GDT: Hurricanes @ Penguins 10/8/13 7:00PM

[spockBokk]

Holy Iphone double post Batman!!!

 

[the halleJOKEL]

really? i just checked three star selection and there was one guy doing hat trick paid by canes to do so ..interesting

Malkin and Crosby were everywhere. Jokinen also had a good game, but calling him the best player on the ice is disingenuous. Stats aren't everything.

 

[Unsustainable]

Malkin and Crosby were everywhere. Jokinen also had a good game, but calling him the best player on the ice is disingenuous. Stats aren't everything.

But goals are at the end of the game.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

Man, do we really have to do this Ward conversation again?

I would have thought most people would have watched last year, seen what most goaltenders look like behind this team, and given Ward a LOT more leeway.

But no, now we've got another backup that we can gush over until he faces actual competition (and 19 shots against a team that fired their coach immediately after the game isn't) and is exposed by this team in the same way Ward has been for years.

 

[TheBigKahuna]

At some point, you have to stop defending Cam Ward. His stats don't lie.

 

[the halleJOKEL]

But goals are at the end of the game.

When talking about which team won or lost, sure. That wasn't what was being discussed, however.

 

[Lazyking]

Man, do we really have to do this Ward conversation again?

I would have thought most people would have watched last year, seen what most goaltenders look like behind this team, and given Ward a LOT more leeway.

But no, now we've got another backup that we can gush over until he faces actual competition (and 19 shots against a team that fired their coach immediately after the game isn't) and is exposed by this team in the same way Ward has been for years.

What's wrong with calling out Cam for his bad games? I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't know what Khudobin is.. To me, he's not the goalie that we need to play at a top level.. I expect more from Cam. Its early in the season. He's had one good game and one not so good game. He has to be consistently good or this team is going no where.

 

[Dishface]

The one thing that never surprises me about Ward is that he makes an unbelievable save or sequences of saves, then the next shot or so, he lets in a softy. For example last night with those amazing saves right before cam misplayed the puck and Glass got a goal.

 

[What the Faulk]

Man, do we really have to do this Ward conversation again?

I would have thought most people would have watched last year, seen what most goaltenders look like behind this team, and given Ward a LOT more leeway.

But no, now we've got another backup that we can gush over until he faces actual competition (and 19 shots against a team that fired their coach immediately after the game isn't) and is exposed by this team in the same way Ward has been for years.

Ellis before injury: .918 save percentage (12 games)
Ward's entire season: .908 save percentage (17 games)

Ward was average last night, and inconsistent. That one sequence is clouding your judgment.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

At some point, you have to stop defending Cam Ward. His stats don't lie.

You're right. His stats don't lie. The issue is, most people believe goalie stats amount to GAA and SV% and that's it.

That line of thinking completely ignores the very real factor of SA. Is it easier for a goaltender to stop 19 shots a night or 36 shots a night? How about when the team in front of the goaltender can only score two goals? Gives a very small window of error to get the win, especially if you have to maintain a .970 SV% to do so.

History is on my side. Ward's the only goaltender we've had in the past 8 years that's looked even remotely competent behind this team with any kind of consistency. I'm hoping that Khudobin can change that, that we can have two competent goaltenders instead of one. But I'm not ready to anoint Anton and trash Ward just because a 4-2 game against the expected frontrunners in the East became 5-2.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

Ellis before injury: .918 save percentage (12 games)
Ward's entire season: .908 save percentage (17 games)

Ward was average last night, and inconsistent. That one sequence is clouding your judgment.

Cam Ward, making his second start of the season, had some spectacular saves for the Canes, who were playing their season’s first road game. The Pens, favored to win the newly formed Metro Division, had 36 shots and many came off high-quality looks.

“Cam kept us in there,†Staal said. “I think everybody needed to be a little bit stronger than we were, a little more aggressive. It was too much space for their skilled players.â€

Read more here: http://www.newsobserver.com/2013/10...-to-penguins-in-pittsburgh.html#storylink=cpy

Guess it's clouding everyone's judgment then

 

[Joe McGrath]

Guess it's clouding everyone's judgment then

That's accepted terrible captain Eric Staal. A real captain would call out Cam for his garbage performance.

 

[Vagrant]

It is, and always has been, that Ward quits when his defense quits and the score becomes insurmountable. If he allows three and we've scored one late in the third, don't count out the opposition scoring a few more. He just mentally checks out of those games. He doesn't care about his goals against and his save percentage and all those other numbers. All he has ever talked about is wins. The only thing keeping him in the fight late in those games is pure competitive spirit and muscle memory. Every goaltender has a flaw. Ward is a lot more emotional than people seem to believe.

 

[tarheelhockey]

It is, and always has been, that Ward quits when his defense quits and the score becomes insurmountable.

Glad someone else wrote this so I didn't have to.

Ward kept us in last night's game when we should have been completely blown out. It's frustrating to see that kind of performance reduced to "one sequence" when it was more like 45 minutes.

AFAIC Ward has had 5 good periods and one bad one. The bad one being the tail-end of a game where we were getting walked over and the opponent stopped playing cat-and-mouse when we mounted a brief rally.

 

[Lazyking]

Glad someone else wrote this so I didn't have to.

Ward kept us in last night's game when we should have been completely blown out. It's frustrating to see that kind of performance reduced to "one sequence" when it was more like 45 minutes.

AFAIC Ward has had 5 good periods and one bad one. The bad one being the tail-end of a game where we were getting walked over and the opponent stopped playing cat-and-mouse when we mounted a brief rally.

I agree with this and Vagrant's point however I'm still annoyed with the 3rd goal. Right after that is when the Canes and Cam quit.

 

[the halleJOKEL]

I agree with this and Vagrant's point however I'm still annoyed with the 3rd goal. Right after that is when the Canes and Cam quit.

They still were putting a ton of pressure on in the offensive zone until a couple shifts after the Glass goal.

 

[Vagrant]

I agree with this and Vagrant's point however I'm still annoyed with the 3rd goal. Right after that is when the Canes and Cam quit.

It was a bad goal at a bad time for sure. It just seems to me that had Ward given up a goal in that ridiculous sequence just prior then everybody would have been good with it. I find that kind of weird. Since you made all those impossible saves, you should basically stop everything. You could even see Cam after that goal was scored give the body language to his defense like, "well what did you expect?", seemingly as a reference to the fact that we couldn't get out of our own end.

 

[What the Faulk]

To be clear: I'm not advocating Khudobin getting any more than 25% of the games or so. I'm just saying, Ward was inconsistent last night. He allowed some bad goals and it cost them. When Glass scored there was still over 11 minutes left in the game. The Canes scored their two in under 10. It was a tough task, but the game wasn't over.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

Glad someone else wrote this so I didn't have to.

Ward kept us in last night's game when we should have been completely blown out. It's frustrating to see that kind of performance reduced to "one sequence" when it was more like 45 minutes.

AFAIC Ward has had 5 good periods and one bad one. The bad one being the tail-end of a game where we were getting walked over and the opponent stopped playing cat-and-mouse when we mounted a brief rally.

Bingo. Ward was the only reason this team had a chance to tie this game in the third, and continued to give this team that same chance until the 4th goal.

Our offense really should be more of a concern at the moment than it seems to be. Haven't seen the Gerbe goal last night, but have we had a goal that involves two or more linemates that couldn't be attributed to "a fluke"?

Dvorak's goal against the Flyers is the only one I can think of, and even then, that deflected off the skate of a defender.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

I didn't watch any of the game.

But 3 games in this season, and the Staal's have combined for 1 point so far.

I'd say, given that stat line, that 1-1-1 against Detroit, Philly and Pittsburgh, is a success. We really are the Carolina Staals.

That said, I'm glad that Eric's goose call made a resurgence.

 

[Vagrant]

To be clear: I'm not advocating Khudobin getting any more than 25% of the games or so. I'm just saying, Ward was inconsistent last night. He allowed some bad goals and it cost them. When Glass scored there was still over 11 minutes left in the game. The Canes scored their two in under 10. It was a tough task, but the game wasn't over.

It's tough. I see your point regarding time left on the clock, but there are two ends to games that end this one sided. One is the end of the game where the players stopped competing and the second is the actual buzzer. If we're going by when everybody kind of got that sinking feeling that it was over, I point to the third goal and call it the unofficial end of the game. They stopped pushing.

Teams with winning cultures rarely quit pushing in games because they never really believe they're out of it. It's a confidence that Carolina hasn't displayed in a while. I remember in 05-06 that giving up goals wasn't a huge deal because that team, more than any I have ever watched, didn't think they were out of the game until they really were. If you could find a way to bottle that, you could be the perfect coach.

 

[djboos22]

I watched the first 2 periods this morning. The Pens played aggressive and fast, we kept a nice pace with them for most of the periods. Ward played pretty well considering how easily the Pens got to the net.

So, when I had to stop watching it was 2-2 in the 3rd. What happen?? Was it Wards fault?

 

[Lazyking]

It's tough. I see your point regarding time left on the clock, but there are two ends to games that end this one sided. One is the end of the game where the players stopped competing and the second is the actual buzzer. If we're going by when everybody kind of got that sinking feeling that it was over, I point to the third goal and call it the unofficial end of the game. They stopped pushing.

Teams with winning cultures rarely quit pushing in games because they never really believe they're out of it. It's a confidence that Carolina hasn't displayed in a while. I remember in 05-06 that giving up goals wasn't a huge deal because that team, more than any I have ever watched, didn't think they were out of the game until they really were. If you could find a way to bottle that, you could be the perfect coach.

This. The team hasn't proven they can win and so when things go wrong, its not going to be pretty. Coupled with it being early in the season, their is probably a thought of "oh well, it's not really a big game.."

 

[Blueline Bomber]

I watched the first 2 periods this morning. The Pens played aggressive and fast, we kept a nice pace with them for most of the periods. Ward played pretty well considering how easily the Pens got to the net.

So, when I had to stop watching it was 2-2 in the 3rd. What happen?? Was it Wards fault?

Depends on how you look at it. The only reason it was 2-2 in the 3rd was because of Ward. The reason it became 5-2 was partly because of Ward.

So I'd say fault lies with the team rather than any individual player.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I didn't catch much of the game, mainly highlights, but I don't see what's wrong with discussing Ward letting in a soft goal even if he is the one keeping them in the game up until that point.

IMO, this team is not good enough for any of the big money players to be inconsistent. Whether that be Eric Staal, Jordan Staal, Skinner, Semin or Ward, the team will not be successful if they have too many lapses or inconsistent play.

When a skater has a lapse, a lot of other things still have to go wrong in order for a goal to be scored (and they can be bailed out by the goalie). Unfortunately, when a goalie has a lapse, it ends up in the net. That's the life of a goalie though and why letting in soft goals hurt even if he plays spectacular up until that point.