OT: Hurricanes Lounge XLV: Y2K Twenty-Four Years Later

[Blueline Bomber]

Project 2025 is QAnon of thr left

Okay, if you say so.

 

[Derailed75]

Okay, if you say so.

Your conspiracy theories are dumb, ours are real!

Let me show you all my completely unbiased proof!

 

[Blueline Bomber]

Your conspiracy theories are dumb, ours are real!

Let me show you all my completely unbiased proof!

Like I said, if you say so. I'm really hoping you're right.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

This is normal







Even here in NC



Apparently these messages were spammed to people coast to coast. So normal.

Considering the messages have been targeting both sides of the political spectrum, I'd put money on it being the Russians. They've been trying (and succeeding) in sowing distrust and unrest in the US for years, and this is another example.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Shortening this so that responses don’t get unreadably long…

We 100% agree, thus why the statement that the Boomers are "profiting" off the Millennials argument makes no sense.

It doesn’t make sense from the standpoint of someone who put X into the system and expects to get X back out, having not taken the tax increases and retirement delays necessary to make that system sustainable. They see it as “I took out what I put in”.

Try to see it from the standpoint of someone who puts in X and gets back X/2, while also taking tax increases and retirement delays. Or the standpoint of someone who puts in X and gets 0. Those people see it as “I took a half share so another guy could take a full share”

Obviously that is going to lead to resentment of people who sat on the issue for 40+ years and danced off into the sunset, leaving others with the bill.

Not really. We have a two party system in which NEITHER party wants to address the issue. It's not like voters have many options. Also, I would venture a guess that the vast majority of Americans don't have any clue about the national debt or the problems SS face and aren't voting accordingly. Did 1 candidate in the past 20 years even talk about it?

You have either:
a) People that will always vote Re. or always vote Dem.
b) People that will vote for whatever candidate agrees with their stance on 1 particular issue (Abortion, Guns, Border, etc..).

America as a whole doesn't want Washington to do bad things, many are myopic in their views in who they vote for and there are only 2 choices, neither of who want to solve the issue. Politics have changed since the 70s and 80s. The primary focus of senators and reps. are to STAY IN OFFICE.

Who is "they". You are blaming a bunch of 60-75 year olds for not taking responsibility when they have very little power in a two party system in which neither party wants to solve the problem. The real issue is that politicians want to stay in office so don't make tough decisions.


We agree, thus my comment about the misplaced resentment.


In a two party systems when both parties refuse to address the issue, you are putting way too much burden on a given demographic. I assume you are in your late 30s or 40s. In the 20ish years you voted, which candidates have you voted for that would have solved the issue?

You specifically stated: "Again it’s very hard to ask a Millennial not to feel resentment toward the Boomers over this, as one group is very clearly profiting at the expense of the other."

So I took that to mean you don't think it's fair for Millenials to contribute to Social Security. If that's not what you meant, then that's fine.

Agree. but having resentment for the average 65-75 year olds, who want the same thing is hypocritical.

I don’t want to make this a R vs D thing, because the reality is both parties see this as a third rail and don’t want to talk about it.

But, just stating facts: Bernie Sanders authored a bill in 2019 which would have done the necessary and raised taxes to fix the system. Then-Senator Kamala Harris co-sponsored that legislation.

Unless I missed something (which is possible), Donald Trump’s only contribution to the discussion during his campaign was to promise NOT to cut benefits or raise the retirement age, which basically means the problem will only get worse until he’s out of office.

So yes, we have had opportunities to fix this. We vote for the guy who says he won’t do it. That’s not the politician’s fault, that’s America’s fault.

To be clear, I don't have an issue with it and wasn't stating that I did, but it's hypocrisy to say we want to take tax money from Baby Boomers who pay most of the federal taxes to help out millennials with student loans, and then at the same time, say millennials resent baby boomers for taking social security when it may not be solvent when they get to that age.

Again, the great majority of loan forgiveness does not involve taking anyone’s tax money. It simply means not continuing to take money from the public servants, scam victims, and disabled people who qualify for forgiveness.

 

[Unsustainable]

Considering the messages have been targeting both sides of the political spectrum, I'd put money on it being the Russians. They've been trying (and succeeding) in sowing distrust and unrest in the US for years, and this is another example.

China, Russia, and others need to create distraction and discourse.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

China, Russia, and others need to create distraction and discourse.

It's the new warfare and it's worked in the past. The bomb threats to Springfield, Ohio after the Haiti story? Out of country calls. The bomb threats to the polling places in Pennsylvania? Russia. And, of course, there was the 2016 election. Project Lakhta was that name.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

@tarheelhockey we aren't going to agree on this so I'm not going to keep responding. I'm very comfortable with my position on this and feel your resentment is misdirected, but neither of us will change each other's minds.

 

[LakeLivin]

There are plenty of situations where he has outright lied About things he’s said on camera, so I am not sure this the proof you think it is.

Look, hes already been in office. During his first tenure he did not raid schools and deport every Hispanic he found, he did not crash the economy, he did not destroy the Constitution and make himself a dictator, he did however have the economy humming along pretty well until Covid.

Basically, he was a loudmouth blowhard on social media, and his image sucked because of it. He ended up be a decent President, nothing special. He was nothing close to the monster the media made him out to be, and certainly not worth all the celebrity tears he has caused the last 2 days.

And thats different from all other politicians how?

To use an analogy, kind of like how everyone does 5 or 10mph over the speed limit at some point but very few do 70mph down a city street in front of a school during dismissal. Both are traffic violations, but yes, they're different.

It's said that if you repeat a lie often enough people will believe it. Seems like that's been one of Trump's most used tools in his toolbox during his entire career, and there are numerous examples, some that he himself has shared.

Here's a quote from Stephanie Grisham, a former Trump press secretary:
“But no, he knows he’s lying. He used to tell me when I was press secretary, ‘Go out there and say this.’ And if it was false, he would say, ‘It doesn’t matter, Stephanie. Just say it over and over and over again, people will believe it.’ He knows his base believes in him. He knows he can basically say anything and his base will believe what he’s saying,”

Alyssa Farah Griffin, his director of strategic communications, said pretty much the same thing.

Lesley Stahl, reporting on when she confronted him before an interview about his attacks on the press:
“He said you know why I do it? I do it to discredit you all and demean you all, so when you write negative stories about me no one will believe you.”

His lying is almost pathological and he appears incapable of admitting the truth even in the face of hard evidence. Go back and look at Trump's statements about Obama's birth certificate; a series of false statements repeated over and over even after they were debunked (which essentially kicked off his political career.) Remember when Trump mistakenly said that Alabama was in the projected path of hurricane Dorian? Wouldn't have been that big a deal if he admitted the mistake, but instead he took a sharpie and hilariously "augmented" the NWS map. Caught on tape calling Apple CEO Tim Cook Tim Apple; again, not a big deal, but he denied it ever happened in spite of the evidence. And let's not even get into his repeated statements about the 2020 election results. Or his mantra that China is paying any imposed tariffs, not that they're passed onto the consumer.

Closely related, google sportswriter Rick Reilly's book about Trump and golf and take a look at some of those reports. We're not talking just kicking the ball back into the fairway, there are reports of him hitting his ball into the water but having his caddy go ahead and swap out his ball for one on the green. Again, behavior that indicates a pathology.

What makes Trump's lies so dangerous is that 1) he has a sizeable number of people with a cult like following who will believe anything he says. And 2), he's leveraged power to the point that others who know he's lying will still support a lie either for their own gain or because they're afraid to contradict him. Then, throw in the what I believe are otherwise intelligent and reasonable people but ones who have fallen into such a right wing information silo that they aren't even aware when Trump is lying.

For the record, I'm somewhat of a unicorn in my surroundings in that I believe that an effective multiparty system is critical to the success of a nation, that absolute power corrupts, be it on the left or right. A good analogy would be the NHL without any kind of salary cap.

Anyways, sorry mods, delete if you want but I almost feel guilty that I haven't been pointing out some of these things to friends and colleagues over the past 8 years or so.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

Anyways, sorry mods, delete if you want but I almost feel guilty that I haven't been pointing out some of these things to friends and colleagues over the past 8 years or so.

I have, and let me tell you, it doesn’t help. Something about the guy makes people lose all sense of reason. His entire presidential career started with him making fun of a handicapped reporter and suggesting we commit war crimes to flush out terrorists. He was literally caught redhanded with highly classified documents in his bathtub, with photos and everything, and he faced zero consequences for it. He had a meeting with Putin, where no other advisors, reporters, ANYONE else, were allowed in the room, and he exited that meeting, got on camera, in front of microphones, and promptly trashed our foreign agents. Many of whom were killed or “mysteriously disappeared” in the weeks that followed. Literally EVERY cabinet member from his previous administration refused to endorse him this time around, and many of them, including multiple security experts, talked about how dangerous it would be to re-elect him.

Any number of things he’s said and done would not only have disqualified a normal person from the presidency, but often end up locked up for a very, very long time.

 

[NotOpie]

On a side note @NotOpie , I'm still a few years away from even being able to take SS at 62, but every time I do the math, I don't see why anyone would take it at 67 or 70. If I took it at 62 and ignored any investment I could get by investing that money and compared that to taking it at 67, it would take until age 83 before taking it at 67 would be more beneficial (in total) than taking it at 62. Online, it always says about 79 years old, but I see 83 in my spreadsheet.

Even by age 90, the total amount paid over that entire timeframe by taking it at 67 would only be 8% higher.

Have you done this analysis? If so, does it show something similar?

Well, I've done a number of analyses. In the end, it comes down to how much cash flow vs. investment income come into play. For me, the point that I retire will mostly be dictated by a decision on whether or not I want to keep doing a job I kinda like.

The difference for me with regard to social security nets out to about $1,000 a month. So my current plan is to continue to fund my 401K as much as I can and hopefully earn a few more years of sales bonuses. In the end, my wife and I have way too much house for what we'll need and will almost certainly downsize. That will take mortgage payments out of my financial planning.

We have also looked at potentially moving out of the country for a period of our "golden years". I like Panama; she's partial to Spain. The main consideration is more about adventure than anything else (although the cost of living appears to be significantly lower). But it likely doesn't happen as we're close to our kids and grandkids, but who knows.

Lastly, I really like living in the Triangle so that's a very powerful consideration.

In the end, I probably didn't answer your question.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Well, I've done a number of analyses. In the end, it comes down to how much cash flow vs. investment income come into play. For me, the point that I retire will mostly be dictated by a decision on whether or not I want to keep doing a job I kinda like.

The difference for me with regard to social security nets out to about $1,000 a month. So my current plan is to continue to fund my 401K as much as I can and hopefully earn a few more years of sales bonuses. In the end, my wife and I have way too much house for what we'll need and will almost certainly downsize. That will take mortgage payments out of my financial planning.

We have also looked at potentially moving out of the country for a period of our "golden years". I like Panama; she's partial to Spain. The main consideration is more about adventure than anything else (although the cost of living appears to be significantly lower). But it likely doesn't happen as we're close to our kids and grandkids, but who knows.

Lastly, I really like living in the Triangle so that's a very powerful consideration.

In the end, I probably didn't answer your question.

thanks. I'll move the discussion to a PM so others don't have to read through it.

 

[Svechhammer]

For the record, I'm somewhat of a unicorn in my surroundings in that I believe that an effective multiparty system is critical to the success of a nation, that absolute power corrupts, be it on the left or right. A good analogy would be the NHL without any kind of salary cap.

Fully with you on this one. But I'll also say that the best government requires a multiparty system that works together. Things haven't been great for a while, but I do fully believe the major cracks in the system showed in Obama's second term when McConnell stonewalled anything the Democrats were trying to do, especially SC nominations, by just refusing to to bring anything to the floor. Thats when you knew full well that the system was fundamentally flawed and there was probably no saving it.

I have, and let me tell you, it doesn’t help. Something about the guy makes people lose all sense of reason. His entire presidential career started with him making fun of a handicapped reporter and suggesting we commit war crimes to flush out terrorists. He was literally caught redhanded with highly classified documents in his bathtub, with photos and everything, and he faced zero consequences for it. He had a meeting with Putin, where no other advisors, reporters, ANYONE else, were allowed in the room, and he exited that meeting, got on camera, in front of microphones, and promptly trashed our foreign agents. Many of whom were killed or “mysteriously disappeared” in the weeks that followed. Literally EVERY cabinet member from his previous administration refused to endorse him this time around, and many of them, including multiple security experts, talked about how dangerous it would be to re-elect him.

Any number of things he’s said and done would not only have disqualified a normal person from the presidency, but often end up locked up for a very, very long time.

I mean Russia told us they were going to destroy the US from the inside out and they were right. The rest of the world will probably look back at this era 20 years from now and widely admit that Russia won the cold war. The Soviet Union might have fallen, but they made the US an ally.

 

[Svechhammer]

This is normal







Even here in NC



Apparently these messages were spammed to people coast to coast. So normal.

The FBI has issued a statement

 

[WreckingCrew]

I just find it funny that anyone thinks any politician for either of the two-party system isn't a pathological liar...it's one of the requirements of being a politician

 

[Blueline Bomber]

There's different levels of lying. Most politicians are liars, true. And they'll say whatever it is they need to to get your vote.

But if they get caught in a lie, most people would either try to maneuver the topic away from the lie, or deny weakly before eventually resigning in shame.

Trump will double down on the lie. He won't deny that he said it. He'll just deny that what he's saying is a lie in the first place, even when all the evidence says otherwise. And he does this with EVERY lie, no matter how small.

Take "covfefe" for example. Obviously a spelling mistake when typing. But no, according to Trump, it's a secret message that's meant for select few

 

[Unsustainable]

I just find it funny that anyone thinks any politician for either of the two-party system isn't a pathological liar...it's one of the requirements of being a politician

It's also tribalism, living in echo chambers where your perception is not questioned, and propaganda works on feelings. Anything you read or watch, you need to research it yourself, find the actual quotes and what was said prior and after for the context of the statement.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

It's also tribalism, living in echo chambers where your perception is not questioned, and propaganda works on feelings. Anything you read or watch, you need to research it yourself, find the actual quotes and what was said prior and after for the context of the statement.

I'm not aiming this at you @Unsustainable just making a general comment.

What's just as bad is one side thinking the other side is living in an echo chamber while ignoring the echo chamber they are living in. Both sides do it.

Re: Research: these days, one is able to find a "source" on the internet that supports just about any position and also claim bias, lying or fake news for any source that doesn't support a position. It's non-stop spin.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

The FBI has issued a statement

Threats of violence over the Internet go to the FBI though, right? Since it's probably beyond the scope of local police?

I ask because (somewhat unsurprisingly) there's been a large uptick in tweets threatening women in the past 48 hours. Stuff like "Your body, my choice" and this v

https://x.com/i/web/status/1854247807735214298

Probably need to, at the very least, be investigated to ensure it's not anything more than talk.

 

[Unsustainable]

I'm not aiming this at you @Unsustainable just making a general comment.

What's just as bad is one side thinking the other side is living in an echo chamber while ignoring the echo chamber they are living in. Both sides do it.

Re: Research: these days, one is able to find a "source" on the internet that supports just about any position and also claim bias, lying or fake news for any source that doesn't support a position. It's non-stop spin.

Mine wasn't aimed at on nor the other, if you watch primarily MSNBC because it agrees with your confirmation bias, you're not more informed about a topic as someone who watches News Max.

 

[Svechhammer]

Threats of violence over the Internet go to the FBI though, right? Since it's probably beyond the scope of local police?

I ask because (somewhat unsurprisingly) there's been a large uptick in tweets threatening women in the past 48 hours. Stuff like "Your body, my choice" and this v

https://x.com/i/web/status/1854247807735214298

Probably need to, at the very least, be investigated to ensure it's not anything more than talk.

I mean that whole 'your body my choice' is being led by this guy



And given he's already met with Trump a couple times, doubt the government takes a look into it at all

 

[WreckingCrew]

I'm not aiming this at you @Unsustainable just making a general comment.

What's just as bad is one side thinking the other side is living in an echo chamber while ignoring the echo chamber they are living in. Both sides do it.

Re: Research: these days, one is able to find a "source" on the internet that supports just about any position and also claim bias, lying or fake news for any source that doesn't support a position. It's non-stop spin.

Both sides also act as though they have some objective moral high-ground but morals are highly subjective, especially to nuance. People like to ignore grey area and act like everything is black and white. The echo chambers and moral bubbles have been wild the past 2 days, like you said, on both sides. I hate that some people I care about are feeling this impending doom, but some are also making up some wild-ass scenarios that are highly unlikely to happen but are letting it bother them because it COULD happen. I know it'd be the same (but opposite) if Harris won, you'd have conservatives worried about an open-borders invasion that would tear our country apart.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

It's also tribalism, living in echo chambers where your perception is not questioned, and propaganda works on feelings. Anything you read or watch, you need to research it yourself, find the actual quotes and what was said prior and after for the context of the statement.

Does it help to do research AFTER you voted for the guy?

 

[tarheelhockey]

I mean that whole 'your body my choice' is being led by this guy



And given he's already met with Trump a couple times, doubt the government takes a look into it at all

Maybe it’s just me, but that guy sends my gaydar into DEFCON 10.

 

[Stickpucker]

Lol man if you're worried about having to explain that, imagine trying to explain WAP

Is this a network protocol I never heard of?