Player Discussion How overpaid is Tavares

How overpaid is John Tavares at 11M

  • 40%

    Votes: 50 17.3%
  • 50%

    Votes: 60 20.8%
  • 60%

    Votes: 52 18.0%
  • 70%

    Votes: 27 9.3%
  • Less than 40%

    Votes: 51 17.6%
  • More than 70%

    Votes: 49 17.0%

  • Total voters
    289

mjd1001

Registered User
May 24, 2022
435
394
2 series wins in the course of his entire career is a pretty crazy stat for a guy who's supposedly heading to the HOF.
If my numbers are correct:

Matthews: 1 series win, 8 series losses (11.1% series winning percentage, scores at a 32 goal-per-82 game rate in the playoffs)

Tavares: 2 series wins, 9 series losses. (18.2% series winning percentage, scores at a 30.5 goal-per-82 game rate in the playoffs).

So yeah...for now (and for the next couple years) Tavares with a slight edge.
 

HamiltonNHL

Resigning Marner == Running it back
Jan 4, 2012
22,710
13,884
JT cannot be signed if MLSE signs Marner.

And Marner needs to be decided first.

Management needs to be canned if they announce a JT deal before Marner is decided.
 

HockeyVirus

Woll stan.
Nov 15, 2020
19,559
29,959
Then his role better reflect that cap

No PP1, no playing with core 4. He’s strictly 3/4C and PP2

My worries are that his “reputation” will keep him up in the top 6 and pp1.
Not to mention his playoff performances make me just wanna wipe him from my memory and the team. Please don’t use one series winner to try and paint him a core piece in the playoffs who is a difference maker. I just wanna move on tbh, I don’t find much of an appeal of Tavares on the team at any cost

Sounds more like you are projecting your distain for the core on Tavares.
 

Aashir Mallik

Backcheck, Forecheck, Paycheque
Apr 19, 2019
12,611
13,416
Sounds more like you are projecting your distain for the core on Tavares.
Could partly be that, but most of it is for him specifically.

I really haven’t liked the way he has produced from years 2-6, and probably 7 of his contract. PPG is not good enough when he gets to play with nylander/marner for most of his career here. Not to mention how scoring sky rocketed but his production stagnated even though his same linemates had higher and higher production levels

Secondly, he’s never really dominated a playoff series and left his mark on it like the other three. Marner had 2017 Boston, Matthews had 2022 tampa, and nylander had 2021 Montreal. Tavares never showed us a level of player like the other three had, where they were our best player on the ice. He produced at around a 50 point player despite playing with ~70 point players his entire time, so yet again heavily underproduced the others.

Then there’s the actual games themselves, I’ve watched this guy miss so many chances in the playoffs it’s incredible, he had that wide open net in game 5 against Columbus. He had like 4 chances in game 2 of the florida series alone from nylander and he missed all of them, and there are many more im not remembering. Secondly, he kills the pp, especially on the entry. Last series every time the puck went to him it was a guaranteed turnover, he would fumble it, lose it or just give it back to the bruins.

Lastly, I don’t actually think he is suited for a bottom six role here. He doesn’t PK, he won’t get optimal usage, and he’s gonna be too slow to create a checking line. So only thing we can try to create is a slow heavy grinding line, but that’s going to get abused by faster teams and he doesn’t have the defensive IQ to make the smart Palau’s to combat those. Maybe he can work as a 3W who takes faceoffs but hands the center responsibility over to someone faster and smarter.
 
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HockeyVirus

Woll stan.
Nov 15, 2020
19,559
29,959
Could partly be that, but most of it is for him specifically.

I really haven’t liked the way he has produced from years 2-6, and probably 7 of his contract. PPG is not good enough when he gets to play with nylander/marner for most of his career here. Not to mention how scoring sky rocketed but his production stagnated even though his same linemates had higher and higher production levels

You think because Tavares is paid the same as the big guys he should score like them. Doesn't work that way, he was a UFA he got a premium as all of those guys do. He was overpaid from day 1. He still was a #1 center for 6 of those years on half of the teams in the league.

His production stagnated because he got older. That is how UFA deals sadly go most of the time. Nylander will be a worse player in year 5,6,7 than he is today by probability.

Secondly, he’s never really dominated a playoff series and left his mark on it like the other three. Marner had 2017 Boston, Matthews had 2022 tampa, and nylander had 2021 Montreal. Tavares never showed us a level of player like the other three had, where they were our best player on the ice. He produced at around a 50 point player despite playing with ~70 point players his entire time, so yet again heavily underproduced the others.

I can't agree with this. Tavares had a hat trick in that same 2022 Tampa series. He was PPG and scored the series clinching goal AND scored the tying goal the year before that was taken back by that BS Holl penalty. Like I said above, I think you just misunderstand how good Tavares is and how he is viewed around the league because you compare him to 3 of the leagues arguably top 15 skaters.

Then there’s the actual games themselves, I’ve watched this guy miss so many chances in the playoffs it’s incredible, he had that wide open net in game 5 against Columbus. He had like 4 chances in game 2 of the florida series alone from nylander and he missed all of them, and there are many more im not remembering. Secondly, he kills the pp, especially on the entry. Last series every time the puck went to him it was a guaranteed turnover, he would fumble it, lose it or just give it back to the bruins.

I get some of these frustrations. Marner has missed those wide open chances too though (last year wide open anyone?), hell all of our core has or we would have had more playoff success by now. He is slow, and doesn't seem to gel with our fast skilled players so kills a lot of plays.

I think though he is still very elite, just being used wrong. So if the whole issue is Tavares should be on PP2 with guys who grind down low and bang pucks in yeah he probably excels there. He should be on our third line providing real depth scoring. I think he knows that. He's our #2 C guy due to need

Lastly, I don’t actually think he is suited for a bottom six role here. He doesn’t PK, he won’t get optimal usage, and he’s gonna be too slow to create a checking line. So only thing we can try to create is a slow heavy grinding line, but that’s going to get abused by faster teams and he doesn’t have the defensive IQ to make the smart Palau’s to combat those. Maybe he can work as a 3W who takes faceoffs but hands the center responsibility over to someone faster and smarter.

You lost me here. Doesn't have the defensive IQ? He's been our matchup center most of his contract until recently when Matthews was the clear defensive stalwart he is now. I think you are also massively overstating how slow he is. There are players who are slow and manage to be productive until their late 30's by changing their style of play.

Why can't JT learn to PK? Why can't he adapt to a new role. Patches says often he knows he has a different role here than he did in other places and is embracing it. Tavares needs to understand that as part of signing here his role is changing. With how he handled the captaincy and everything else, I see no issues there.

And we also haven't seen him on the wing either BTW for much time. Would solve a lot of speed issues making him the F3 who bangs in rebounds
 

ITM

Out on the front line, don't worry I'll be fine...
Jan 26, 2012
4,801
2,744
I think the topic is, by time and board participation, overpaid.

This is now an exercise in bringing the word moot to unexplored regions of deeper “mootnessness”.
 

Larcos_Unal

Excuses are for losers
Jul 6, 2007
5,939
7,147
Toronto
If my numbers are correct:

Matthews: 1 series win, 8 series losses (11.1% series winning percentage, scores at a 32 goal-per-82 game rate in the playoffs)

Tavares: 2 series wins, 9 series losses. (18.2% series winning percentage, scores at a 30.5 goal-per-82 game rate in the playoffs).

So yeah...for now (and for the next couple years) Tavares with a slight edge.
We sure know how to pick those leaders 😉
 

nuck

Schrodingers Cat
Aug 18, 2005
11,619
2,661
How is this still a topic in the last year of his deal? Dubas sucks and also the Rask trade was bad. Time to move on.
 

HamiltonNHL

Resigning Marner == Running it back
Jan 4, 2012
22,710
13,884
magical amulets???
1729038245041.png


absolute nonsense.

zero surprise.

Johnny Mumbles is the perfect spokesperson for this nonsense.
 

Metroid

Слава Україні!!
Sep 6, 2006
5,546
5,980
Hellmouth
Saw this lol
Maybe he takes leauge min now that he has healing crystals.
Anyone know the validity of this?
Seems odd it's taken this long to come out 😂

1000023417.png
 

notDatsyuk

Registered User
Jul 20, 2018
11,559
9,604
You think because Tavares is paid the same as the big guys he should score like them. Doesn't work that way, he was a UFA he got a premium as all of those guys do. He was overpaid from day 1. He still was a #1 center for 6 of those years on half of the teams in the league.
I think the bolded is a bit optimistic, but even if he was playing as a 1C for even 4 or 5 years he wouldn't have been overpaid. The problem is that he was signed to be a 2C, and that amount for a 2C was an overpayment.

He's overpaid for the situation, but that's not his fault.
 
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thewave

Registered User
Jun 17, 2011
42,146
12,571
Tavares obviously isn’t paid enough as he’s now endorsing magical amulets???


I have no problems with the amulets. Clearly they follow the science and work. The part he doesn't mention is that you also need to be married to a Witch. Only with this powerful combination can you become the Tom Brady of hockey.

Get your magic amulets today. Witches not included. Results may vary.
 
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Metroid

Слава Україні!!
Sep 6, 2006
5,546
5,980
Hellmouth
I have no problems with the amulets. Clearly they follow the science and work. The part he doesn't mention is that you also need to be married to a Witch. Only with this powerful combination can you become the Tom Brady of hockey.

Get your magic amulets today. Witches not included. Results may vary.
If it gets us a cup, I'll pray to an empty plastic cup as my lord and saviour!!
 
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HockeyVirus

Woll stan.
Nov 15, 2020
19,559
29,959
I think the bolded is a bit optimistic, but even if he was playing as a 1C for even 4 or 5 years he wouldn't have been overpaid. The problem is that he was signed to be a 2C, and that amount for a 2C was an overpayment.

He's overpaid for the situation, but that's not his fault.

Nonsense. Plenty of teams have had two #1 C's making #1 C money. Penguins won 3 cups with that model
 
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