OT: Hurricanes Lounge XLV: Y2K Twenty-Four Years Later

Blueline Bomber

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And with all due respect what has that gotten them?

A 2nd term of Trump with control of the house and senate, this time knowing its going to be supercharged with a hyper-conservative agenda that they put in writing, and a conservative super-majority in the Supreme Court probably for the rest of our lifetime.

And to be clear, the people who want to silence women and minorities are by no means the majority here, but by focusing on policies that make straight white men consistently feel like they're being told they are the problem with everything in this country, you're going to inevitably have them aligned with the Tates and Fuentes out there because, again, they will hit on enough talking points to make that much more broad segment feel heard.

The policy they focused on was abortion rights, a topic that affects men almost as much as women. It's not portrayed as such, because most people have the critical thinking skills of field mice. And ultimately, that's what this all comes down to. It's not policy, it's not gender or identity politics, it's ignorance.

People voted on vibes, not policy. That's why you're getting so many people that are JUST now figuring out what Trump's tariffs mean. That's why, in a study, when presented with a list of policies completely blind, no names attached, people on both sides of the political spectrum and undecided voters picked Harris' over Trump's the majority of the time.

Again, I don't disagree that the Democrats need to do a better job of getting their messages across. Clearly, what they've been doing isn't working (and frankly, losing ground on "always blue" states should be a MAJOR wake up call).

But ultimately, they simply need a more charismatic candidate that can explain their messages in a way that the least educated American can understand. Tim Walz was GREAT at that. He came out swinging, used football analogies, car talk, and wasn't afraid to "go low" to emphasize his point. Then like a week later, he was completely neutered by the campaign advisors. Because they completely missed WHO Walz was really talking to
 

Blueline Bomber

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Anyway, I think we're at like 5 pages of politics, which is gotta be a record on here. But I'm exhausted by the entire prospect at this point and it's not going to change any minds on here, so I'm just going to do my best to stop responding here.
 
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Unsustainable

Seth Jarvis has Big Kahunas
Apr 14, 2012
39,073
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Oh don't get me wrong, the left have a lot to answer for after this election. But if "women are property" is the message that IS resonating with them, that's a problem for the country, politics aside.
That is a small outlier that needs to be ousted. No room for that. On the flip side, the left didn't give any confidence to young males.
Look, I know you're a big RFKJR supporter, so I'm not going to go too hard on the guy, but all I'll say is that he's pushing forth some messages that will not work out as planned. Just scientifically, it's not happening.
I know that big pharma went into panic mode with knowing that RFKjr is now over HHS.
 

Unsustainable

Seth Jarvis has Big Kahunas
Apr 14, 2012
39,073
108,833
North Carolina
Anyway, I think we're at like 5 pages of politics, which is gotta be a record on here. But I'm exhausted by the entire prospect at this point and it's not going to change any minds on here, so I'm just going to do my best to stop responding here.
If you're interested in where I am in the political part of things, Dave Smith is who align with the most. He has a pod cast called Part of the Problem. I think he's the best voice for how my mind works.
 

Derailed75

Registered User
Jan 5, 2021
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Danville
I think you guys are missing some huge reasons why the Dems lost and blaming voters ignorance, is pretty on par with the media as they are also blaming tons of stuff but ignoring some important stuff.

Trust of the Democratic party is fragile right now. Between what the DNC did to Sanders in 2016 and intentionally hiding Bidens metal state from the public until their donors forced them to remove him from running is a huge issue for a lot of people not beholden to either party

The fact that they called large amounts of the voting base "trash" if they weren't planning on voting for them was another.

Obama calling black men misogynistic if they didn't vote for Kamala was a big mistake.

Finally Kamala was horrible is almost every interview. For example when Anderson Cooper question her platform and how policies she intended to put in place differed from how her current administration did things she rambled on for about 5 minutes and said absolutely nothing.

Paraphrasing her "Well Anderson there's more to do. It needs to be done but wasn't so we are going to do it because it hasn't been done and needs to"

It wasn't just a charisma thing, she was an awful candidate and very few people outside of hard-core Dems wanted her to be president. I think that was pretty evident by how the public voted.
 

tarheelhockey

Offside Review Specialist
Feb 12, 2010
86,568
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Bojangles Parking Lot
Oh I think the Democratic party absolutely lost the plot when it came to caring at all about men, especially straight white men and I do fully believe that its the leading cause for them to continually get their asses kicked in elections. Take this for example:



And read that message. A patting of the liberals on the back for helping to empower women to be more dominant in the workforce. But look at those charts. Yes, there have been a lot of strides to help out women, but look at that chart for people with a degree and look at how it cratered for men starting around 1980 and only started correcting itself around 2010. Those policies essentially created a generation of men who legitimately feel left behind because they just never got the same help in their lifetime that was afforded to women. And now that generation is out in the workforce competing for jobs in a market where the US government is pushing policies that financially rewards companies for hiring women and people of color. And as I've said before, this job market is brutal right now.

The Dems have to stop playing identity politics. Stop basing your entire political agenda around pushing social issues based on gender or race. The only thing that agenda has done is rile up and give a platform to some of the absolute worst people out there, because they make the controlling majority feel heard.


Upthread I mentioned the ticking time bomb that nobody’s addressing in the future of the public sector.

Another economic time bomb that’s being almost willfully ignored on the left: young men are falling farther and farther behind in educational performance and attainment. I do NOT mean they are equalizing with women. Women passed them in practically every meaningful metric a generation ago. Boys are just failing en masse. Close to nothing is being done to address this, or even understand it.

This is deeply not OK. We can talk about the glass ceiling and wage equality and all the rest of it, but those issues aren’t solved by reversing educational attainment for boys. That’s economic suicide. Our economy is structured around the assumption of two-income households. It’s not like we’re going to gender-reverse and suddenly see men becoming stay at home husbands — what we’re going to see is increasing numbers of men failing to compete economically. Today’s computer programmer is tomorrow’s burger flipper.

This is all happening on top of a bunch of other unsettling trends for men in the workforce. Some of the numbers are striking. Unemployment among non-disabled, prime-aged men is higher now than it was during the Great Depression. College-educated men today are more likely to be unemployed than high school dropouts were in 1965. The rate of labor force participation among black men in 1965 was higher than the same rate among white men in 2015. A lot of the men who have fallen out of the workforce are the dreaded “parents’ basement dwelling incel” whose failure is chalked up to being an inherent loser. Fifty years ago he would just be a single working guy in an apartment. The generational implications of that negative shift are profound.

These trends are covered up by our tendency to look at the bottom line (“unemployment”, GDP) and by the rise of women, minorities, and immigrant labor in the workforce. The left celebrates women, minorities, and immigrants (and rightfully as equality is important) but they completely ignore the educational and economic reversals that are occurring in that other wedge of the demographic pie.

And it’s not like people haven’t been screaming at the left to wake up about these issues. We were having this same conversation in 2016. But Dems tend to reflexively view the concern for white people or for men as reactionary conservatism (or worse). The summer of 2020 exacerbated that dynamic by mainstreaming the idea that “safe places” involved white men sitting in a corner and shutting up so that others could have a platform. And so Dems keep falling farther behind with groups that used to be unshakably blue, like union workers and young men and Latinos who actually are seeing the right wing as empowering.

If this election didn’t lay out the bare truth to Dem leadership, I don’t know what else could. They're not going to be able to “coalition” their way out of these issues. They need to be able to be authentically liberal while also authentically giving a damn about the future of the entire population, not just target demographics.
 
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Svechhammer

THIS is hockey?
Jun 8, 2017
25,410
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And it’s not like people haven’t been screaming at the left to wake up about these issues. We were having this same conversation in 2016. But Dems tend to reflexively view the concern for white people or for men as reactionary conservatism (or worse). The summer of 2020 exacerbated that dynamic by mainstreaming the idea that “safe places” involved white men sitting in a corner and shutting up so that others could have a platform. And so Dems keep falling farther behind with groups that used to be unshakably blue, like union workers and young men and Latinos who actually are seeing the right wing as empowering.

If this election didn’t lay out the bare truth to Dem leadership, I don’t know what else could. They're not going to be able to “coalition” their way out of these issue. They need to be able to be authentically liberal while also authentically giving a damn about the future of the entire population, not just target demographics.

And we are going to continue talking about this forever because the Democratic Party will never learn. They're too far gone to realize the reason they keep losing is because they do painfully little to get straight white men to care about their policies. And instead, they'll just keep attacking them, calling them misogynists and racists in hopes of bullying them into a vote, while at the same time telling those same men to sit out on any meaningful dialogue because their majority voice doesn't need to be heard on their issues.
 

Negan4Coach

Fantastic and Stochastic
Aug 31, 2017
6,024
15,286
Raleigh, NC
The policy they focused on was abortion rights, a topic that affects men almost as much as women. It's not portrayed as such, because most people have the critical thinking skills of field mice. And ultimately, that's what this all comes down to. It's not policy, it's not gender or identity politics, it's ignorance.

People voted on vibes, not policy. That's why you're getting so many people that are JUST now figuring out what Trump's tariffs mean. That's why, in a study, when presented with a list of policies completely blind, no names attached, people on both sides of the political spectrum and undecided voters picked Harris' over Trump's the majority of the time.

Again, I don't disagree that the Democrats need to do a better job of getting their messages across. Clearly, what they've been doing isn't working (and frankly, losing ground on "always blue" states should be a MAJOR wake up call).

But ultimately, they simply need a more charismatic candidate that can explain their messages in a way that the least educated American can understand. Tim Walz was GREAT at that. He came out swinging, used football analogies, car talk, and wasn't afraid to "go low" to emphasize his point. Then like a week later, he was completely neutered by the campaign advisors. Because they completely missed WHO Walz was really talking to
Woah- woah...everything else aside...you can't REALLY believe that a guy like Tim Walz is what resonates with men, do you? Tim Waltz is a grotesque caricature of what the corporate Democrat consultant class who were long ago emasculated on elite ivy league campuses imagines passes for "masculinity" in the real world.


And no- you're never going to find a left wing "Joe Rogan" to "move young men towards feminism" as that weirdo on Morning Joe said this morning. I mean wow.

Where are you seeing this.
Really? You would think that after this week gaslighting would be dropped writ large as a strategy
 

Blueline Bomber

AI Generated Minnesota Wild
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Oct 31, 2007
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Woah- woah...everything else aside...you can't REALLY believe that a guy like Tim Walz is what resonates with men, do you? Tim Waltz is a grotesque caricature of what the corporate Democrat consultant class who were long ago emasculated on elite ivy league campuses imagines passes for "masculinity" in the real world.


And no- you're never going to find a left wing "Joe Rogan" to "move young men towards feminism" as that weirdo on Morning Joe said this morning. I mean wow.


Really? You would think that after this week gaslighting would be dropped writ large as a strategy

I mean, Tim Walz seems like a guy that loves his family deeply, is beloved by his students/student athletes, and is confident enough in his masculinity to not to be concerned about what others may say about him.

I'm sure the circles you've been encapsulated in have painted a very different picture.
 

Unsustainable

Seth Jarvis has Big Kahunas
Apr 14, 2012
39,073
108,833
North Carolina
I mean, Tim Walz seems like a guy that loves his family deeply, is beloved by his students/student athletes, and is confident enough in his masculinity to not to be concerned about what others may say about him.

I'm sure the circles you've been encapsulated in have painted a very different picture.
To me he came off as fake, Vance came off as sincere and relatable in all of the interviews I seen.
 

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