Player Discussion How overpaid is Tavares

[LeafGrief]

This Tavares magic amulet business is so delightfully off the wall and silly, it just has to be real. The product description that @HamiltonNHL posted is so full of buzzwords, so completely devoid of any actual science, that it's actually rather delightful. I had to google a Fourier transformation and that helped the buzzwords form at least a coherent idea of what the amulet "does", but the simplest version of the science is that when it comes to human interaction with radio frequencies, there are two types of electromagnetic (EM) radiation: ionizing and non-ionizing. Ionizing radiation is something that interacts with the molecules in your body (x-rays, nuclear radiation etc), while non-ionizing is the stuff that doesn't. Generally, ionizing begins at ultraviolet and higher frequencies, while non ionizing is visible light and below (which includes radio waves/wifi). Visible light doesn't give you cancer, wifi isn't going to either.

Now, I am far from a radio engineer, and I cannot state with utter certainty that wifi has no mind-control capabilities, but in my affection for the fringe, I agree that "they" are trying to control all of our minds, but they do it by copious amounts of propaganda and lies in the media we consume through our smart phones all day. So in a sense it is the wifi after all, but not in the way that a $300 talisman would protect you from.

And do I give a single shit about whether Tavares believes this stuff or not? HECK NO, he can shill for magic beans and Scientology for all I care.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

he can shill for magic beans and Scientology for all I care.

I would actually draw the line there.

 

[hamzarocks]

Nonsense. Plenty of teams have had two #1 C's making #1 C money. Penguins won 3 cups with that model

Pens had the best and 3rd best player in the league from 2006-2017ish making that money, with both being elite playoff producers

Matthews is a bad/underwhelming playoff producer

Tavares is a horrific playoff producer, producing at a strong 3C level in the playoffs for the leafs

Tavares was never worth 11M even his 47G season. That was the 2nd highest caphit I think in 2018/2019 after Mcdavid. He came outside the top 10 in all awards that year I think

We were expecting Tavares to be a hart level player the first 2 seasons of the deal, then an elite 1C the next 2 years followed by 3 years of being a low end 1C

Tavares was an elite 1C once, low end 1C 4 times, and an average 2C last year

He has been a disaster as a maple leaf

 

[thewave]

I think this is the 9million dollar question.

 

[Metroid]

I'm more impressed that the Tavares voodoo crystals post on the mains got shut down 3 pages in. Usually it goes to 10+ pages before being shut down.
Must be the healing crystal power. I'm a believer!!?

 

[LeafGrief]

I would actually draw the line there.

Meh.

I think Scientology is a dangerous cult at its highest levels, but down in the day-to-day it's mostly just people who have fallen for a scam. If JT was hanging around with David Miscavige and redirecting funds from his charity to a Dianetics centre, sure I'd be getting out the markers to draw lines. But people who believe in Dianetics aren't really that different from people who've fallen for Multi-Level Marketing schemes. They're not necessarily bad people who deserve shunning for their association with something we think is dumb.

At the end of the day, JT is an athlete and as long as he's within the bounds of the law and basic morality (I acknowledge this is hotly debatable in 2024), I do not care what he does in his personal life.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

If JT was hanging around with David Miscavige and redirecting funds from his charity to a Dianetics centre, sure I'd be getting out the markers to draw lines.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Nonsense. Plenty of teams have had two #1 C's making #1 C money. Penguins won 3 cups with that model

The first of those Cups Gino was making under $1M.

How many of those "plenty of teams" have their 2C as the highest paid player in the league?

 

[HamiltonNHL]

How many of those "plenty of teams" have their 2C as the highest paid player in the league?

JT's management team needs to be fired.

Taxes, now amulets.

Makes him look dumb as rocks.

 

[HockeyVirus]

Pens had the best and 3rd best player in the league from 2006-2017ish making that money, with both being elite playoff producers

Matthews is a bad/underwhelming playoff producer

Tavares is a horrific playoff producer, producing at a strong 3C level in the playoffs for the leafs

Tavares was never worth 11M even his 47G season. That was the 2nd highest caphit I think in 2018/2019 after Mcdavid. He came outside the top 10 in all awards that year I think

We were expecting Tavares to be a hart level player the first 2 seasons of the deal, then an elite 1C the next 2 years followed by 3 years of being a low end 1C

Tavares was an elite 1C once, low end 1C 4 times, and an average 2C last year

He has been a disaster as a maple leaf

Uh no we weren't lmao. I am done with this conversation, people are as nuts with JT as with Marner hard to have any conversation.

 

[hamzarocks]

Uh no we weren't lmao. I am done with this conversation, people are as nuts with JT as with Marner hard to have any conversation.

This is revisionist history on your part loool

Tavares was talked as a top ~15ish player when signed and everyone here expected him to ascend a tier playing with the three young core guys, giving him elite offensive talent for the first time in his career.

Go read how tavares was viewed league wide in 2018 and the UFA signing thread for July 1 2018 where we got him

There was talks of him getting back to his 2013-2015 level or close enough (top 5-8 player in the league)

People have accepted how pitiful the core and JT have performed that there was once a time where these guys had high expectations and believe they could be a tampa bay/pens/hawks level contender with guys being routinely involved for major individual awards(top 7 or 8 finishes at worst) while being the clear cut division winner and president trophy level team

The leafs didnt sign an 84 pt 1C to 11M on a 105 pt team for him to be a ~80 pt player moving forward.

Doesnt matter know, tavares is a known failure know with his legacy hurt and him being not mentioned in any all time great player discussions. He ruined his own legacy and the leafs by failing to deliver here

 

[Aashir Mallik]

Nonsense. Plenty of teams have had two #1 C's making #1 C money. Penguins won 3 cups with that model

It would've been nice if those two 1C's gave us 1'C type production

Crosby and Malkin RS + Playoffs for those three cup wins:
Points
103 + 113 | 31 + 36
85 + 58 | 19 + 18
89 + 72 | 27 + 28
----------------------
520 | 159

PPG Placement
5th + 2nd | T-1ST + 4th
4th + 5th | 35th + 36th
2nd + 4th | 4th + T-5th
--------------------------


Matthews and Tavares 3 most productive years (individually) as leafs
Points
107 + 88 | 4 +5
106 + 80 | 9 + 8
66 + 76 | 5 + 8
------------------
532 | 39

PPG Placement
6th + T-22nd | T-49th + T-51st
3rd + T-38th | 8th + 68th
T-6th + T-36th | T-23rd + T-22nd

Even cherry picking both indiviudal best years from our players and they still come up short. Regular season wise Matthews belongs with those two, but playoffs are another beast. Tavares doesn't belong with them. I'm too lazy to do the likes of Kopitar + Carter, Sakic + Forsberg, Yzermann + Federov but I bet they come out very similarly.

 

[HockeyVirus]

This is revisionist history on your part loool

Tavares was talked as a top ~15ish player when signed and everyone here expected him to ascend a tier playing with the three young core guys, giving him elite offensive talent for the first time in his career.

Go read how tavares was viewed league wide in 2018 and the UFA signing thread for July 1 2018 where we got him

There was talks of him getting back to his 2013-2015 level or close enough (top 5-8 player in the league)

People have accepted how pitiful the core and JT have performed that there was once a time where these guys had high expectations and believe they could be a tampa bay/pens/hawks level contender with guys being routinely involved for major individual awards(top 7 or 8 finishes at worst) while being the clear cut division winner and president trophy level team

The leafs didnt sign an 84 pt 1C to 11M on a 105 pt team for him to be a ~80 pt player moving forward.

Doesnt matter know, tavares is a known failure know with his legacy hurt and him being not mentioned in any all time great player discussions. He ruined his own legacy and the leafs by failing to deliver here

I think you are out of touch with expectations because you have been watching Matthews too much. 47 goals is insanity in the NHL and quite rare.

Now if you want to say signing JT was a mistake sure. But painting it as we didn't get what we expected is nonsense.

 

[hamzarocks]

I think you are out of touch with expectations because you have been watching Matthews too much. 47 goals is insanity in the NHL and quite rare.

Now if you want to say signing JT was a mistake sure. But painting it as we didn't get what we expected is nonsense.

Did you expect only 88 pts in his first year of his deal? Only 41 assists?

Who cares about goals on individual basis? Are out centres not able to pass a puck and create chances for their wings? Our total goals were down as Tavares showed he was an average playmaker at best

Tavares at 47G + 41A was 40 Points back of Kucherov. There was no planet where we expected Tavares playing on same team as 34, 88 (though he sucled ass this year) and 16 would Tavares get outscored from league leader by 40 points.

Tavares was only 24 pts behind the league leader in 2018 and only ~20 pts (pace wise) behind Kucherovs 2018 season

Tavares scoring more goals at the cost of his estimated assists and points was not a good factor for his signing.

That was the only year he was worth above 9M as a player on his deal.

Tavares finishes:

2019 --> 16th in pts, 22nd in ppg
2020 --> 38 in pts, 30th in ppg
2021 --> 27th in pts, 35th in ppg
2022 --> 44th in pts, 51st in ppg
2023 --> 29th in pts, 38th in ppg
2024 --> 75th in pts, 86th in ppg

Which of those seasons regular season wise was tavares ever close to being an elite player or a player you thought delivered on expectations at the time of signing?

This doesnt include playoffs where he has 24 pts in 37 playoff games gopd for ~53 pts per 82 or average 2C producti9n at best

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Which of those seasons regular season wise was tavares ever close to being an elite player or a player you thought delivered on expectations at the time of signing?

None.

Dubas was not qualified to run an NHL franchise.