be public.

 

[Oogie Boogie]

I don't care how much the team gets sold for as long as they stay in NC.

 

[p4277]

As a Whalers fan, I remember when Karmanos bought the team and we all felt good about having a wealthy owner who would put money into the team and make the Whalers competitive. The future looked bright. Three years later PK and the Whalers were gone.

I can understand people being optimistic, but only time will tell if this is good for Carolina fans.

 

[tarheelhockey]

As a Whalers fan, I remember when Karmanos bought the team and we all felt good about having a wealthy owner who would put money into the team and make the Whalers competitive. The future looked bright. Three years later PK and the Whalers were gone.

I can understand people being optimistic, but only time will tell if this is good for Carolina fans.

That was also during an era where the league took a totally hands-off approach to relocation. 4 teams moved in 5 years, two out of markets that proved good enough to go back to later.

1 team has relocated in the 20 years since then, largely because the league actively steps in and thwarts hostile takeover attempts. Unfortunately this didn't happen early enough to save the Whalers, but it has saved the Devils, Pens, Oilers, Sens, Predators, Coyotes, Islanders... I feel pretty good about our chances if a deal goes through without an explicit intent to relocate as a condition of the sale.

 

[Street Hawk]

Yep.... That's the only true fact so far. I have to admit I was a bit surprised about the amount other than from what we knew in the past Karmanos was asking for $400-420M. And when you bring in $500M as the latest number for expansion it starts becoming plausible. Still.... it's open for debate.

Each team is worth what someone will pay for it. But, it's important for any perspective owner to understand that the NHL likes to keep teams in their markets. So, a team in Raleigh is worth so much, while a team in Chicago/Minnesota/Boston will be worth more.

The Blues have always been ranked by Forbes in the bottom 5 of NHL values. So, would it have made sense for KC, who is in the same state as STL to put in an application for the 500 million expansion team? Realistically, any KC team is worth up to what the Blues are worth.

There's a reason the Leafs, Habs, Rangers are at the top of NHL values and why Carolina and Florida are at the bottom.

At this stage, there is an offer, but then comes the due diligence process which can take months for all of the red tape and legal haggling.

 

[Major4Boarding]

At this stage, there is an offer, but then comes the due diligence process which can take months for all of the red tape and legal haggling.

Kinda have to think that if its reached this stage, that's already been done

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

At the end of the day, I'd assume a 500 mill offer gets the job done.

Gary's Rolodex strikes again.

 

[Jonas1235]

Kinda have to think that if its reached this stage, that's already been done

probably was done before june but Karmanos wanted that cool 17m to buy a yacht.

 

[HisIceness]

I just want the deal to be done. Maybe then all the conspiracy theorists won't have any more material.

 

[DaveG]

As a Whalers fan, I remember when Karmanos bought the team and we all felt good about having a wealthy owner who would put money into the team and make the Whalers competitive. The future looked bright. Three years later PK and the Whalers were gone.

I can understand people being optimistic, but only time will tell if this is good for Carolina fans.

That was also a situation where the Whalers were playing in an outdated arena and the state of Connecticut was too concerned with trying to lure the Patriots to Hartford instead of trying to keep the pro team they already had.

There's no risk of that in Raleigh, at least not for the foreseeable future.

 

[p4277]

That was also a situation where the Whalers were playing in an outdated arena and the state of Connecticut was too concerned with trying to lure the Patriots to Hartford instead of trying to keep the pro team they already had.

There's no risk of that in Raleigh, at least not for the foreseeable future.

The State of Connecticut offered the Whalers a brand new arena free of charge. PK turned it down, because he wanted to move to Columbus. When that didn't pan out, he ended up in North Carolina and had to pay to make the new arena in Raleigh into a hockey arena. It had originally been planned as a basketball-only venue.

 

[Fenway]

The State of Connecticut offered the Whalers a brand new arena free of charge. PK turned it down, because he wanted to move to Columbus. When that didn't pan out, he ended up in North Carolina and had to pay to make the new arena in Raleigh into a hockey arena. It had originally been planned as a basketball-only venue.

PK wanted Connecticut to pay $45 million to cover losses while the new arena was being built.

http://www.nytimes.com/1997/03/27/n...d-whalers-to-leave-rejecting-arena-offer.html

The Hartford Whalers, a hockey team whose losing record is matched only by its financial woes, rejected the state's offer of a new $147.5 million arena today and announced that they would leave Connecticut at the end of the season.

The team had not inspired a widespread following, but the decision was still a blow to Gov. John G. Rowland, who had made keeping them part of his efforts to revitalize this struggling city. For two years, Mr. Rowland, a Republican, was involved in intense negotiations with Peter Karmanos, the Whalers' owner, and this month he offered to build the team an arena in downtown Hartford.

''In essence, we would build the facility and hand the Whalers the keys,'' Mr. Rowland said at a news conference this morning. ''I believe I presented the Whalers with the best offer I could reasonably expect the people of Connecticut and the legislature to support. Mr. Karmanos obviously believes that there's a better deal out there.''

Mr. Karmanos said later that the team had needed a heroic deal to stay in Hartford, adding: ''The problem here is that we're in a Bermuda Triangle of markets, stuck between New York and Boston, and you need to do something special to survive.''

He said the team could not afford the $2.5 million rent the state wanted to charge at the new arena, and that it needed the state to pay the $45 million in losses that it faced during the next three years until the new arena opened, a request that Mr. Rowland refused. Mr. Karmanos also complained about the state's proposal to charge a 10 percent tax on ticket revenues to help pay for the construction.

Other hockey teams have also moved in search of better profits. In the last five years, the Winnipeg Jets moved to Phoenix, the Quebec Nordiques to Denver and the Minnesota North Stars to Dallas, leaving behind thousands of angry fans and city officials who protested that the franchises were demanding too much taxpayer money.

Mr. Karmanos said the team had not found a new home, but suggested that other municipalities were lining up for the chance to get his team. He mentioned Columbus, Ohio; Nashville, Minneapolis-St. Paul, Las Vegas, Nev., and Raleigh-Durham, N.C., as possibilities.

http://www.wfsb.com/clip/13163491/hartfords-plea-to-save-the-whalers


PK did admit to the late Arnold Dean on WTIC radio that he had made a mistake leaving Connecticut but he didn't trust the politicians there.

HOWEVER - Had the Whalers stayed they would have had to compete with the dual headed monster of Connecticut basketball of both genders.

 

[Roboturner913]

The State of Connecticut offered the Whalers a brand new arena free of charge. PK turned it down, because he wanted to move to Columbus.

Well, that's one hell of an oversimplification.

PK wanted $45 million to offset losses over the three-year period while the state's arena was being built. That was where the deal fell apart, and that's why people have accused him of being greedy - but the truth is, what he was asking for wasn't all that crazy or unprecedented. I mean, it's crazy to you and me and Joe Sixpack Taxpayer, but in the realm of pro sports, not so much. Right about the same time all this was going on the state of Louisiana was paying the New Orleans Saints owner $186 million over 10 years to offset similar business losses.