How much more valuable are goals compared to assists?

[RavenGuard]

That may be true for the first assist, but there are 2 assists awarded per goal. The 2nd assist is the one that is least valuable in my opinion.

Why are two assists awarded in hockey? Why not 1? Why not 3? Most of all, it never made sense to me that we group them as points. Goals should just be goals, assists should just be assists like in soccer.

Depends.

Say the dman makes a sick 45 foot pass, tape to tape and hits the forward at full speed, that forward then makes a 6 foot pass to player c for an easy tap in.

In that situation the 2nd assist is the more valuable one IMO

 

[mapleleafs34]

I would love to see players stats if only the first assist was counted as an assist.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

I would love to see players stats if only the first assist was counted as an assist.

Not much changes in 2022, at least at the top of the race.

McDavid is 1st either way. Stamkos and Tkachuk remain in 7th and 8th.

Gaudreau, Draisaitl, Matthews and Kaprizov each move up one spot. Huberdeau drops three spots. The top eight are identical, and only one of them moves more than one spot.

Looking at the top 50, the three biggest drops (the only ones whose rank drops 15+ spots) are all defensemen - Jose, Makar and Hedman. This should surprise nobody, as secondary assists disproportionately go to defensemen.

Of the top 25 players in points, 18 of them are in the top 25 if you drop the secondary assists (three of the exceptions are the defensemen I just named). Four other players drop out of the top 25 - one falls to 26th place and two are tied for 27th place. The only forward who looks much worse without secondary assists is, surprisingly, Nazem Kadri, who falls from T-19th to 30th.

In general, I think people make a much bigger deal about secondary assists than they should. It does impact the scoring race, but I think a lot of people expect it to have a much larger impact than it really does (especially since, like I said, it's defensemen who get a much greater share of secondary assists).

 

[Hockey4Lyfe]

You are overrating the precision of how points are awarded:

Some NHL Stars Get More Assists At Home Than They Deserve

Pittsburgh Penguins center Sidney Crosby is one of the most talented players in the National Hockey League. But sometimes, he also gets lucky. This clip comes f…

fivethirtyeight.com

And there aren’t instances of goals glancing off of individuals and going into the net? Thus getting credited for a goal?

Or am I not allowed to argue the entire picture with you because that’s how all of your points arise on this board?

 

[Hockey4Lyfe]

The player with the most points is the most important player.

End the discussion close the thread.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Historically the best players win the most Art Ross trophies. Maybe Ovechkin is an exception as he’s the best goal scorer ever.
So I think the point system used paints a pretty accurate picture. As a poster above me said, eliminating secondary assists doesn’t really impact scoring much amongst the forwards.

 

[Puckclektr]

Second assists devalue assists.

Matthews assist tonight on Buntings goal in game 2 says hi

 

[zenthusiast]

It seems reasonable to have a value spectrum from goal to primary assist to secondary assist. Yes, each goal is a beautiful snowflake but on average the contribution progresses as such

 

[JustAHabFan]

1G = 2A.

 

[wetcoast]

I looked into this a few years ago and wrote an article: Examining the value of the secondary assist

The general findings were primary assists have nearly the same year-over-year correlation as goals, and secondary assists have about two-thirds of the predictive value. (Obviously that's an average - on some plays, secondary assists are crucial, while on other plays, they've virtually meaningless).

So I think it's fair to discount the value of secondary assists. But I've seen people (in other threads) state that secondary assists are worth half a point, or even less, and I've never seen a rational basis for that.

More people should read this thread with a critical eye and learn something instead of trying to support their own "theories".

 

[Bruce Granville]

While at it, give everybody their own puck and don’t count any goals…

Sometimes the puck hits the butt and goes in, sometimes the 2nd assist is a 100 feet stretch pass.
So, leave it as it is.

But to answer the real question behind this thread: McDavid > Matthews

 

[authentic]

While at it, give everybody their own puck and don’t count any goals…

Sometimes the puck hits the butt and goes in, sometimes the 2nd assist is a 100 feet stretch pass.
So, leave it as it is.

But to answer the real question behind this thread: McDavid > Matthews

62 goals and 111 points in 75 games including playoffs this season. Not really sure if McDavid > Matthews anymore.

 

[FDBluth]

Goals, primary assists and secondary assists are available equally to all players. The players who make the most amount of plays that lead to goals will have the biggest sum of all three.

 

[Blowfish]

I think most on here would agree that scoring goals is more difficult than putting up assist (and thus more valuable) but how much more valuable would a goal be compared to an assist?

I think I seen somewhere that on average for every goal there is 1.7 assist but I'm not sure how accurate that was?

Yes the Leafs and Matthews are amazing.

 

[Phil Kessels Hot Dog]

For every secondary assist, there are 1.31 goals. Secondary assists are rarer and much more difficult to achieve.

 

[Panthaz89]

62 goals and 111 points in 75 games including playoffs this season. Not really sure if McDavid > Matthews anymore.

imagine if one of these guys could get 123 points in 80 games and also has 4 points in 2 playoff games...I'm sure the guy who just won his 4th art ross and probably lindsay/hart is better.

 

[Hockeyholic]

Adam Oates scored nearly 300 less goals than Dave Andreychuk.

Not one person could reasonably argue Andreychuk was a better player.

 

[authentic]

imagine if one of these guys could get 123 points in 80 games and also has 4 points in 2 playoff games...I'm sure the guy who just won his 4th art ross and probably lindsay/hart is better.

In 5 more games Matthews would have about 120 points and over 65 goals and he's better defensively. Yeah crazy to think that player is better.

Matthews has also scored more against better teams all season and that trend has continued so far in the playoffs.

 

[authentic]

Goals, primary assists and secondary assists are available equally to all players. The players who make the most amount of plays that lead to goals will have the biggest sum of all three.

A secondary assist requires 2 other players to be in on the play, an assist requires 1 and a goal requires none. A goal can happen without an assist but obviously an assist needs someone to finish so it's undoubtedly more rare and difficult on average. In the case of a player like McDavid a primary assist is more or less equal to a goal, but a secondary assist is clearly not but that's not to say it isn't the biggest part of the play sometimes.

 

[triggrman]

I think it's 3.1415926535/1.76456 more valuable.

 

[Midnight Judges]

For every secondary assist, there are 1.31 goals. Secondary assists are rarer and much more difficult to achieve.

How many goals for each major penalty? Better yet, how may goals for each suspension?

Anyway, yeah scarcity obviously doesn't necessarily equal value.

 

[DomBarr]

thanks for a legit response. I was thinking that the G = 1.5/ PA = 1/SA = 0.5 seemed kind of right but i wasn't sure. Your 2nd one (goals = 1.25 ect ect) seems like a more accurate reflection considering that every goal doesn't always have 3 points involved. I may try crunching some numbers this weekend and see if i can come to a more concrete number.

can we then say PP pts are worth 0.667 and Shorthanded pts worth 1.3 of the even strength pt...

just to be clear a lucky ass slap pass that careens off 5 players before going in is not worth more than a concise saucer pass across the crease allowing an easy tap in (Primary assist is most valuable) or that long stretch pass to the red line which creates a 2 on 1 which is then dished to the shooter who scores the easy tap in (secondary assist is most valuable).

 

[Fourier]

Hard to generalize. Elite passers like Gretzky probably added as much if not more value with an assist as did Lemieux. I’d put Crosby and McDavid as high value assist players too since they have a history of making their linemates a lot better.

This is exactly right. Gretzky's assists were on the whole not the same as those of a generic plug. Far more often than with the typical player the goal being scored was almost totally dependent the effort Gretzky made. Look no further than a guy like Dave Lumley or even Dave Semenko. Lumley did not score 32 goals in 1981-82 because of his sweet hands.

McDavid's assists are often core to the goal being scored. This is even true of many of his second assists.

Draisaitl is actually an interesting case in this debate. He is simultaneously both a sniper and an elite passer with the dominant attribute depending on the situation. Centering his own line 5vs5 he is most definitely a pass first player whose assists are often critical to a goal being scored. With McDavid at 5 vs 5 or on the pp he becomes a shooter.

 

[Peltz]

The player with the most points is the most important player.

End the discussion close the thread.

Goalies are the least important players?

 

[FDBluth]

A secondary assist requires 2 other players to be in on the play, an assist requires 1 and a goal requires none. A goal can happen without an assist but obviously an assist needs someone to finish so it's undoubtedly more rare and difficult on average. In the case of a player like McDavid a primary assist is more or less equal to a goal, but a secondary assist is clearly not but that's not to say it isn't the biggest part of the play sometimes.

Except playmakers with exceptional vision have a bigger impact on all kinds of goalscoring plays, including those where they are the player with the secondary assist.