How will Dahlin rank offensively among D this season?

[jetsforever]

This thread is a great read

 

[Isaac Nootin]

This thread is a great read

Much like many of the pre season/summer Buffalo threads.

This is the year!

 

[GOALOFSSON]

You can tell this poll's pretty optimistic, currently his pace is barely top 100 and the lowest option is top 20.

As of this post, Dahlin is the 70th ranked D (minimum of 14 games played) in the NHL based on PPG

The choices cap out at 20 and he's currently 62nd.

What a remarkably biased poll.

46th and climbing. Would probably still break the top 15/20 if this was a full season even with the setback. No Krueger from the start and it would have been a given.

This thread is aging really well. Especially the posts about Dahlin being better than Makar. Dahlin is by far the worst out of the four as of today, in all areas. Still got his potential though, however he might not live up to it unless he learns how to skate again.

Nothing indicates Dahlin will have a better career than Makar. Only thing that can hold back Makar is injuries.

I agree that the comments attempting to bring Dahlin down or take an easy jab are aging pretty well, especially with how he has played lately.

As for nothing indicating that Dahlin will have a better career than Makar, I don't think there is anything indicating that he won't. I'd rather have Dahlin still.

 

[Buck Naked]

46th and climbing. Would probably still break the top 15/20 if this was a full season even with the setback. No Krueger from the start and it would have been a given.

I agree that the comments attempting to bring Dahlin down or take an easy jab are aging pretty well, especially with how he has played lately.

As for nothing indicating that Dahlin will have a better career than Makar, I don't think there is anything indicating that he won't. I'd rather have Dahlin still.

This thread got more twists and turns than The Departed (or Infernal Affairs for that matter.)

 

[GOALOFSSON]

Might be time to admit the Sabres ruined another potential talent.

Ill go with he doesnt figure it out until he leaves Buffalo. We'll see Norris caliber seasons once he leaves. Ive been spot on with everything else Buffalo in the past couple years. Might as well book this one too.

You probably saved the guy above this from having the hottest takes in the thread.

Might be time to admit you were wrong about the Sabres and especially Dahlin.

You aren't spot on about everything regarding the team and Dahlin already proved you wrong on this one before the season even ended.

To me it seems like karma for poll options.

No, no karma. Only Krueger.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

Dahlin is a year and a half younger than Makar. You can't always compare young players who are different ages, and if you are able to, it likely means it's not a close debate when you are talking about one younger player thats a year and a half younger than another. At each age Dahlin's been better than Makar.

Makar was drafted a year before Dahlin, but Rasmus has 3 more years of professional hockey under his belt.

It’s not like we’re talking about a 25 year old and a 20 year old here. Makar doesn’t exactly have a lot of experience playing against men.

To say that it’s Dahlin and it’s not close going forward, makes absolutely no sense, considering what the two players have done since entering the league.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Makar was drafted a year before Dahlin, but Rasmus has 3 more years of professional hockey under his belt.

It’s not like we’re talking about a 25 year old and a 20 year old here. Makar doesn’t exactly have a lot of experience playing against men.

To say that it’s Dahlin and it’s not close going forward, makes absolutely no sense, considering what the two players have done since entering the league.

Having three extra years of pro hockey isn't something to use as an excuse, it's an advantage Dahlin has. It will help him have a better career over players who didn't have that advantage.

Makar is about 17 and a half months older than Dahlin. 17 and a half months ago, it was early December of 2019. He wasn't even 30 games into his NHL career. When Dahlin is the same age that Makar is right now, it'll be the start of the 2022-23 season.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

Having three extra years of pro hockey isn't something to use as an excuse, it's an advantage Dahlin has. It will help him have a better career over players who didn't have that advantage.

Makar is about 17 and a half months older than Dahlin. 17 and a half months ago, it was early December of 2019. He wasn't even 30 games into his NHL career. When Dahlin is the same age that Makar is right now, it'll be the start of the 2022-23 season.

Yes, exactly. It’s an advantage for a player to have more experience playing against men and should lead to better performance early in their career.

One player is 21 and one is 22 and the one that’s 21 has an extra year of NHL experience under his belt.

Dahlin’s still got plenty of potential and will absolutely get better, but it’s not like Makar is a grey beard with his 88 regular season games.

Jack Hughes was drafted 1st overall a year after Dahlin, Svechnikov, and Tkachuk. Is he guaranteed to be better than those players?

 

[GOALOFSSON]

Wasn't Krueger a coach when you made this poll? How did you not take that into consideration
Now you expect Tom Granato to be much better. I remember honeymoon with Krueger too.
I like Sabres so hoepfully next season wont be same story again. But you have a lot of faith in team last in NHL based on few game.
Guaranteed best D in the league, posibbly next year - good luck with that.

He was the coach last year and there were complaints about his usage then too. His 19yo season with a 14th ranked ppg among D could and should have been better, same with this season. Didn't think it would be this bad but it was and it's over now.

There is no expecting with Granato, there is a night and day difference between now and when Krueger was the coach. Krueger was just that bad. As for Dahlin you need just watch him play now.

Sure we're last but we might not even stay there despite going on an 18 game winless streak. Even ignoring the Krueger effect we missed Ullmark for some time and Eichel only got to play like 21 games while injured. We'll take another free high pick to add to our young talented core. We aren't close to a last placed team when healthy.

Don't need luck with Dahlin, he is still very much trending towards best defenseman in the league status.

 

[Isaac Nootin]

What's the guess on Dahlin's contract this offseason?

Does he bridge? Or does Buffalo try to lock him in long term now?

 

[GOALOFSSON]

What's the guess on Dahlin's contract this offseason?

Does he bridge? Or does Buffalo try to lock him in long term now?

There is a chance that the one positive to come from Krueger is getting us a steal of a contract for Dahlin.

I hope we go long term.

 

[Buck Naked]

There is a chance that the one positive to come from Krueger is getting us a steal of a contract for Dahlin.

I hope we go long term.

What's the contract you're hoping for that would be long term and a steal cap wise? 8x8?

 

[Holymakinaw]

Can't see him outside of the top 10.

I really can.

 

[GOALOFSSON]

What's the contract you're hoping for that would be long term and a steal cap wise? 8x8?

I wouldn't hate an Eichel deal since his deal is pretty good value and Dahlin will be a similarly great player, but I can't see that after the Kruegening. Anything less than that is a bonus. 8x8 would be a beaut, one of the best contracts in the league in short order.

I really can.

Sure with Kruger and no Eichel. I'll say the same thing for next season.

 

[TruePowerSlave]

Dahlin is a year and a half younger than Makar. You can't always compare young players who are different ages, and if you are able to, it likely means it's not a close debate when you are talking about one younger player thats a year and a half younger than another. At each age Dahlin's been better than Makar.

Makar was significantly better in his D+3 year, the same season Dahlin is having right now. The age argument between these two is pointless.

 

[GOALOFSSON]

Makar was significantly better in his D+3 year, the same season Dahlin is having right now. The age argument between these two is pointless.

The only thing here that is pointless is trying to use this season (mainly while Krueger was in charge) as any kind of measure for Dahlin’s future success.

 

[TruePowerSlave]

The only thing here that is pointless is trying to use this season (mainly while Krueger was in charge) as any kind of measure for Dahlin’s future success.

The post stated that at each age Dahlin has been better than Makar, definitely not the case in their D+3 seasons.

Makar was on pace for a 70 point regular season + was a dominating two way PPG Dman in the playoffs in his D+3 year. Dahlin has not come close to that level in his D+3 season.

 

[zenthusiast]

You’ll find that with 1 ppg, Dahlin is tied for 22nd amongst defensemen. A little disappointing but thems the breaks

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Dahlin’s still got plenty of potential and will absolutely get better, but it’s not like Makar is a grey beard with his 88 regular season games.

Jack Hughes was drafted 1st overall a year after Dahlin, Svechnikov, and Tkachuk. Is he guaranteed to be better than those players?

I agree. I didn't argue otherwise.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Makar was significantly better in his D+3 year, the same season Dahlin is having right now. The age argument between these two is pointless.

No, it's not pointless. There's a reason most don't compare early birthdays to late birthdays. If you are going to compare them, you have to do it very precisely, and not by a full draft season.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

I agree. I didn't argue otherwise.

I’m having a hard time getting a read on what you’re trying to say.

But, basically you believe that Dahlin will have the better career and there’s no point in comparing the two players because Makar was drafted a year earlier. Is that right?

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I’m having a hard time getting a read on what you’re trying to say.

But, basically you believe that Dahlin will have the better career and there’s no point in comparing the two players because Makar was drafted a year earlier. Is that right?

No, thats not right.

This idea that Makar projects to have a better career is faulty. Even despite Dahlin having some troubles the past few seasons, which I put almost entirely on poor coaching, at each age he's been better than Makar. He's been better than all these young defensemen at each age, so before anyone tries to say Dahlin won't have a better career they need to keep in mind what an appropriate comparison would entail. If its of Makar to Dahlin, it doesn't entail comparing Makar's current season to Dahlin's current season. It entails comparing Dahlin currently to where Makar was 17 and a half months ago or comparing Makar to where Dahlin will be in 17 and a half months.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

No, thats not right.

This idea that Makar projects to have a better career is faulty. Even despite Dahlin having some troubles the past few seasons, which I put almost entirely on poor coaching, at each age he's been better than Makar. He's been better than all these young defensemen at each age, so before anyone tries to say Dahlin won't have a better career they need to keep in mind what an appropriate comparison would entail. If its of Makar to Dahlin, it doesn't entail comparing Makar's current season to Dahlin's current season. It entails comparing Dahlin currently to where Makar was 17 and a half months ago or comparing Makar to where Dahlin will be in 17 and a half months.

Wasn’t Makar’s D+3 season much better than what Dahlin is doing in his D+3 season though?

Dahlin was definitely better than Makar at 17, 18, and 19, but not 20 and into 21.

It’s kinda weird to just do comparisons strictly age-by-age though, because it depends on development being linear. Players can make big jumps, or take big steps back.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Wasn’t Makar’s D+3 season much better than what Dahlin is doing in his D+3 season though?

Dahlin was definitely better than Makar at 17, 18, and 19, but not 20 and into 21.

I already explained this, so you are right that you don't seem to be following. I'm going to say it once more, and then I guess we can drop this discussion because it's pointless to keep making the same point.

If you are going to compare a late birthday with an early birthday, you have to be more precise. Compare the number of months apart in age as opposed to how many seasons removed from the draft. Thats why I referenced Makar's play in December of 2019 or Dahlin at the start of the 2022-23 season. Thats the equivalent of Dahlin's current age to Makar at that age or Makar's current age to Dahlin at that age.

It’s kinda weird to just do comparisons strictly age-by-age though, because it depends on development being linear. Players can make big jumps, or take big steps back.

Then why even have these discussions? If your attitude is that anything can happen, what's the point of this debate? We are debating based on what we know and what is a normal development for players. It's true that development isn't always linear, but we are using the information we currently have available about each player's development to make the most realistic projection. Yes, I agree that anything can happen. That doesn't really inform this discussion that much though.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

I already explained this, so you are right that you don't seem to be following. I'm going to say it once more, and then I guess we can drop this discussion because it's pointless to keep making the same point.

If you are going to compare a late birthday with an early birthday, you have to be more precise. Compare the number of months apart in age as opposed to how many seasons removed from the draft. Thats why I referenced Makar's play in December of 2019 or Dahlin at the start of the 2022-23 season. Thats the equivalent of Dahlin's current age to Makar at that age or Makar's current age to Dahlin at that age.



Then why even have these discussions? If your attitude is that anything can happen, what's the point of this debate? We are debating based on what we know and what is a normal development for players. It's true that development isn't always linear, but we are using the information we currently have available about each player's development to make the most realistic projection. Yes, I agree that anything can happen. That doesn't really inform this discussion that much though.

If you don’t want someone to challenge you on it then stop calling him the standard for young defenceman in the NHL.

There are plenty of young D that are more accomplished in the league right now. One of them plays for your team.

Makar has put up 81 points in his first 88 regular season games and is a +31.

Heiskanen put up 26 points in 27 playoff games last year and led his team to a cup final.

Heck, Quinn Hughes is from the same draft class as Dahlin and has been better.

Dahlin has great potential and could easily win a Norris some day, but he’s absolutely not the standard for young defenceman.