Prospect Info: Hunter Brzustewicz: 75th Overall 2023 Draft (Kitchener) - RD
- Thread starter Mr. Canucklehead
- Start date
Wry n Ginger
Water which is too pure has no fish
krutovsdonut
eeyore
- Sep 25, 2016
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first off not my point. my point is doing the bare minmum academically is not good enough for many families and the chl loses a lot of kids to that approach. that includes the approach i mentioned of those hockey kids who want to go to university doing the bare minimum to get into university.
you saying the "kids are not getting left behind" is based on your low expectations for other people's children and the fact you are not a parent facing the kind of decisions parents make for 15 year olds as regards their education. parents do not want their kids doing the bare minimum and kids don't reach their full academic potential doing the bare minimum. being better than they used to be is not a benchmark for the chl to be proud of.
but more than that, i checked and what you said is just not correct. you claim that "basically every chl player goes to a professional hockey career or gets a degree in a major canadian university".
that is not the case. it's actually around 40% of whl grads attending major canadian universities.
overall, it appears under 70% of chl players claim scholarships for all post-secondary institutions including technical schools and community colleges with no admission requirements other than high school.
which means even with all the tutoring, the large multi-year scholarship incentives and the fact these kids are attractive student athletes for ciau hockey programs, the chl manages a post-secondary record weaker than many high schools.
it's definitely weaker than my kids' high school. so why would any parent with a kid in that high school want them in the chl?
and admission to top academic schools is particularly bleak. the whl issued just three scholarships to the university of toronto last year., which is rated as the best university in canada. that's not just entry scholarships, that's total whl students attending u of t last year out of over 500 whl players who graduated the whl in the last four years.
i would bet every high school in bc can beat the whl on that record. my kids' immediate peer group beats those numbers and i live in a small town and they attended a pretty average not very big high school.
which, again, is my point. if you want your kids to have the best chance at a strong academic future, the chl is not your huckleberry. it's a very risky gamble on the nhl at the expense of academics. so the chl loses many possible hockey players. and that trend of parents opting their kids out of chl hockey is growing. trust me. i just went through it in a hockey town with my kids attending a high school with a very strong hockey stream and tradition. the hockey kids are a joke academically among the serious students there and the teachers. it's not a jock thing. it is a systematic culture and attitude towards education as a necessary evil from the hockey players and their handlers that does not exist with other student athletes. i could go into more detail on that, but i would not be citing any sources.
here is some further data and math to ponder:
the chl has 60 teams. there are 23 players on a roster. so there are a minimum of 1380 players who accrue a year of post-secondary scholarship eligibilty each year with approximately 20-25% of them graduating the chl each year. the potential total scholarships earned annually are higher than 1380 taking into account injured athletes who get replaced by other kids in season, and seasonal roster turnover. to be conservative i will use 1380.
we can track post-secondary attendance since the leagues report scholarships actual scholarswhips used . in 2023 the whl awarded 342 scholarships. the ohl awarded 333. for q figures, the closest i can find is 2019 at 220. so let's generously say 1000 total from the chl per year. in 2019 it was 946 total so pretty similar.
those two numbers are comparable rolling numbers. chl careers and college undergraduate careers both last approximately 4-5 years with some foreshortening of both.
so from this you get my estimate that a little under 70% of chl players actually attend some kind of post-secondary education. but that is not "major canadian universities". the scholarships mentioned above include technical and training schools and colleges and community colleges. no disrespect to those places, but they are not "major universities" as you claimed. they generally have little or no admission requirements beyond a high school diploma.
for "major universities", we can do a bit of a deep dive with the whl 2023 list which lists the schools where its athletes attend.
from that list i make out 205 of the 346 scholarships listed are for athletes attending "major universitiies", if you count every large well established university in canada. that number is maybe 10% higher if you count every school calling itself a university, but you said "major".
now there are 506 players in the whl in a given year. so in reality, less than 40% of whl players not making the nhl are attending major universities.
so yes, a not insubstantial portion of them are going to post-secondary education, but the success rate is underwhelming
Most of the rest of those players go on to pro careers. Guys who spend 10-15 years playing pro hockey aren't going to be going to university.
Of the guys that don't get drafted/sign pro contracts, most go on to university educations.
The WHL also isn't running high schools. They don't have control over this like an NCAA university does ... and in the NCAA players faking it through to get degrees is still rampant.
anecdotally one of my relatives works closely with a number of nhl and ex-nhl players and has a son who was heavily recruited by the chl (but who was not a legit pro prospect). on the advice of ex-chl players he sent his kid down the ncaa route. almost uniformly the ex-chl players recommended against the chl mainly because of academic reasons (but also because of the culture)
If you're not a legit pro prospect and are reasonably intelligent it's very obviously a much better idea to take the Tier II/NCAA route and get the guaranteed education and be playing high-level hockey (and still a 'prospect') until you're age 24 instead of age 21.
krutovsdonut
eeyore
- Sep 25, 2016
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so you downgraded from "basically every chl player plays pro hockey or gets a degree from a major university" we now have "most athletes who don't go pro go on to university educations".
i like how your sights are thereby lowering from 95% to 51% and downgtrading the standard of university without acknowledging anything. i accept your concession but you are still missing the point.
80 athletes got drafted from the chl this year. most of those do not make it. over 1380 athletes in the league earned a year of scholarship eligibility. the chl itself tells its athletes they have a 5% shot at the nhl. even if you include all pro hockey contracts at all levels that does not move the dial and it completely misses my point for you to discount those outcomes on the positive side of the ledger. a fruitless three year career in the echl while your chl scholarshp eligibility expires in 18 months only reinforces the fact that the chl is a bad bet for kids and their parents and a great way to derail or downgrade the future potential of your child in real life after hockey.
remember this is not a stats discussion. you're not taking it seriously. you'd do well to think about this and not just spout from the hip with a flippant answes posted way too fast for you to have checked any sources or given any serious though to what i said.
What?
This is literally exactly the same statement.
Also, a lot of players just don't want to go to university for academic reasons or otherwise and that's why they chose the CHL in the first place. It's a no different snapshot of people than any high school where some guys want to go to uni and some want to go into trades or become firefighters/cops or whatever.
krutovsdonut
eeyore
- Sep 25, 2016
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it's not the same statement. your original statement was completely dismissive of a problem you now acknowledge and it also was plainly false. you made it without any sources and you have shamelessly tried to bluster your way out of being dead wrong.
you are now basically admitting that the chl is best for people without academic ambitions which is making my point for me which you originally tried to refute. my whole point is that the premier hockey development league in canada should not be requiring its athletes to sacrifice their academic potential to the degree it does as a condition of entry and that it is losing lots of potentially talented smart athletes as a result. this whole discussion started when i stated the chl is going to have less elite talent going forward because of this.
Again, what?
It's literally exactly the same statement. If you look look down a WHL roster, most guys either go on to careers in pro hockey or end up going to a major Canadian university. I said the exact same thing twice, but you're claiming somehow I changed from '95% to 51%'.
The main advantage to going to the NCAA if you're not a premier prospect is that it blows out your prospect status by an extra 2-3 years and gives you a longer runway to get an NHL shot, not the academic stuff.
The CHL is doing fine and the educational landscape and opportunities are totally different then they were in the 1980s and 1990s, when what you're saying was actually true.
krutovsdonut
eeyore
- Sep 25, 2016
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no it isn't the same statement at all. we both know that. you're just spouting nonsense now hoping to muddy or derail this discussion or get it deleted as off topic now because you are embarrassed.
i am out.
have a nice day.
Raistlin
Registered User
- Aug 25, 2006
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Didn't follow Brzustewicz too closely at Development Camp or the Prospects Tournament, but since he wracked up 50 points in the OHL last season, we should have foreseen an offensive breakout this year.
But what he's doing offensively this year in a very good Major Junior League is insane. So obviously he's an elite level offensive talent from the blueline.
So what does he need to work on? Is it his play in his zone? I guess when you have the puck all the time, it's going to be hard to dramatically improve that side of his game. I note that he's not the biggest guy in the world at 6', 185, so I'm guessing he also has to get stronger.
But I'm having trouble remembering a single kid the Canucks have drafted who went back and lit it up in his draft-plus-one year like this kid.
But what he's doing offensively this year in a very good Major Junior League is insane. So obviously he's an elite level offensive talent from the blueline.
So what does he need to work on? Is it his play in his zone? I guess when you have the puck all the time, it's going to be hard to dramatically improve that side of his game. I note that he's not the biggest guy in the world at 6', 185, so I'm guessing he also has to get stronger.
But I'm having trouble remembering a single kid the Canucks have drafted who went back and lit it up in his draft-plus-one year like this kid.
ChilliBilly
Registered User
well I just made the mistake of reading the last 2 pages of this thread. Please mods, take these tiresome unrelated chats off to some other thread. ....sigh ....
Since we're posting absolutely unrelated stuff here
I like bacon
I like bacon
Yes.
As long as it isnt the amercian kind where its way too greasy and fat.
GranvilleIsland
Registered User
I wouldn't have guessed that about you.
Hodgson went and won CHL player of the year after the Canucks drafted him.
Let people be excited. I draw the line at projected lineups though
Baby Pettersson
Moderator
Too be fair he was a very good player at the time. He's a perfect example of ruined development. At least in my opinion.
If you haven't tried it already, if you cook stringy bacon on a cooling rack in the oven (with a tray under it) you can render out much more of the fat and grease. It will never be as lean as back bacon, but it is the best tasting and healthiest way to cook stringy bacon, in my humble opinion. If you are adventurous, fire it under the broiler for some extra colour and texture.
