How is Canada not more dominant?

[Jopo]

Irrelevant as stated because the Soviet Union last sent an entry to the 1992 Olympics, under the name Unified Team, six Olympic Games ago. Presumably, if the Soviet Union was still intact and retained the same system for training players, the results in the subsequent Olympics would have been much different than they turned out for Russia. After the Soviet Union departed, Canada has never had any consistent competition for Olympic Gold Medals, even though their actual record of having won Gold 60% of the time argues that they have not always taken advantage of their huge advantages.

We never know. But I agree with that what if hypothesis, generally.

Canada has been dominant ever since, nevertheless, even with not always with full motivation, A Teams playing for the team, drive for Bronze Medals after lost final spots etc.

 

[Jopo]

IIHF World Ranking shows something too. At least it tells that a trend of relative power within the pool of Big Six has been under constant changes lately in a light of latest The international tournaments. It's considerably harder to form International Hegemony now then it has been in the past (all circumstantial things aside) due higher overall level of The World's top.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IIHF_World_Ranking#2003.E2.80.932008

 

[Urbanskog]

There's no story here, Canada has been great. The real question should be why has the US performed so poorly.

 

[team canada fan]

not sure I`d agree with Canada`s 4th place IIHF ranking in 2014
or how the Finns somehow still sit behind Russia at present.
5th in 2012 and 2013....makes us look like sandbaggers going in to Sochi))
I don`t think the opposing teams looked at Canada`s Sochi team and thought they were the 5th best team going into the tournament

I do agree with the rankings that show flux at the top over time. No country can dominate hockey endlessly any more. It just happens to be Canada`s turn at the top. There`s a lot of good countries and good hockey players out there, working very hard and scouring the youth leagues for the very best talent. Sooner or later, some other country will knock Canada off it`s mantle

Open to hearing anyone and everyone`s best guess and estimate as to which country will knock Canada off the top of the mountain, and when that will happen....

 

[Yakushev72]

Yes, the soviet teams were surely the equals to the best Canada produced back then.

Now that we have the history lesson out of the way maybe we can get to talking about both teams today.

The 1970's don't seem to be too pertinent to 2016, maybe an inability to recognize this by certain people is the reason things aren't equal between the two sides now.

There is no evidence at all that the Canadian teams of today are better than the 1987 Canada Cup team, for example, that was loaded with the immortals of Canadian hockey history. Its just that the competition dried up and left a very noncompetitive situation.

 

[Yakushev72]

There's no story here, Canada has been great. The real question should be why has the US performed so poorly.

I don't know why the USA would be expected to do better? Most of the US is too warm to permit kids to learn to play the game in the neighborhood, and depending almost exclusively on the availability of indoor ice, there are far fewer rinks in the US than there are in Canada, by comparison. The US really doesn't have a hockey culture such as can be found in Finland. I think the US has done quite well overall.

 

[team canada fan]

not sure that it has dried up....the Americans put the fear of God in us everytime we have to face them in a one game winner take all. All it takes is a red-hot Ryan Miller or Jonathon Quick, and any such game can be `stolen`. The Russians still have elite level forwards, and the rivalry is still very much alive. It just behooves the Russians at the moment and lately to bring their D-core, upto the level of the Swedes and Canadians and even to learn to play a more team game like the Finns and Americans do.

Each country should also be working to identify its weaknesses and then shore èm up and progress. That`s what will keep the mantle at the very top in flux, versus a foregone conclusion

 

[Jopo]

There's no story here, Canada has been great. The real question should be why has the US performed so poorly.

Extra-hockey politics of economic fights mostly between NHL and IIHF approaches, apparently. USA is clear underperformer in The international scenes and tournaments no matter how you look at it.

Sad. Actually. For International hockey.

NHL is not international tournament and as such cannot ever truly take such kind role. How that can happen in relatively highly patriotic Hockey superpower nation, is mysterious for me.

 

[Urbanskog]

I don't know why the USA would be expected to do better? Most of the US is too warm to permit kids to learn to play the game in the neighborhood, and depending almost exclusively on the availability of indoor ice, there are far fewer rinks in the US than there are in Canada, by comparison. The US really doesn't have a hockey culture such as can be found in Finland. I think the US has done quite well overall.

That doesn't matter, they still have nine times more players than Sweden.

 

[jj cale]

There is no evidence at all that the Canadian teams of today are better than the 1987 Canada Cup team, for example, that was loaded with the immortals of Canadian hockey history. Its just that the competition dried up and left a very noncompetitive situation.

No one is saying they are.

The Russian teams on the other hand.................

 

[Jopo]

Sooner or later, some other country will knock Canada off it`s mantle

Open to hearing anyone and everyone`s best guess and estimate as to which country will knock Canada off the top of the mountain, and when that will happen....

I tend to think it's gonna be Russia, but not before considerable reorganisation of The System that take years to do. Everything required is already there, volume, skill, team spirit, hockey culture, traditions, drive and pride...

When these building blocks are rearranged again to fully functional whole, Team Russia will be very strong.

...Machines are seldom built by simple declaration, btw.

 

[Scotty B]

not sure I`d agree with Canada`s 4th place IIHF ranking in 2014
or how the Finns somehow still sit behind Russia at present.
5th in 2012 and 2013....makes us look like sandbaggers going in to Sochi))
I don`t think the opposing teams looked at Canada`s Sochi team and thought they were the 5th best team going into the tournament

I do agree with the rankings that show flux at the top over time. No country can dominate hockey endlessly any more. It just happens to be Canada`s turn at the top. There`s a lot of good countries and good hockey players out there, working very hard and scouring the youth leagues for the very best talent. Sooner or later, some other country will knock Canada off it`s mantle

Open to hearing anyone and everyone`s best guess and estimate as to which country will knock Canada off the top of the mountain, and when that will happen....

Yanks with their plethora of top draft picks and newly emerging strength down the middle ( their goal tending and D are top notch too ) are the obvious choice as the Biggest threat to dethrone Canada.

 

[Scotty B]

I don't know why the USA would be expected to do better? Most of the US is too warm to permit kids to learn to play the game in the neighborhood, and depending almost exclusively on the availability of indoor ice, there are far fewer rinks in the US than there are in Canada, by comparison. The US really doesn't have a hockey culture such as can be found in Finland. I think the US has done quite well overall.

Without even bothering to look it up, the number of registered players and rinks stateside is roughly on a par with Canada. They also have the advantage of being able to hot house their NTDP guys, since historically most of their top talent has been heavily concentrated in the North East.

 

[Yakushev72]

Without even bothering to look it up, the number of registered players and rinks stateside is roughly on a par with Canada. They also have the advantage of being able to hot house their NTDP guys, since historically most of their top talent has been heavily concentrated in the North East.

According to IIHF, Canada has 2631 indoor rinks, while the US has 1900. Quite a big difference. The US is well behind Canada in rinks and registered players, but at the same time, well ahead of the Europeans. This suggests that participation is not resulting in quality products. Even Russia has outperformed the US in the WC and WJC over the past 10 years. In the USA, talented athletes pursue sports other than hockey.

 

[Scotty B]

According to IIHF, Canada has 2631 indoor rinks, while the US has 1900. Quite a big difference. The US is well behind Canada in rinks and registered players, but at the same time, well ahead of the Europeans. This suggests that participation is not resulting in quality products. Even Russia has outperformed the US in the WC and WJC over the past 10 years. In the USA, talented athletes pursue sports other than hockey.

Don't know how accurate the tally of registered players are between nations? Still I was responding originally to a poster who asked (paraphrasing) which nation poses the biggest threat to Canadian hockey dominance? I still say the answer is team USA, and this speaks to the quality of players they've developed in recent years. And again I can't help thinking about the strength Yanks will have down the middle, with guys like Eichel, Larkin and Matthews, just for starters...

 

[Uncle Rotter]

Even Russia has outperformed the US in the WC and WJC over the past 10 years.

Actually, only at the WC. The US has won 2 Golds at the WJC, Russia 1. And then there's the Olympics.

 

[Uncle Rotter]

There is no evidence at all that the Canadian teams of today are better than the 1987 Canada Cup team, for example, that was loaded with the immortals of Canadian hockey history. Its just that the competition dried up and left a very noncompetitive situation.

Canadian players of today are certainly more experienced in the international game and better prepared.

 

[Scotty B]

Canadian players of today are certainly more experienced in the international game and better prepared.

In terms of preparedness, we seem to make great leaps forward in 2010 + 2014 OG's, compared to 2006 and even 2002 ( remember that first game SLC spanking by Tre Kronor? ) . One of the somewhat unsung heros, in TC's braintrust, was Ralph Krueger

 

[fredligh]

Player for player, no other nation comes even close to Canada. How are they not winning every single best on best tournament, and dominantly so?

I mean, let's view the other top nations to see how many players would make team Canada.

Sweden: 4-5.
USA: 2-3?
Finland: 0
Russia: 2-3?
Czechs: 0
Slovakia: 0
Swiss: 0...or perhaps Josi.

Sweden's team game is pretty horrid compared to Finland(s), who is the best in the world at getting 110% out of their rosters. Is Canada perhaps even worse than Sweden when it comes to this, how else are they not totally dominant?

Thoughts?

I would say in the best on best tournaments, Sweden have a better record than Finland. 2 golds 4 silvers and 5 bronze medals, while Finland have 2 silvers and 6 bronze. And i would say, Canada is dominant as they should be, they won 3 out of 4 best on the last best tournaments played. Also they have won 2 WC golds in a row now. Have you even been checking the records before posting OP?

 

[JackSlater]

I would say in the best on best tournaments, Sweden have a better record than Finland. 2 golds 4 silvers and 5 bronze medals, while Finland have 2 silvers and 6 bronze.

Sweden has only won one best on best tournament. These results are way off.

 

[chauron]

Luckily Ice Hockey is a team sport which is not played in paper by individual members. Team chemistry, tactics, strategy and management also matter a lot, and that is always super in teams by Sweden and Finland.

 

[613Leafer]

Single game elimination tournaments, especially in hockey which seems to be impacted much more by luck/bounces or even something like hot goaltending then quite a few other sports, is simply going to make it very very difficult for any country to continuously win.

Not to mention that even though Canada's depth is far better than most other countries, you can still only ice one roster at these tournaments. And the best of the best Swedish, Finnish, US, and Russian rosters on paper are pretty close to the best roster Canada can put together. If there was a tournament for countries "second" team, i.e. All the best players that couldnt make the top squad, I think the gap between Canada and the other countries would be quite large, but thats irrelevant when it comes to the Olympics or the new World Cup.

 

[MrOT]

Karlsson - Yes
Hedman - Yes
Lundqvist - Yes
OEL - Maybe
Bäckström - Maybe
H. Sedin - probably if Canucks were better (he´s basically Thornton level)
D. Sedin - no
Forsberg - no, at least not yet
Zetterberg - no, not any more
Landeskog - if they were in need of a role player for the fourth line which they´re not

 

[Trap Jesus]

I kind of feel like 2014 Canada is as dominant of a team as you're going to find in hockey, and I'm expecting 2016 to be similar. You don't have to win 10-0 every game to dominate. A lot of random things can happen in hockey, especially in a single-game elimination tournament (when you get to the knockout stage). Canada absolutely owned everyone in terms of possession wire-to-wire every game and took as much "luck" out of the equation as you can in hockey.

 

[MarkStone]

Not that this 1998 Canadian team, allegedly one lucky bounce away from winning gold, won any game that mattered.

Are we really having banter over a bronze medal game nearly 20 years ago?