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Speculation: How Many Players Now Regret the Tortorella Firing?

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Tawnos said:
That's one... and Brad Richards was playing on the 4th line at that point. Besides, if scratching him was the answer, where was the accountability in all of the awful stretches he had during the regular season in both years? This was not a standard Tortorella practice.
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Just bringing up probably the biggest example.

Im not for scratching guys to "send a message." Especially when the message is "I am going to play this crappy player over you because you made one mistake last game." Again, its more about the lack of depth on this team season after season that limits the coach's ability to do that.
 
Bleed Ranger Blue said:
Just bringing up probably the biggest example.

Im not for scratching guys to "send a message." Especially when the message is "I am going to play this crappy player over you because you made one mistake last game." Again, its more about the lack of depth on this team season after season that limits the coach's ability to do that.
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If scratching a guy getting 4th line minutes is the biggest example, that just reinforces my point.
 
True Blue said:
A question that the pro-AV crowd do not answer or choose not to answer is how does a defensive corp that for several years was not only a strong point of the team but was considered among the top team wise, suddenly look utterly lost in their own end? How are they so careless? How are players suddenly roaming free in the Rangers zone?

Surely, they cannot be learning the system. That does not make one look inept.
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Utterly lost?

They looked "lost" against Tampa and Winnipeg. They certainly looked lost in the beginning of the season.

They are 12th in GA right now despite giving up 25 goals in their first 5 games.

Since starting the season 2-6 the Rangers have been 4th in GA. They were 4th in GA in the month of November.

They had a stretch of 9 games with 2 or less goals. They've held opponents to 2 or less goals in 16 of their last 21 games, which dates from today back to after the Oct. 19th game against the Devils. In those last 21 games the Rangers GAA is 2.00. They held the Bruins (2 games), Kings, Habs, Pens and Ducks to 9 goals in 6 games in November.

Considering we haven't seen the best from Lundqvist (not to mention a roster that is finally healthy) is it not possible this team will end up being a good, very good or even excellent defensive team?

Or is hope utterly lost?
 
McRanger said:
Utterly lost?
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Yes, utterly lost
Considering we haven't seen the best from Lundqvist (not to mention a roster that is finally healthy) is it not possible this team will end up being a good, very good or even excellent defensive team?

Or is hope utterly lost?
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Sure anything is possible. But what I see now does not offer optimism. More often than not, they have struggled to get out of their own way and have shown no will to engage the opponent.
 
True Blue said:
Yes, utterly lost

Sure anything is possible. But what I see now does not offer optimism. More often than not, they have struggled to get out of their own way and have shown no will to engage the opponent.
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So the fact that they've been one of the best defensive teams since mid-October despite not getting (even close to) the best out of their most important defensive player... means nothing? They have a 2.00 GAA in the last 21 games. The last 75% of the season. Sorry but I don't see "utterly lost".

Funny, Torts teams gave up 4+ goals to Atlanta/Winnipeg in 4 out of the 16 games we played them while he was coach. The Rangers gave up 9 goals to Atlanta in the first 2 games Torts faced them.

Come on TB. I know you loved Torts and have understandably contempt for Sather but are you really looking at the situation objectively?
 
Jeff Gorton was the Bruins AGM when Peter Chiarelli traded Brad Stuart who was going to be a group III. The Bruins couldn't sign Stuart. It was Stuart and Wayne Primeau to Calgary for Andrew Ference and Chuck Kobasew.

The Boston Bruins traded defenseman Brad Stuart and forward Wayne Primeau to the Calgary Flames for defenseman Andrew Ference and forward Chuck Kobasew on Saturday night.

Stuart, a key player in last season's trade that sent former Bruins captain Joe Thornton to San Jose, had been mentioned in recent trade talk because of his upcoming free-agent status.

Boston's inability to work out a new contract with Stuart forced the deal, completed just over an hour after the Bruins beat the New York Islanders 4-3 in a shootout.

"It became evident that when I wasn't having success signing Brad that I was going to have to trade Brad," general manager Peter Chiarelli said.
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http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/hockey/nhl/2007-02-11-flames-bruins-trade_x.htm

Ference was a key defenseman for the Bruins until he left last summer for Edmonton as a free agent.

Kobasew had two 20 goal seasons in Boston.
 
AV on the D corps

Vigneault said he wanted to get Moore back in the lineup after two games out, and referred to the 23 year-old's "tremendous amount of upside". Moore has two goals, three assists, and five points in 26 games played this season, and has a minus-three plus/minus rating.

The head coach also called out his defense corps to be better, stating that only one of the team's seven defensemen has played at or beyond expectations this season.

"The only one on D in my opinion that has not only played up to expectations, but where you see a lot of upswing, is (Ryan) McDonagh," stated Vigneault. "All the other guys, I think, have better to give and we're going to need them to get better."

When asked specifically about alternate captain Marc Staal, Vigneault said that he thought Staal was going through "a rough patch" and that he had been hurt by "poor puck-related decisions".

"He did not play a lot the last couple of years," the head coach said of Staal, who missed 63 games due to injury the past two seasons. "That's probably a factor."
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http://blueshirtsunited.com/posts/4...s&utm_content=twitter_1386267623#.UqDN4JFTi-I

How does he really feel? :sarcasm:
 
Not sure if this is the right thread, but pretty interesting article from Grantland discussing the inefficiency of the dump in as a strategy for gaining the offensive zone.

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/10083164/zone-entry-nhl#newthinking

Companion article by ex-player agreeing.

http://blogs.thescore.com/nhl/2013/10/29/the-player-perspective-on-the-value-of-zone-entries-as-a-hockey-stat/

Definitely read the first one at least. Pretty interesting how it could possibly relate to Torts' strategies.

Also, in light of Dolan talking about how he's brought in consultants to help "analyze" the Rangers. Could any of these advanced metrics have anything to do with Torts' firing? Or were the consultants brought in after Torts left?
 
I believe - not 100% sure - that the Rangers have blown two third period leads in the last 3 years (regular season).

Both in the last 8 days.
 
Mr Atoz said:
I believe - not 100% sure - that the Rangers have blown two third period leads in the last 3 years (regular season).

Both in the last 8 days.
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You are incorrect. The Rangers had several blown leads in the third that led to OTLs or SOLs. The recent unpleasantness was caused by their first regulation loss after leading going into the third in that time.
 
McRanger said:
Sorry but I don't see "utterly lost".
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Maybe they are lost because amazingly enough the "creativity" that was so stifled by Torts is not showing up.
Funny, Torts teams gave up 4+ goals to Atlanta/Winnipeg in 4 out of the 16 games we played them while he was coach. The Rangers gave up 9 goals to Atlanta in the first 2 games Torts faced them.
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Maybe just me, but I do not recall such defensive indifference under Torts.
Come on TB. I know you loved Torts and have understandably contempt for Sather but are you really looking at the situation objectively?
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I think I am. I have to be honest here. Yes, I was a Torts fan and yes (as all of the vets around here know) I DETEST Jackass. But REALLY? What happened to the team that we were proud of under Torts? What is this piece of crap on the ice? This is the softest and easiest team since the first Renney team that was constructed to make Jagr happy. This is the easiest team to play against since Muckler or Sather was behind the bench. This is the laziest team since Kamensky graced us with his presence. This is the most gutless team since Ron Low was behind the bench.

And even if they go on a miracle run, and these comments are brought back as evidence of how wrong I am, I stand by them. The Renney teams were soft and easty to play against, but they had heart and effort. The Tortarella teams may not have been the most creative offensively, but they brought it every night and were never outworked like this.

What is this piece of dung that we are seeing out there? The players may not regret Torts not being here. YAY!!! Let the country club reign again. THIS team is making the Campbell teams look like superstars who wore hard hats each night. THIS team is becoming as unrootable as the Lindros/Bure/Holik/Jagr/Fleury/Carter/Kasperitis teams.

Yeah, as a LOOOOONG suffering Rangers fan, give me a Tortarella team every night. Give me a not so pretty team, but one that has heart and guts and never lacks for effort every night.
 
mrhockey193195 said:
I disagree with you on a lot of things, but I agree with this 100%. Watching the 11-12 team (and to a lesser extent, the 12-13 team) gave me a lot of pride being a Rangers fan.
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Yep. Not the best offensively, really frustrating at times, but they played their hearts out. AV comes off as a player's coach right now (not too sure of his history in that regard, though). I ****ing hate it.
 
Its like people forget last year happened.

All the signs were there of what the team was becoming while Torts was still the HC.

That people thought removing him and hiring a different coach would turn the team into the blackhawks was fantasy.
 
slipknottin said:
Its like people forget last year happened.

All the signs were there of what the team was becoming while Torts was still the HC.

That people thought removing him and hiring a different coach would turn the team into the blackhawks was fantasy.
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Yup, it's the same mediocre roster from last year with a very much improved Chris Kreider. He had no money to spend last summer, which is probably a good thing since he probably would have signed like Stephen Weiss, with the RFA'S he had to sign, and added Dom Moore, Justin Falk, and Benoit Pouliot.

It makes no sense to give all of these impending UFA'S new contracts, and bring back the same exact roster.
 
slipknottin said:
Its like people forget last year happened.

All the signs were there of what the team was becoming while Torts was still the HC.

That people thought removing him and hiring a different coach would turn the team into the blackhawks was fantasy.
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Well he was the only coach that went past the 1st round the last two years he coached. Torts is infamous for not playing guys if they aren't going full tilt.

The Rangers rank 28th in goals per game under this system.
 
Mikos87 said:
Well he was the only coach that went past the 1st round the last two years he coached. Torts is infamous for not playing guys if they aren't going full tilt.

The Rangers rank 28th in goals per game under this system.
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He was also the only coach who had a balanced and deep roster.

Sather flipped most of it since.
 
I mean even if you swap Gaborik for Nash, does replacing Dubinsky, Anisimov, Prust, And Fedetenko with Brassard, Pyatt, Dorsett, and Pouiloit sound like an improvement to anyone?

That's a massive downgrade. They had size, intensity, board play, and defensive ability before.
 
Screw the players. They don't like the coach? Get rid of the players. You hire a coach you believe can lead the franchise to a championship. The players come and go. They're cogs in the machine.
 
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