How much more valuable are goals compared to assists?

[GrumpyKoala]

I think most on here would agree that scoring goals is more difficult than putting up assist (and thus more valuable) but how much more valuable would a goal be compared to an assist?

I think I seen somewhere that on average for every goal there is 1.7 assist but I'm not sure how accurate that was?

Yes and No, Scoring a goal is indeed more valuable but there many many instances where a guy deck 3 other, fool the goalie and someone end up with a tap in.

McDavid, Huberdeau immediately come to mind, they most of the time, do the heavy workload on a goal.

 

[nbwingsfan]

I never said that, you made that up yourself. It’s not an exact science or something that can be applied to each individual goal, more of an overall observation.

Based on what you want to see. To get an actual evaluation you’d have to watch every single goal scored by every player, then give a value to each pass/goal.

It’s not something that can be realistically analyzed

 

[PROGFAN66]

Goals of course is the most important stat whether it's goal for or goals against in hockey. However, there are things that happens that leads to goals that no one talks about or maybe not tracked as a stat.

How about a defensemen retrieving a puck from a rebound, the player who makes the initial outlet pass or the player who screens the goaltender and the player who wins the face off. There all examples on how someone can contribute to goals. The NHL does a bad job in tracking good decisions or plays that leads to goals IMO.

Then there is someone like Connor McDavid who literally can create scoring chances wherever he gets puck whether its from a pass, rebound or just retrieving the puck from anywhere on the ice rink.

 

[PaulD]

Knights score.......... here comes Hawks goal. Ha!

 

[PaulD]

Goals of course is the most important stat whether it's goal for or goals against in hockey. However, there are things that happens that leads to goals that no one talks about or maybe not tracked as a stat.

How about a defensemen retrieving a puck from a rebound, the player who makes the initial outlet pass or the player who screens the goaltender and from a direct face off win that contributes to goals. The NHL does a bad job in tracking good decisions or plays that leads to goals IMO.

Then there is someone like Connor McDavid who literally can create scoring chances wherever he gets puck whether its from a pass, rebound or just retrieving the puck from anywhere on the ice rink.

Also a gifted enough scorer that if he decides to increase his scoring by decreasing his play making, shooting more, go to the net more more, stand at the side of the net for entire powerplays blasting one timers. Or whatever adjustments he needed to make........if he decided to, Connor could go from 40 goal scorer to 60. Thus going from 80 assists to about 60.

I recall Gretz in his book telling us about the summer he told a couple team mates and his dad that he thought he could average 2 assists a game next season. But to do it he would score less goals. That very season he goes out and gets 163 assists! In 80 games. His goal total dropped to from 73 to 52 from the season before. Ha!

Connor could realign his stats like if he chose to. He's that good and that versatile.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

But, really, how many goals are unassisted?

For the overwhelming majority of hockey plays, the playmaker is just as instrumental is generating a goal as the scorer. Most of the time, that goal doesn't get scored if the playmaker doesn't create a favorable offensive opportunity.

That may be true for the first assist, but there are 2 assists awarded per goal. The 2nd assist is the one that is least valuable in my opinion.

Why are two assists awarded in hockey? Why not 1? Why not 3? Most of all, it never made sense to me that we group them as points. Goals should just be goals, assists should just be assists like in soccer.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

Based on what you want to see. To get an actual evaluation you’d have to watch every single goal scored by every player, then give a value to each pass/goal.

It’s not something that can be realistically analyzed

Which is why I presented it as my opinion. There is no way to analyze it objectively, it’s just an overall impression.

 

[im gangster]

Auston Matthews

 

[PROGFAN66]

Also a gifted enough scorer that if he decides to increase his scoring , decreasing by decreasing his play making, shooting more, go to the net more more, stand at the side of the net for entire powerplays blanketing one timers........if he decided to. Connor coul go from 40 goal scorer to 60. Thus going from 80 assists to about 60.

I recall Gretz in his book telling us about the summer he told a couple team mates and his dad that he thought he could average 2 assists a game next season. But to do it he would score less goals. That very season he goes out and gets 163 assists! In 80 games. His goal total dropped to from 73 to 52 from the season before. Ha!

Connor McDavid with the puck has best combination of puck carrying, passing and scoring ability in the sport. Its the reason why he is constantly leading the league in scoring.

 

[PaulD]

Connor McDavid with the puck has best combination of puck carrying, passing and scoring ability in the sport. Its the reason why he is constantly leading the league in scoring.

For sure. I was I no way implying he should try score more.........just saying he could if he chose to. He's that capable.

 

[PaulD]

That may be true for the first assist, but there are 2 assists awarded per goal. The 2nd assist is the one that is least valuable in my opinion.

Why are two assists awarded in hockey? Why not 1? Why not 3? Most of all, it never made sense to me that we group them as points. Goals should just be goals, assists should just be assists like in soccer.

It's been that way for 100 years. Who gives a shit what "never made sense to you"

Cheers

 

[AUAIOMRN]

"You can't have an assist without a goal"
Conversely, not every great setup results in a goal. A playmaker could make ten nice plays throughout a game and only get one assist to show for it.

 

[TheNumber4]

Lol leave it up to a Maple Leafer to lead the league in goals so a topic like this pops up....

When a Leaf player finally leads the league in assists several centuries from now... expect a thread about how assists rule the day

True. And the whole narrative of goals>assists only exists cause of Matthews. The NHL went a century+ realizing that assists could be as much if not more valuable than a goal, and vice versa and determined that 1 point = goal = assist. Every scoring play is different, you think all the tap ins Gretzky created for players to become known as the great one should now be retroactively changed all cause Leafs want an ego feeding narrative.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

It's been that way for 100 years. Who gives a shit what "never made sense to you"

Cheers

Yeah, well, feeling is mutual on that one.

 

[pi314]

There’s no possible way to figure out a proper value. None.

Every goal is different. Some goals happen where the player didn’t even know the scores because the puck hit off his stick accidentally, or went off his ass. Some secondary assists come from an incredible defensive play and effort and a tic tac toe where everyone was involved.

Sure I’m theory secondary assists in theory may hold less value, but you really have no idea unless you went through every single point a player had in a season.

Seems pretty dumb to devalue anything just based on “you can score without an assist”.

Exactly.

Some goals are entirely because of a pass.

It’s different from play to play.

Sometimes a goal is a second empty netter with 2 seconds to go.

You can’t apply sweeping generalizations to the stats.

The only people who want to reinvent the metrics have a vested interested in the goal scorer they cheer for.

 

[authentic]

True. And the whole narrative of goals>assists only exists cause of Matthews. The NHL went a century+ realizing that assists could be as much if not more valuable than a goal, and vice versa and determined that 1 point = goal = assist. Every scoring play is different, you think all the tap ins Gretzky created for players to become known as the great one should now be retroactively changed all cause Leafs want an ego feeding narrative.

Yeah you clearly weren’t around for the Crosby vs. Ovechkin days

 

[TheNumber4]

Yeah you clearly weren’t around for the Crosby vs. Ovechkin days

Yeh I remember Leafs fans advocating for Crosby and assists at the time.

 

[McFlash97]

Applying this metric to this year's scoring race.

1. McDavid - 44 G 48 A1 30 A2 = 112 points
2. Huberdeau - 30 G 53 A1 32 A2 = 104.33 points
3. Gaudreau - 39 G 52 A1 22 A2 = 105.66 points
4. Draisailt- 55 G 32 A1 22 A2 = 101.66 points
5. Matthews - 60 G 26 A1 20 A2 = 99.33 points

Lol well that solves that...

 

[Leafsfan74]

I think most on here would agree that scoring goals is more difficult than putting up assist (and thus more valuable) but how much more valuable would a goal be compared to an assist?

I think I seen somewhere that on average for every goal there is 1.7 assist but I'm not sure how accurate that was?

Of course it's a team game so you need both. Whichever decision leads to the goal (or prevents the other team scoring, another question for another topic) is the right play and is rcorded as such.

From a purely logical position "all offensive stats spawn from the goal". In corporate speak, the goal is the "parent" company while all all subsidiaries are assists. Without a goal scorer there is no assist. One requires the other.

However, the goal scorer doesn't always require the passer. A player can go end to end on his own. He can steal the puck and score (the ultimate "creation" of offense).

IMO the sport calculates a goal and an assist equally as points in acknowledgement of the fact it's a team sport and the objective requires both.

Of course the secondary assist skews the data, but it encourages players to make the right decision that leads to the objective.

Meh. In the end, he who lifts the Cup wins.

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

They aren't in my opinion. Maybe I'm biased because I was more of a playmaker than a goalscorer myself, but a goal is not inherently any more valuable than an assist. Whether or not you were the guy to start the play, or the one to put the puck in the net, the goal doesn't happen without either player.

 

[Quid Pro Clowe]

I just referenced this kind of thread in the Stamkos 60g/60a thread haha.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Second assists devalue assists.

This. Goals and Primary assists are absolutely equal, often times its the pass that sets up the play way more then the goal itself. Secondary assists are where you can start to differentiate value a little.


I personally still dont think its much however. Like if a goal is worth 1.0, primary assist is worth 1.0.... Then for me a secondary assist would probably be worth like 0.90.

 

[ijuka]

Goals and Primary assists are absolutely equal

This just isn't true. Hockey's one of the few sports that even bothers tracking assists. In football played with ball, no one cares about "assists". Only goals are tracked.

All in all, only goals are in the goal-scorer's hands. Assists aren't in the passer's hands, they're completely reliant on the goal-scorer. Tracking assists isn't very useful for assessing players, rather the scoring chances they generate should be tracked - the amount of these that become goals is out of the passer's hands. But if we really want to give value to an assist, something like 0.5 * goal for primary and 0.25 * goal for secondary assists seems approximately right.

When I was little and just got started with watching hockey I always wondered why they track assists.

 

[TheNumber4]

Yes and No, Scoring a goal is indeed more valuable but there many many instances where a guy deck 3 other, fool the goalie and someone end up with a tap in.

McDavid, Huberdeau immediately come to mind, they most of the time, do the heavy workload on a goal.

Which means a goal is not more valuable. It depends on the play. And since it could be either / or depending on the play, that's why the NHL has had 1 point = goal = assist for over a 100 years now. It's just basic hockey knowledge to know that an assist could as valuable or more valuable than a goal and vice versa. Or maybe we should just throw out decades of annointing players like Orr and Gretzky as the best in the game.

 

[TheNumber4]

This just isn't true. Hockey's one of the few sports that even bothers tracking assists. In football played with ball, no one cares about "assists". Only goals are tracked.

Soccer is an entirely different sport.