OT: Hurricanes Lounge XL. 99 Luftballons

[NotOpie]

Did you really TLDR to Hank's post and then go on and make your own post about 3 times as long?

Nah, it was a warning that my post was long as shit...I tried to do a shorter TLDR synopsis

 

[Lempo]

It is a First Amendment issue. Not necessarily the freedom of speech aspect (though there's certainly an argument that could be made there), but more of a freedom of assembly aspect.

They have a right to "come together and collectively express, promote, pursue, and defend their collective or shared ideas."

We'll whaddya know, I had let myself be told that 1st Amendment = ~Freedom of Speech and not much else. Thanks.


Well f*** you too, Melanie Griffith!

 

[Deon Thompson]

Lastly, the vast majority of both homicides and suicides are handgun deaths.

Everybody loves to argue about AR-pattern rifles. I get it, they look sexy. If we cared about reducing the homicide rate, or even the firearm homicide rate, instead of destroying a symbol of violence/defending a symbol of freedom, we'd be debating the merits of keeping cheap, shitty Glock knockoffs out of the hands of young men with a history of violent behavior.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

We'll whaddya know, I had let myself be told that 1st Amendment = ~Freedom of Speech and not much else. Thanks.


Well f*** you too, Melanie Griffith!

Oh no, First Amendment is freedom of speech, press, assembly, religion and petition. It's more in-depth than that, obviously, but that's a basic idea.

 

[Negan4Coach]

Oh yeah? Which country is going to pretend we have weapons of mass destruction, invade us with a massively superior military, remove our government, completely upend all civil society, arrest everyone competent from the ruling party that might be able to help with a transition, and then pay for the creation of religious based militias?

Come on, now. You've got better arguments than that.

All those external factors came into play to unleash tribal, ethnic, religious and political hatreds that had been simmering forever in that region of the world, and created carnage like you wouldn't believe. Right now the sectarian violence here is limited to sporadic shootings by people who have nothing to lose- you take away basic goods and services, economic activity, etc- and we may fondly remember the days when the violence only involved small arms and not truck bombs that annihilate entire city blocks. IDK how many banks need to collapse before that happens, but...

Our schools should be teaching that despite our barbaric past- we've moved far beyond that in a very short period of time- and should be preaching unity instead of fixating on what makes us different and "special". Instead of my daughter's history class in 2020 whose block of instruction on WWII was ENTIRELY the Japanese internment camps and how using nukes on them was a war crime. The ugliness should be taught, yes. But not to the exclusion of all else.

 

[Negan4Coach]

Everybody loves to argue about AR-pattern rifles. I get it, they look sexy. If we cared about reducing the homicide rate, or even the firearm homicide rate, instead of destroying a symbol of violence/defending a symbol of freedom, we'd be debating the merits of keeping cheap, shitty Glock knockoffs out of the hands of young men with a history of violent behavior.

I think everybody is wasting a lot of time with the whole gun debate. It's pretty useless- neither side is going to change their view one iota, and it is clear that whatever legislation that gets passed is not going to make the hundreds of millions of firearms of all types in circulation magically disappear.

What I want to talk about is why violence is fetishized in our culture. Why do we have no problem letting our kids watch countless murders in movies? Or rehearsing first person murder over and over in video games? Hollywood celebrities speak out against guns- yet have no problem parading around with them in front of a camera to make a paycheck. We worship people who willingly sign up to commit violence in a uniform under the color of authority. Human cage fighters are celebrated. Art doesn't imitate life- life imitates art, completely. Many people buy ARs simply because they think John Wick is cool. They do what they've been conditioned to do. IDK how you get that toothpaste back in the tube- but people have to be encouraged to stop seeing violence as something that is "cool".

We always had the guns- we never had this kind of sick crap until the internet. I lived in Belgium- they have access to the same guns we do if they want. But they don't want. They aren't a violent people. Hell I never even saw a fistfight there despite all the drinking going on. We've always been a violent people, but modern technology and Hollywood have supercharged it.

 

[ndp]

Our schools should be teaching that despite our barbaric past- we've moved far beyond that in a very short period of time- and should be preaching unity instead of fixating on what makes us different and "special".

We as a nation are very different though, a black, latinx or LGBTQwhatever person lives a very different life than the majority of cis white people in America. And it’s usually not by choice.

Workplace, financial, authoritative and multitudes of other race based discrimination are all very real things that still exist and impact millions of Americans lives daily. The way to fix it is to point it out, teach the next generation that it’s wrong and not acceptable. One of the easiest ways to do that is by pointing out the atrocities committed by those who were here before us. How’s that old quote go?

“Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it,”

I was at the gun shop a few weeks ago and a group of off duty deputies were making racist and antisemitic jokes so loud that the owner had to come tell them to take it down a notch. Not stop, just lower the volume so as not to potentially upset any of his other customers. I’m glad my very Jewish wife decided to sit in the car while I was in there.

Racism, antisemitism and plenty of other forms of religious and race based discrimination is very much still an issue for millions of Americans and not talking or teaching about it isn’t going to make it any better.

The ugliness should be taught, yes. But not to the exclusion of all else.

100% agree with this.

 

[Negan4Coach]

We as a nation are very different though, a black, latinx or LGBTQwhatever person lives a very different life than the majority of cis white people in America. And it’s usually not by choice.

Workplace, financial, authoritative and multitudes of other race based discrimination are all very real things that still exist and impact millions of Americans lives daily. The way to fix it is to point it out, teach the next generation that it’s wrong and not acceptable. One of the easiest ways to do that is by pointing out the atrocities committed by those who were here before us. How’s that old quote go?

“Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it,”

I was at the gun shop a few weeks ago and a group of off duty deputies were making racist and antisemitic jokes so loud that the owner had to come tell them to take it down a notch. Not stop, just lower the volume so as not to potentially upset any of his other customers. I’m glad my very Jewish wife decided to sit in the car while I was in there.

Racism, antisemitism and plenty of other forms of religious and race based discrimination is very much still an issue for millions of Americans and not talking or teaching about it isn’t going to make it any better.

100% agree with this.

Well at least now we're getting somewhere- you've finally acknowledged that these real or perceived inequities are being "pointed out", instead of trying to pretend that teachers aren't attempting to "fix" it themselves.

Teachers need to be focused on educating children in science, math, reading and writing and history. It is not up to them to right what they think are wrongs by shaping the children's thoughts and opinions. Just give them the information.

When you fixate on past injustices and then tell them those injustices still exist and are systemic and that everyone who is white and hetero and "cis" are complicit in them- you naturally create resentment in those groups for the country and their fellow Americans. And you create resentment and demoralization in the majority group as well. When you weave that narrative into every single class, you get the kids thinking about it and their differences all the time. They should be being taught to ignore their differences.

In the course of a single human lifetime, we've seen an astonishing level of change and increase in tolerance for others here. Hell when I was born, a woman was still unable to get a credit card without her husbands approval. This pace of change might not impress the young- but it far exceeds any other country or part of history. Trying to unnaturally accelerate it will only lead to regression and political instability.

Just out of curiosity... was it a he, a she, white, black or what?

Black female.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

 

[Svechhammer]

View attachment 677658

It depresses me how commonplace this has become since I sat through the vigil service the day after he VT shooting when I was a student.

But at least we have a bunch of thoughts and prayers directed toward us.

 

[Sens1Canes2]

A focus on treatment of mental illness, instead of celebrating it, would help.

 

[cptjeff]

A focus on treatment of mental illness, instead of celebrating it, would help.

Plenty of other countries have mental illness problems. We're the only one that has these mass shootings. It's the guns. Maybe bringing back the assault weapons ban that expired pretty much exactly when the explosion in mass shootings started would be an idea?

 

[hockeynjune]

Plenty of other countries have mental illness problems. We're the only one that has these mass shootings. It's the guns. Maybe bringing back the assault weapons ban that expired pretty much exactly when the explosion in mass shootings started would be an idea?

Why not both

 

[Svechhammer]

Why not both

Sure

But start with the ban.

 

[hockeynjune]

Sure

But start with the ban.

I have no issue with that except not sure how you get them all back. There are millions in homes all over the country.

 

[Sens1Canes2]

Plenty of other countries have mental illness problems. We're the only one that has these mass shootings. It's the guns. Maybe bringing back the assault weapons ban that expired pretty much exactly when the explosion in mass shootings started would be an idea?

I’m not sure there’s evidence to suggest the assault weapons ban did anything to curb gun violence.

As always … I could be wrong.

PS - as non-partisan as possible, I ask a question: didn’t the democrats have both houses of Congress and the President for 2 full years?

 

[hockeynjune]

A focus on treatment of mental illness, instead of celebrating it, would help.

Not sure we celebrate as much as ignore them.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

I’m not sure there’s evidence to suggest the assault weapons ban did anything to curb gun violence.

As always … I could be wrong.

PS - as non-partisan as possible, I ask a question: didn’t the democrats have both houses of Congress and the President for 2 full years?

The red line on that chart I posted earlier was when the ban was repealed.

 

[cptjeff]

I have no issue with that except not sure how you get them all back. There are millions in homes all over the country.

Over time with attrition and police work. If you can't take them to the range and shoot them without getting them confiscated, and maybe there's some sort of trade in credit for a legal rifle, you'll bring the numbers down over time.

 

[hockeynjune]

Over time with attrition and police work. If you can't take them to the range and shoot them without getting them confiscated, and maybe there's some sort of trade in credit for a legal rifle, you'll bring the numbers down over time.

You saw where I said millions. Very few Leo’s will be keen on confiscating legally obtained rifles. It is a huge problem we should have addressed years ago. A buy back would be the best chance but they generally have had mediocre results in the past.

 

[Svechhammer]

I have no issue with that except not sure how you get them all back. There are millions in homes all over the country.

Cash 4 Clunkers

But with guns

 

[Sens1Canes2]

The red line on that chart I posted earlier was when the ban was repealed.

Well … it wasn’t repealed. Also, someone posted elsewhere about total homicides with “assault weapons” (that’s in quotes for a reason) and the % is very very low. Anyways. No one’s minds are being changed.

 

[hockeynjune]

Cash 4 Clunkers

But with guns

It would get some back for sure. I believe that timeline is pretty accurate in the chart. A lot of those guns bought after the ban expired went in closets and never get used. You would get most of those back I think.

 

[Svechhammer]

It would get some back for sure. I believe that timeline is pretty accurate in the chart. A lot of those guns bought after the ban expired went in closets and never get used. You would get most of those back I think.

I'd also tax the everliving shit out of ammunition. You might not be able to eliminate the guns, but you sure as heck could squeeze the supply of bullets dry

 

[VaCaps Fan]

Just don’t let clearly crazy people buy guns, that’s all I ask.