Hurricanes sale formally closed, Tom Dundon now majority owner

[tarheelhockey]

[MOD]The league is very careful about this stuff... they want "market value" of a franchise to be high regardless of what a specific team's books might show. Expansion is one of the biggest reasons why -- they can justify a $500M entry fee if teams are in fact selling for that number. They don't want potential owners undercutting the current owners' profits by pointing at $150M sales as the base price of a franchise.

And again, it's not hard to shift some spreadsheets around to create a number of you really want it. Organizations do that stuff all the time.

 

[cbcwpg]

It's just a coincidence that the very first offer to purchase a team after Las Vegas paid $500MM for an expansion franchise... happens to be they exact same amount to the penny for a franchise that is no where worth near $500MM.

Sure.... gotta be a conspiracy nut to think it just not a happy accident.

 

[Bixby Snyder]

The league is very careful about this stuff... they want "market value" of a franchise to be high regardless of what a specific team's books might show. Expansion is one of the biggest reasons why -- they can justify a $500M entry fee if teams are in fact selling for that number. They don't want potential owners undercutting the current owners' profits by pointing at $150M sales as the base price of a franchise.

And again, it's not hard to shift some spreadsheets around to create a number of you really want it. Organizations do that stuff all the time.

The actual numbers don't mater, this is a private transaction and only those involved along with the league are entitled to the details. The fact is that most of the people questioning this are just salty about the team staying in Raleigh, they should just be honest and say that.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Honestly, the $500M number is pretty irrelevant right now. Even if that number is real (and I have some doubts), there are so many different factors such as cost of the team, assumed debt, payout terms, Gale Force Holdings, shares in the team vs. actual dollars, etc, etc....

I'll be very surprised if this is a case of Greenberg's group dropping $500M in cash to Karmanos

 

[powerstuck]

News are great for all Canes fans.
They are a bit less great for anyone looking to buy a pro-sports team. $500M is far from pocket change, even for Bill Gates.

 

[Slashers98]

What if it's simply a negotiation ploy to get Quebecor to really pay that $500M price?

I don't believe for one second that Greenberg would be that unwise to pay such a high amount for a franchise that's worth only half that price!

Stay tuned.

 

[tarheelhockey]

What if it's simply a negotiation ploy to get Quebecor to really pay that $500M price?

I don't believe for one second that Greenberg would be that unwise to pay such a high amount for a franchise that's worth only half that price!

Stay tuned.

You think he's too smart to spend a lot of money, but dumb enough to get played like that?

 

[FreshSeabass]

What if it's simply a negotiation ploy to get Quebecor to really pay that $500M price?

I don't believe for one second that Greenberg would be that unwise to pay such a high amount for a franchise that's worth only half that price!

Stay tuned.

From what i understand of LOI's both parties would not sign on it just as a negotiation tactic with a totally different party. Although negotiation between the two parties already involved is allowed.

 

[GuelphStormer]

The actual numbers don't mater, this is a private transaction and only those involved along with the league are entitled to the details. The fact is that most of the people questioning this are just salty about the team staying in Raleigh, they should just be honest and say that.

it's silly to insist that legitimate skepticism of this proposed transaction is just people being "salty". almost as silly as saying the actual numbers dont matter. of course they do. they matter a great deal.

 

[edog37]

Though I still harbor some hate from 06 no city should lose their franchise

tell that to the Hartford fans...

 

[Slashers98]

Like I said above...

Carolina Hurricanes $500 Million Sale Is Fake News

Don't believe everything you read on the Internet.

 

[Svechhammer]

Like I said above...

Carolina Hurricanes $500 Million Sale Is Fake News

Don't believe everything you read on the Internet.

Forbes... the site that valued the franchise at less than half of its rumored selling price... comes out with an article calling the potential sale 'fake news'... A rumor that was confirmed by members of the Canes front office...

and you're telling us not to believe everything we read on the internet.

 

[Llama19]

Like I said above...

Carolina Hurricanes $500 Million Sale Is Fake News

Don't believe everything you read on the Internet.

Perhaps we need to re-define LOI as meaning Lying On Interwebs...

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Like I said above...

Carolina Hurricanes $500 Million Sale Is Fake News

Don't believe everything you read on the Internet.

The irony of you posting a link to an internet article and then saying don't believe everything you read on the Internet.

But let's put a little context into your link.

a) this is written by a guy that would look foolish if his Forbes Team Value assessment was totally different than what the team was sold for. He has a vested interest for the purchase price to not be that high.

-AND-

b) He's not saying the LOI or pending sale is fake, in fact, he's confirming Greenberg made an offer and that Greenberg has a Letter of Intent. He's simply saying the $500M purchase price number is fake.

Nothing in that article changes anything that has already been reported, other than calling into question the $500M number. For all we know, it could be $250 purchase price, assuming $200M in debt, and giving $50M in shares or some combination of that (as I posted earlier)

 

[Slashers98]

The irony of you posting a link to an internet article and then saying don't believe everything you read on the Internet.

But let's put a little context into your link.

a) this is written by a guy that would look foolish if his Forbes Team Value assessment was totally different than what the team was sold for. He has a vested interest for the purchase price to not be that high.

-AND-

b) He's not saying the LOI or pending sale is fake, in fact, he's confirming Greenberg made an offer and that Greenberg has a Letter of Intent. He's simply saying the $500M purchase price number is fake.

Nothing in that article changes anything that has already been reported, other than calling into question the $500M number. For all we know, it could be $250 purchase price, assuming $200M in debt, and giving $50M in shares or some combination of that (as I posted earlier)

Read my post... I didn't say this transaction is fake. I said the price is fake...

 

[Finnish Jerk Train]

WRT to the $500m number, let me draw a parallel from my own experience (I'm a CPA who works in multifamily affordable housing).

I can tell you that my company invests other people's money in apartment complexes. These properties have limited revenue potential and invariably show a net loss on their income statements and tax returns. Our investors come back year after year and give us hundreds of millions of dollars to do it all over again. Everybody goes into these deals with clear eyes, knowing that the property will never show a net profit and that it probably has more debt than it'll ever be able to repay from operations. Furthermore, when we decide to exit the deal, we will probably accept $100 to sell the ownership stake that cost us millions to buy. And at the end of the day, everyone is getting what they want.

If this sounds ludicrous to you, it's because what I said is both accurate and misleading. It's accurate because everything I've said is a fact, but it's misleading because it doesn't paint the full picture - not even close. There is a perfectly good explanation as to why these deals make business sense, but that's beside the point.

Similarly, the $500m figure here is probably about as accurate and misleading as what I've told you about my company's investments. The LOI has not been made public, so nobody outside the negotiations really knows exactly what Greenberg has offered to buy besides a hockey team. When describing a business transaction, people can legitimately come up with any number they want depending on how they structure the deal. The only number we know is the headline value.

 

[Bixby Snyder]

it's silly to insist that legitimate skepticism of this proposed transaction is just people being "salty". almost as silly as saying the actual numbers dont matter. of course they do. they matter a great deal.

Obviously it matters to those involved in the transaction, but your "skepticism" about it is irrelevant. And considering its the same usual suspects bringing up this "skepticism" i'd say the term "salty" is very appropriate.

 

[Mightygoose]

Like I said above...

Carolina Hurricanes $500 Million Sale Is Fake News

Don't believe everything you read on the Internet.

What jumps out to me in the article.

And by the way, Greenberg is not even close to raising the money to buy the Hurricanes. Not even for $400 million.

Good reason why PK is not jumping for this per his statement yesterday.

Saying that it's not doomsday but there's still a few pages left in the chapter too.

 

[tarheelhockey]

The thing is, the Forbes valuation could be right on the nose AND the sale of the team could happen for $500M. Those are not exclusive possibilities.

The writer does indeed appear to be making an especially snarky defense of Forbes' numbers. All he really needed to do was say "this makes more sense if the deal includes assets and liabilities other than the franchise itself", and it would have been fine. Instead he felt the need to get all internet-culture hostile for no reason. Hence the suspicion that this is largely about a hit to his employer's reputation.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Read my post... I didn't say this transaction is fake. I said the price is fake...

You didn't say just the price was fake. Your post said this was all just a negotiation ploy to get Quebec to pay $500M (implying that there is no deal/intent for Greenberg to purchase the Canes, this was just a ruse to get more out of Quebecor.)

Still doesn't change that you said "don't believe everything your read on the internet" and then posted a link of an article on the internet to prove your point.

 

[Svechhammer]

The thing is, the Forbes valuation could be right on the nose AND the sale of the team could happen for $500M. Those are not exclusive possibilities.

The writer does indeed appear to be making an especially snarky defense of Forbes' numbers. All he really needed to do was say "this makes more sense if the deal includes assets and liabilities other than the franchise itself", and it would have been fine. Instead he felt the need to get all internet-culture hostile for no reason. Hence the suspicion that this is largely about a hit to his employer's reputation.

The article is classic internet-troll. When you are found to be wrong, you never admit defeat, and instead shift the goalposts and go on the offensive. This article was the shifting of the goalposts and going on the offensive.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

What jumps out to me in the article.



Good reason why PK is not jumping for this per his statement yesterday.

Saying that it's not doomsday but there's still a few pages left in the chapter too.

True, but as I stated earlier though, even if the price is $500M (which I really doubt honestly), I doubt it would be all cash. There's the Canes, there's Gale Force Holdings, there's debt, etc.. A deal could be structured with some cash, some debt assumed, some shares left with Karmanos (or others), performance clauses, future payouts, etc...

I will be downright shocked if/when this happens, that Greenberg's group shells out $500M in cash to Karmanos.

 

[tarheelhockey]

I will be downright shocked if/when this happens, that Greenberg's group shells out $500M in cash to Karmanos.

Particularly considering Karmanos' financial situation, which has never seemed to be especially cash-poor but definitely does include some debts he'd like to be rid of. Not to mention he has been in family estate planning mode for quite some time now. I doubt that Karmanos himself is wanting a $500M cash payout on this thing.

 

[Major4Boarding]

I will be downright shocked if/when this happens, that Greenberg's group shells out $500M in cash to Karmanos.

Particularly considering Karmanos' financial situation, which has never seemed to be especially cash-poor but definitely does include some debts he'd like to be rid of. Not to mention he has been in family estate planning mode for quite some time now. I doubt that Karmanos himself is wanting a $500M cash payout on this thing.

So we can all be in agreement that its EV, whatever the announced price is... an move on, right?

 

[BogsDiamond]

What if it's simply a negotiation ploy to get Quebecor to really pay that $500M price?

I don't believe for one second that Greenberg would be that unwise to pay such a high amount for a franchise that's worth only half that price!

Stay tuned.

MLB has stated they consider NC to be a great state for baseball expansion.
Perhaps he's going to flip this to buy into MLB, lol.

There is no way this franchise is worth $500M. It's either a ploy for bigger things, or there is some off the table shenanigans at work here.