How many first round loses is Dubas allowed before he should be fired?

[Stamkos4life]

The goal is to win the stanley cup, not the presidents trophy. If a team wins all 82 games but loses in the first round, they have lost.

Dubas was hired in 2014 and has been gm since 2018. As we all know, he has four consecutive first round loses (one was a playoff qualifier).

My question is, how many more first round loses do we need before you accept that dubas needs to be fired?

Is four wasted years enough? Or how about 5?

Click to read more...

 

[TheRumble]

Losing in any round first or fourth is effectively the same thing.

It's the context that matters.

If they had been embarrassed like last year or swept, it would have been 3 bad series in a row.

Instead they had a good series and were beat by a good team.

Judging all first round eliminations as equal means you've bought into the noise you hear from other fanbases who use it to trash talk the Leafs.

 

[BrannigansLaw]

This has got to be his last chance. No f***ing way they’d let him go for 6/7 straight (assuming we lose in round 1 again next season).

I thought after Montreal something would have happened. This is getting ridiculous now.

Losing in any round first or fourth is effectively the same thing.

It's the context that matters.

If they had been embarrassed like last year or swept, it would have been 3 bad series in a row.

Instead they had a good series and were beat by a good team.

Judging all first round eliminations as equal means you've bought into the noise you hear from other fanbases who use it to trash talk the Leafs.

no, it isn’t.

 

[Al14]

Same goes for Shanahan. His team is not playing hockey the way he played.

 

[TheRumble]

This has got to be his last chance. No f***ing way they’d let him go for 6/7 straight (assuming we lose in round 1 again next season).
no, it isn’t.

North American sports has zero distinctions for failures or successes for good teams. You either win the title or lose. Off the top of your head name the teams that made it to the second round of the NHL playoffs in 2008. None of them are remembered any more than the ones that didn't except for the Cup champ and finalist that year. It's the same in the NBA, NFL and MLB.

If you want to celebrate non-title successes, watch European soccer.

 

[AvroArrow]

This upcoming season is the last opportunity for everyone. 1 round isn't enough, ECF or fire them all. This team deserved a better fate this year, they were the far better team just some very bad "bounces" that happened to favor Tampa when it mattered most, everyone understands that and that's the reason they're all coming back. But 2022-23 is their final chance, if the result is the same, fire Shanahan and Dubas

 

[Victor Z]

Just making the playoffs and getting the revenue from those 2 playoff home games is good enough as far as some teams' ownership is concerned.

That's how it is in Pittsburgh now, speaking of teams who do the one-and-done thing every year.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Same goes for Shanahan. His team is not playing hockey the way he played.

One team has had some playoff success to build off while the other continues to fail

 

[keonsbitterness]

Why should I respond to a Leafs poll started by a Tampa fan?

 

[Buds17]

Losing in the first round of next season's playoffs should absolutely be it. Definitely the time to implement some new strategies at that point. I can only hope that such an idea won't even enter into anyone's thoughts.

 

[BrannigansLaw]

Just making the playoffs and getting the revenue from those 2 playoff home games is good enough as far as some teams' ownership is concerned.

That's how it is in Pittsburgh now, speaking of teams who do the one-and-done thing every year.

Maybe now but you just saw back to back Cups. I wouldn’t make a peep about management/question anything they do for 20 years if they gave us that.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Losing in any round first or fourth is effectively the same thing.

It's the context that matters.

If they had been embarrassed like last year or swept, it would have been 3 bad series in a row.

Instead they had a good series and were beat by a good team.

Judging all first round eliminations as equal means you've bought into the noise you hear from other fanbases who use it to trash talk the Leafs.

Yup. Drawing some arbitrary line in the sand just doesn't make sense to me.

 

[Buds17]

Losing in any round first or fourth is effectively the same thing.

It's the context that matters.

If they had been embarrassed like last year or swept, it would have been 3 bad series in a row.

Instead they had a good series and were beat by a good team.

Judging all first round eliminations as equal means you've bought into the noise you hear from other fanbases who use it to trash talk the Leafs.

I'll have to respectfully disagree with the bolded text. Yes, the loss to Tampa wasn't as devastating in ways as those to either of Montreal or CBJ were IMO. It's still not a matter of all first round eliminations being equal though as much as it is about having something more to appreciate by at least losing at a later stage. The SC finalist drafts quite a bit later than the teams that exit in the first round do, right? Is losing in seven not somewhat preferable to being swept? Extra home games for anyone fortunate enough to attend matters too. The only thing I'd find worse is the heartbreak involved. Mind you, I'd still take that over falling short of discernible progress.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I'll have to respectfully disagree with the bolded text. Yes, the loss to Tampa wasn't as devastating in ways as those to either of Montreal or CBJ were IMO. It's still not a matter of all first round eliminations being equal though as much as it is about having something more to appreciate by at least losing at a later stage. The SC finalist drafts quite a bit later than the teams that exit in the first round do, right? Extra home games for anyone fortunate enough to attend matters too. The only thing I'd find worse is the heartbreak involved. Mind you, I'd still take that over falling short of discernable progress.

I agree. Context matters, and willing a round (or dare I dream more than just one round) definitely adds context to be considered.

 

[3blizzard4]

So what is next years bar? Say we lose in the conf final. Everyone is happy and everyone keeps their job and we run it back?

Personally this group of players and management have been given a very long run way.

It’s Stanley Cup win that’s then only way this group stays. Anything else it’s scorched earth 1.5.

 

[BlueBaron]

I don't know man. I don't take numbers out of the air and live by them without context. He's fine for now. Not sure we should hold losing a surprise playoff appearance (Washington) against him either, that one was a plus not a minus.

One well timed goal away from beating Tampa. There is nothing to fix. He's good at finding bargains (except the Mrazek blunder) and he conducts himself with dignity and class. Keefe probably gets fired first so Kyle probably has 2 safe years assuming no break throughs or major collapses. If we fail to make or get swept well, you know how that goes.

 

[Stamkos4life]

Why should I respond to a Leafs poll started by a Tampa fan?

I'm a Leafs fan who used to think stamkos was the bees knees.

Unfortunately his knee injury derailed him.

Thank you for posting though.

This upcoming season is the last opportunity for everyone. 1 round isn't enough, ECF or fire them all. This team deserved a better fate this year, they were the far better team just some very bad "bounces" that happened to favor Tampa when it mattered most, everyone understands that and that's the reason they're all coming back. But 2022-23 is their final chance, if the result is the same, fire Shanahan and Dubas

What if the Leafs are the "far better team" but lose in the first round again next year?

I know you said they need to make the ecf or else fire them, I guess I'm just wondering why the excuses that we were the better team even though we lost is valid this year but not next year.

I thought dubas would've needed at least one series win to keep his job this year.

 

[Stamkos4life]

Losing in any round first or fourth is effectively the same thing.

It's the context that matters.

If they had been embarrassed like last year or swept, it would have been 3 bad series in a row.

Instead they had a good series and were beat by a good team.

Judging all first round eliminations as equal means you've bought into the noise you hear from other fanbases who use it to trash talk the Leafs.

What if the Leafs have a good first round series against a good team but lose again next year?

Is that good enough to give dubas a 6th year?

Excusing a 4th consecutive first round loss with dubas as gm means you have been drinking way to much of the blue kool-aid.

 

[Stamkos4life]

Yup. Drawing some arbitrary line in the sand just doesn't make sense to me.

So you don't care how many first round loses we have with dubas as gm?

You would think actual leaf fans would want their team to succeed. That would involve winning rounds in the PO.

If the current management is unable to, they need to go. That much should be obvious.

 

[TorMapleJays]

I said 7+ but I didn’t see the option of already fired.

 

[Stamkos4life]

So what is next years bar? Say we lose in the conf final. Everyone is happy and everyone keeps their job and we run it back?

Personally this group of players and management have been given a very long run way.

It’s Stanley Cup win that’s then only way this group stays. Anything else it’s scorched earth 1.5.

You would think after 3 consecutive failures, each more embarrassing than the last, it would've taken at least making the second round to give dubas any job security.

The fact so many are content with a close series loss is sad.

All those who dislike dubas would have zero ground to stand on if we made the semi finals. That's just just two series wins in one post season.

Instead, dubas led teams continue to fall short of even the second round.

 

[mikeyz]

I think next year is his last chance. I think if they lose in the 1st round again, he's 100% gone. And if he's not, then I will genuinely begin to question how serious this organization is about winning.

 

[TorMapleJays]

You would think after 3 consecutive failures, each more embarrassing than the last, it would've taken at least making the second round to give dubas any job security.

The fact so many are content with a close series loss is sad.

All those who dislike dubas would have zero ground to stand on if we made the semi finals. That's just just two series wins in one post season.

Instead, dubas led teams continue to fall short of even the second round.

They are satisfied with it because they don’t understand what winning feels like.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

Losing in any round first or fourth is effectively the same thing.

It's the context that matters.

If they had been embarrassed like last year or swept, it would have been 3 bad series in a row.

Instead they had a good series and were beat by a good team.

Judging all first round eliminations as equal means you've bought into the noise you hear from other fanbases who use it to trash talk the Leafs.

So a Stanley Cup finalist is the same as a team that goes out in the first round because in the end...neither won it all is what you are saying? Can I come work where you work?

 

[Stamkos4life]

I don't know man. I don't take numbers out of the air and live by them without context. He's fine for now. Not sure we should hold losing a surprise playoff appearance (Washington) against him either, that one was a plus not a minus.

One well timed goal away from beating Tampa. There is nothing to fix. He's good at finding bargains (except the Mrazek blunder) and he conducts himself with dignity and class. Keefe probably gets fired first so Kyle probably has 2 safe years assuming no break throughs or major collapses. If we fail to make or get swept well, you know how that goes.

For the record I don't hold losing in 2017 or 2018 against dubas as he wasn't the gm.

I also don't give him as much credit as the gm for turning the team around from last place to a 105 record in just three years.

What if we are "one well timed goal away from beating tampa" next year but still lose in the first round? Does that mean there is still nothing to fix?