Hurricanes sale formally closed, Tom Dundon now majority owner

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TheLegend

"Just say it 3 times..."
Aug 30, 2009
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Buzzing BoH
So..... if the story MG posted is true then it continues.

Ozanian has his "SEE!! I told you so!!!" moment, which may or may not end up coming true. But he gets his clicks in the mean time. :cool:
 

DaveG

Noted Jerk
Apr 7, 2003
52,242
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Meh, fans have somewhere between very little and absolutely nothing to do with how a team does on the ice. But I'd also be the first to tell you that the games are nowhere near as fun as they are with a packed house that is just going absolutely crazy like we had at the home opener.
 
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Svechhammer

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I don't see why people are surprised about the Canes attendance so far this year. They're 7 games into their 9th season after they last made the playoffs, with a team that is still struggling to win knowing the owner is dragging his feet to sell the team, with a very real possibility the franchise might not be here next year. There isn't much at all to cheer for right now. Oh sure, this is supposed to be the year they're good, but we've heard that easily 5 or 6 times over the past 8 years, and the story has always remained the same. Decent team with critical unaddressed weaknesses that are its undoing. This franchise has been completely bungled by Karmanos from the second he got his name on the Cup to now. They never allowed the team to legitimately get bad enough to get the elite player that brings in fans of a bad team, and they never got good enough to make the playoffs. And now they're in a division where you could finish in the top quartile of points in the league and still miss out on the postseason. Its a legitimate mess that will take YEARS to clean up, even if the sale goes through.

And sure, you can move this team to another location, but this is an organization that is legitimately broken. They don't know how to run a successful business when more than half of the league has some sort of success every year. The new fans will jump on board early, but unless there are major philosophical changes to the organization, you're going to be right here with this same kind of mess in short order. And if the team moves and has success, that would be a major 'screw you' to the fans in Raleigh, of which there legitimately are a lot, who are just waiting for the team to show it a reason to care again.
 

Killion

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Feb 19, 2010
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Meh, fans have somewhere between very little and absolutely nothing to do with how a team does on the ice. But I'd also be the first to tell you that the games are nowhere near as fun as they are with a packed house that is just going absolutely crazy like we had at the home opener.

Yeah, that HockeyWriters article postulates as weve seen elsewhere be it Florida, Colorado, Vancouver, Ottawa & elsewhere either in the past or currently that playing to half or 2/3rds full houses is somehow deflating, that the players sit on the bench stewing about it... "no energy here Man, why bother, no one cares"..... give... me... a... break. All their thinking about is their next shift. Hell, I can remember as a kid in the 60's attending games at Maple Leaf Gardens, packed house yet as quiet as the grave. Now THAT can be disconcerting to a player out on the ice, leave you wondering if you by mistake showed up at the wrong arena & walked right into a Zombie Convention. Or alternatively, the old Spectrum in Philadelphia, Chicago Stadium, you WISHED there was no crowd or that it only be half full. Some people, buy a ticket, think its also a licence to go nuts, misbehave, pick a fight with a player from out of town sitting in the Penalty Box, throwup on the patron sitting in front of them, scream obscenities. Fun.... wow.

Look. The Canes havent made the Playoffs for a decade. Who's fault is that? Not the fans. That speaks to Ownership. Where the buck starts & stops. The well from which everything else flows & permeates. Ripple effect. Attitude critical, key and as far as I'm concerned the problem is & always has been Peter Karmanos himself. Not the various General Managers, Coaches, Scouts, talent. He & only he is responsible for all of this, driven the franchise right into the ditch. The market is not failing hockey or the NHL, Peter Karmanos has failed the market. He's done a lot of great things for the game over the years no question, loves the game of that theres no doubt but as an owner, penurious to the extreme, avaricious, intransigent, duplicitous.

I've known Jim Rutherford for nearly 50yrs and as both a player not blessed with a lot of talent it was his work ethic that got him to the Show and that ethic & discipline carried on & over into his long tenure with PK. When he left after essentially being handcuffed for several seasons prior to his departure the foundations truly cracked. Whats transpired since appalling.... understanding what Karmano's was apparently looking for & the asking price for the franchise... suspiciously, the almost deliberate mis-management & dysfunction on the ice.... bringing in Don Waddell who Thank God has little to do with hockey-ops but who's very presence is disquieting to say the least... now this idiocy of "Fake News", wannabe owner trying to cobble together investors.... for one to imagine this shaping up to look a lot like Atlanta Thrashers Redux, well, Conspiracy Theory or Conspiracy Fact?

I dunno the answer to that. No one does. But My God. If it does transpire that that its Fact & not Theory and Karmano's has been playing the market & the NHL facilitates a sale for relo then Jacobs & Bettman need to go, resign. Whatever sensible sane members currently sitting around the BOG's table staging a palace coup & getting rid of these idiots once & for all. Something that should have already have happened in fact & years ago. They lost the colors in Atlanta, theyve needlessly staged lockouts, engage in Union Busting, Restrictive Trade Practices, Leagues run as an Autocracy, like Gangland Prohibitioners, way behind the 8Ball in actually "growing the game" & in growing revenues despite the braggadocio to the opposite, priced themselves out of markets they should be in & should have been in for years.... just goes on & on. And now this, another story that wont go away, a deal that possibly cannot be done in North Carolina because?..... Peter can ding someone full pop if given portability? This whole situation is really quite sickening and one I try to avoid thinking about. To think that whats transpiring, and all the dots connecting could actually happen.... seriously disturbing.
 
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tarheelhockey

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What sucks the hardest, at this phase of the process and irrespective of how things turn out, is that it just drains the fun out of following the team. Even a bad team, where part of the "fun" is the moaning and groaning about how bad we are. Now, until the ownership stuff gets settled, it seems like a fool's errand to even put enough emotional commitment into them to feel secure moaning and groaning. It's just sitting there listening to the clock tick, paying more attention to Forbes tweets than to how Hanifin looked last night. It's not even being a hockey fan anymore... it's a lot of being anxious about what a billionaire is going to do with his pet corporation. Sucks, man.
 

Killion

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Feb 19, 2010
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... it's a lot of being anxious about what a billionaire is going to do with his pet corporation. Sucks, man.

Yeah, I hear ya. Weve seen this unfold before just different circumstances, people involved, but for the fans same reactions. You just become numb. Out of your control, hands. Attendance in the scheme of things is moot (though it can be used, diabolically if one so chooses - deliberately tank it), meaningless as even with packed houses it would just be something else. That he's still bleeding red ink, needs to jack prices up or whatever. How do you satisfy someone with so voracious an appetite for wealth, who worships at the alter of Plutus? You simply cant. They will get away with what they can, no limits, no brakes, no sense of responsibility or loyalty. If he cant get the wholly artificial grossly over-inflated price to which he feels entitled locally for that club......
 

Agalloch

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http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/nhl/carolina-hurricanes/article181265886.html

"Carolina Hurricanes owner Peter Karmanos Jr. said Friday that negotiations continue with sports attorney Chuck Greenberg over the proposed sale of the NHL team.

But Karmanos, in an interview, said he has questions as to whether Greenberg will be able to form an investment group capable of raising the amount needed to buy the team – perhaps $500 million or more."
 

tarheelhockey

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I don’t even know what to make of this situation right now. Karmanos is outright ****-talking Greenberg like there’s some sort of personal feud going on. That’s like a nightmare scenario for keeping the team here, then he turns around and says:

“I have umpteen million people who have figured out Raleigh is a pretty good area and it’s a pretty good team and pretty good market,” he said. “So if Chuck can’t deliver and I still want to sell the team, the price keeps going up.”
...
“We have like a dozen different groups,” Karmanos said. “There’s solid interest all over the place.”

So now I ought to feel... uh... super optimistic?

What in the world...
 

tarheelhockey

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Without getting too political, I feel like I've heard this kind of rhetoric far too often from people in power lately, and most of the time, they've been proven to be completely full of s-

While I agree, the question is, in what way is he full of it right now? Is he just squeezing Greenberg to jack up the price? Is he legit feuding with the guy in public (and if so... really!?)? Is he lying about having a dozen groups lined up to keep the team in Raleigh? If so, what’s the endgame there? Or is he legit trying to clear Greenberg out of the way to take a better offer?

Bizarre.
 

Svechhammer

THIS is hockey?
Jun 8, 2017
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While I agree, the question is, in what way is he full of it right now? Is he just squeezing Greenberg to jack up the price? Is he legit feuding with the guy in public (and if so... really!?)? Is he lying about having a dozen groups lined up to keep the team in Raleigh? If so, what’s the endgame there? Or is he legit trying to clear Greenberg out of the way to take a better offer?

Bizarre.
Judging from who he is talking to with this interview, and the audience he knows will be reading it, my guess is the bolded section. I highly doubt he has people beating down the door to buy this franchise. If he did, the sale would have happened by now. He's just mouthing off because he's an ego-maniacal a-hole who thinks saying these things will make the masses think better of him. In reality, it just makes him look like a clown.

As far as the endgame? Who knows. Looks like Chuckie is out, so maybe he's overselling in hopes to drum up more bids. I don't see how that works, though.
 
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Killion

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Feb 19, 2010
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I highly doubt he has people beating down the door to buy this franchise. If he did, the sale would have happened by now. He's just mouthing off because he's an ego-maniacal a-hole who thinks saying these things will make the masses think better of him. In reality, it just makes him look like a clown.

Oh ya, totally agree. He's stolen Bettmans line mouthed in Arizona back in 09. "Lineup of people wanting to buy the club". Disinformation. And of course your quite right. If there was a "lineup of buyers" at the price he's demanding a deal would have been done already..... As for the "ego-maniacal" bit yes. Seems to be a prerequisite for membership in most of the major & in many cases minor leagues. Its just unreal, always has been. Like the political class. Hope for the best but expect the worst if youve any sense of self preservation. Pretty sad state of affairs. Almost makes you wanna move to Idaho, go off grid, dig in, wait for the tanks to roll in..... well, perhaps not but it sure helps one to understand why some do huh? Unbelievable. No such thing as moral contracts. Why do the right thing when lying & doing the wrong thing is so much easier & you can get away with it. Rhetorical I know but please, say it aint so Peter. He's gotta say a lot more than what he's said so far. That he's greatful for all the support in the Triangle, State. Thats he's TOTALLY COMMITTED to securing local ownership & then he has to act reasonably & responsibly & make it happen which I'm quite certain he can but thus far that little thing called greed .... and here we are.
 

CokenoPepsi

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Oct 28, 2016
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I don't see why people are surprised about the Canes attendance so far this year. They're 7 games into their 9th season after they last made the playoffs, with a team that is still struggling to win knowing the owner is dragging his feet to sell the team, with a very real possibility the franchise might not be here next year. There isn't much at all to cheer for right now. Oh sure, this is supposed to be the year they're good, but we've heard that easily 5 or 6 times over the past 8 years, and the story has always remained the same. Decent team with critical unaddressed weaknesses that are its undoing. This franchise has been completely bungled by Karmanos from the second he got his name on the Cup to now. They never allowed the team to legitimately get bad enough to get the elite player that brings in fans of a bad team, and they never got good enough to make the playoffs. And now they're in a division where you could finish in the top quartile of points in the league and still miss out on the postseason. Its a legitimate mess that will take YEARS to clean up, even if the sale goes through.

And sure, you can move this team to another location, but this is an organization that is legitimately broken. They don't know how to run a successful business when more than half of the league has some sort of success every year. The new fans will jump on board early, but unless there are major philosophical changes to the organization, you're going to be right here with this same kind of mess in short order. And if the team moves and has success, that would be a major 'screw you' to the fans in Raleigh, of which there legitimately are a lot, who are just waiting for the team to show it a reason to care again.

Really? You think this could be their last season? I can't see it.
 

Wolf357

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Jul 16, 2011
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Even worst case scenario and no local ownership comes forward and the team re-locates..there be no real accredited news saying so until the end of the regular season. As a Jets fan I followed every tidbit of news regarding getting a franchise (Atlanta/Phoenix) and I can assure you all the juicy stuff was coming via leaked info that was somewhat shady ... all the NHL so called "insiders" won't print or go on air with uncredited info regarding a franchise move in fear of ticking off the NHL and getting blacklisted any one remember Al Strachan on HNIC spilling the beans about the Thrashers moving to Winnipeg? Hasn't been heard since...

 
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Mightygoose

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For being in the midst of the negotiation, Karmanos is way too local about it in my view.

Perhaps it's just Peter being Peter but I agree with others. Why publicly throw Chuck under the bus or at least his ability to raise the funds? If he has another dozen or so groups interested, just cut bait here and move on.

Granted his one of them see the team at a 500 million value, he might as well have a hundred groups interested.
 

tarheelhockey

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tarheelhockey

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If he has another dozen or so groups interested, just cut bait here and move on.

One of the things he said in the interview is that until Greenberg formally bows out, PK can't just cut bait. He's legally bound to consider only the Greenberg offer until the bitter end... which is probably the main source of his annoyance at the moment.
 

Mightygoose

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One of the things he said in the interview is that until Greenberg formally bows out, PK can't just cut bait. He's legally bound to consider only the Greenberg offer until the bitter end... which is probably the main source of his annoyance at the moment.

That would make sense. Generally Letter of Intents have a period they're valid for (not all of them), so perhaps he's just waiting for this one to run. Though I didn't think this one was binding.

Otherwise this can go on forever in a loop which doesn't help anyone.
 

tarheelhockey

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That would make sense. Generally Letter of Intents have a period they're valid for (not all of them), so perhaps he's just waiting for this one to run. Though I didn't think this one was binding.

Otherwise this can go on forever in a loop which doesn't help anyone.

Yeah, that's pretty much where we are right now. It seems PK is shaming Greenberg into giving up so he can get out of the LOI and move on to... whatever the next thing is supposed to be.
 

MNNumbers

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I don't really want to throw this into the mix, because I don't want to sound like I dislike or disrespect the local Raleigh fans, but...

N & O quotes Karmanos that if Greenberg can't acquire the cash, the price goes up, and there are other parties. Granted there is a statement in there about the quality of the market, however, I think there is a chance (by no means certain, but there is a chance) that what Karmanos really means is:

If Greenberg wants the team, and can raise 450-500M, we can make a deal. If he can't raise that, there is a higher offer hanging over everyone's head, and it comes from Quebec.

As I say, I hate to be the one to mention this possibility, but perhaps all possibilities bear mentioning.

Do I actually know anything? Of course not. Do I WANT them to relocate? No. I want BOTH Raleigh and QC to have teams.
 

Dirty Old Man

Yotah Hockey Club
Jan 29, 2008
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I'm sure when the deal closes someone will post it without anyone having to ask. Its not going to go unmentioned. Until then, like all threads, this one is going to have tangents. Otherwise the thread will look like this:

Day 1:
First post - did the deal close yet
Second post - No
Day 2:
First Post - did the deal close yet
Second post - No
Day 3:
First Post - did the deal close yet
Second post - No
Day 4:
First Post - did the deal close yet
Second post - No

And so on. As you can see that would get boring.
(Heaven knows that doesn't slow down the Phoenix threads)

Also, a team from Arizona won a division at that Quebec tourney within the last few years. The backup goalie on that team...his dad's a beer league goalie and ref, from of all places Puerto Rico.
 

aqib

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Feb 13, 2012
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Mark Armstrong (ABC sportscaster in Raleigh) just tweeted:

FWIW - what I was told a while back is that Greenberg's first investor group to buy Canes fell through. He's trying to re-assemble diff $

So pretty much what I had been saying...
 
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