How Great Would Gretzky Be If He Played In The Modern Era? (post-lockout)

[Master P]

I feel like he'd be a more polite Kucherov.

 

[Walrus26]

Better is relative.

Goaltending is also much more predictable today. Which would favor Gretzky

Of all the things I've read in this thread, this is possibly the most thought-provoking.

You're 100% right. Many of today's goalies aren't necessarily any better than good goalies in earlier eras..... they're simply a lot bigger and are more capable of being in the way due to size, gear, conditioning and coaching.

 

[fcpremix88]

Not a chance. Goalies and defensemen are much better now and Gretzky wasn’t a physical specimen to take over like McDavid.

His numbers would be similar to Kucherov+

He was still one of the best playmakers in his mid-to-late-30s. He was doing this with modern goalies and in the dead puck era. Every thread like this brings up actual stats to prove this instead of assumptions.

 

[Nfumass]

He would be a couple of tiers below the McDavid Kuch MacKinnon group.

For sure, probably an average AHL, definitely not good enough for anyones top 6 in a 32 team league and wouldn’t fit a bottom 6 player so most likely an AHL player.

 

[NotCommitted]

Wayne played into the 90s you know. Selanne at 27 years old was just keeping up with an old broken down Gretzky and Teemu had no problem outscoring some of the stars still playing today as an old man himself. 43 year old jagr did just fine himself too.

This is what I always try to keep telling people in these threads, but they never listen.

 

[Video Nasty]

This is what I always try to keep telling people in these threads, but they never listen.

I’ve never seen a single person successfully refute that stance either. In fact, I never see them even acknowledge it. It’s completely indefensible, so they always pretend they didn’t see such posts and move along.

To expand on the other post, 43 year old Jagr managed to finish 21st in scoring. He finished 5 points behind 30 year old Ovechkin while playing the same number of games. He only had 19 points less than 28 year old Crosby, who played one more game.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

With the newer skates, sticks, and training regimens? Still great, if not even more great.

We can play this dumb game for a lot of blokes.

If Mario had no ailments and was healthy in the same year proposed?

Bure?
Lindros without the scrambled brains?
Foppa without his foot welded on?

 

[Johnnybegood13]

Why do people continue to compare era's? Gretzky, Orr, Jagr, Lemieux, Ovechkin, Crosby etc would be superstars no matter when they played. For me Gretzky and Orr are 1A's and then a pile of 2nd's

 

[Jumptheshark]

Here is the question I asked every time this comes up.

Factor in under 99's times there was the two line off side. Oilers always lead the league in 2 line off side calls. IF that was not against the rules? His numbers would be higher. And the current guys number would be lower if they had a the two line off side rule

 

[authentic]

I’ve never seen a single person successfully refute that stance either. In fact, I never see them even acknowledge it. It’s completely indefensible, so they always pretend they didn’t see such posts and move along.

To expand on the other post, 43 year old Jagr managed to finish 21st in scoring. He finished 5 points behind 30 year old Ovechkin while playing the same number of games. He only had 19 points less than 28 year old Crosby, who played one more game.

Also Jagr turned 44 halfway through that season

 

[Fatass]

The greatest players will be the greatest in any era. These greatest players have crazy skills, of course, but they all also have incredible drive to be the best and insanely high hockey iq. As a result, they will all use the tools available (training, nutrition, etc) available in an era to be at their absolute best.
So, Gretzky would be the best of any era. OV would be the best goal scorer of any era. And the list would continue.

 

[zappa4ever]

No, time machines are not a thing. He'd enjoy the same opportunities today's athletes do, and still have the best mind for the game and the same desire and will to win

but he'd be on a team that scores <300g/season instead of 400+/season, wouldn't have near the qty of All-Star teammates, wouldn't regularly have 4/5/6/7/8 goal leads to pad stats upon, wouldn't have the shit goalies/smaller pads/poorer techniques to pad stats upon

he'd still dominate, but nowhere near the fashion the high-scoring 80's afforded him. Parity would prevent it.

 

[BLNY]

This again?

He would excel. His ability to create and use space was second to none. His innate ability to know where everyone was on the ice was second to none. He was sneaky fit in an era where players still used camp to get in shape. Would he have the same gap between peers that he had 40 years ago? Probably not. Would he be the 200 foot player a guy like Crosby is? Maybe not. But his skills transcend any era. With modern training techniques and technology I think he'd still be the best.

How many goals does Ovechkin score with a wooden stick? A wooden stick with a flat blade?

 

[domiwroze]

The goalies were god awful, there is no denying that.

Rough to compare 2 totally different era. The game has changed too much. He'd be a top5 scoring talent for sure but more ala Thornton, great passer and playmaker. He wouldn't be known as the GOAT. All 12F and 6D can skate with him now, except maybe Savard and Chiarot.

 

[umma gumma]

but he'd be on a team that scores <300g/season instead of 400+/season, wouldn't have near the qty of All-Star teammates, wouldn't regularly have 4/5/6/7/8 goal leads to pad stats upon, wouldn't have the shit goalies/smaller pads/poorer techniques to pad stats upon

he'd still dominate, but nowhere near the fashion the high-scoring 80's afforded him. Parity would prevent it.

But the league also doesn't have two-line offside anymore and is not nearly as physical and far more stringent when it comes to calling infractions that impede a player. He'd still lead the league every year in points and never be under the threat of relinquishing it.

 

[umma gumma]

The goalies were god awful, there is no denying that.

Rough to compare 2 totally different era. The game has changed too much. He'd be a top5 scoring talent for sure but more ala Thornton, great passer and playmaker. He wouldn't be known as the GOAT. All 12F and 6D can skate with him now, except maybe Savard and Chiarot.

This is such nonsense. They wouldn't be able to keep up his IQ, he would outsmart most of them. He would most certainly be known as the goat. Old men that outscored today's stars could just keep up with Gretzky as a broken down shell of himself. 43 year old Jagr had no problem keeping up with some of today's wonderkids.

 

[domiwroze]

This is such nonsense. They wouldn't be able to keep up his IQ, he would outsmart most of them. He would most certainly be known as the goat. Old men that outscored today's stars could just keep up with Gretzky as a broken down shell of himself. 43 year old Jagr had no problem keeping up with some of today's wonderkids.

Yea? Are we talking about 91goals in 362games over the 6seasons 94-95 to 99 Gretzky against goalies that started to not allow goals on zone entry shots? Or 91 goals that are against real dogshit goalies that about 2000 non-nhl goalies just in Canada could do better right now?

Please note that top 5 in today's NHL is nothing to laugh at. There is so much more talent in today's NHL THANKS to Wayne, Mario, Jagr, etc.

Jagr wasn't top5 since his 2006-2007 season, that's 11years before his retirement (from the NHL, because the madlad won't stop playing)

It's just not the same hockey bud, you really can't compare the two. Anyone's guess are valid to be honest, so is yours, we'll never know.

 

[NotCommitted]

Jagr wasn't top5 since his 2006-2007 season, that's 11years before his retirement (from the NHL, because the madlad won't stop playing)

I'm not sure what point you are making? Jaromir Jagr turned 35 during 2006-2007 season, how many players are top5 in their late 30s? Jagr was already past his prime back then and decided to call it quits in the NHL after 1 more year.

The fact he came back after a couple years KHL hiatus to have a 2nd mini NHL career in his 40s and was able to somehow keep up is insane. And the Jagr in his 40s who still managed to score 60-70 points was painful to watch for someone who also saw him in the 90s, but he adapted.

 

[Blue and Green]

Yea? Are we talking about 91goals in 362games over the 6seasons 94-95 to 99 Gretzky against goalies that started to not allow goals on zone entry shots? Or 91 goals that are against real dogshit goalies that about 2000 non-nhl goalies just in Canada could do better right now?

Please note that top 5 in today's NHL is nothing to laugh at. There is so much more talent in today's NHL THANKS to Wayne, Mario, Jagr, etc.

Jagr wasn't top5 since his 2006-2007 season, that's 11years before his retirement (from the NHL, because the madlad won't stop playing)

It's just not the same hockey bud, you really can't compare the two. Anyone's guess are valid to be honest, so is yours, we'll never know.

Gretzky finished tied for 4th in points at age 36 and tied for 3rd at age 37, in the dead-puck era with butterfly goalies in huge equipment and lots of European/Russian/American players in the league... and in the latter of those two seasons, his team finished in the bottom quartile in goals scored so it's not as though he had a lot of talent surrounding him to help. Will add that when he was 36 he put up 10 goals and 10 assists in 15 playoff games, leading his very average team to a pair of upsets that propelled them to the semifinals, so apparently even then he didn't need to be playing against "dogshit goalies" or dogshit teams or whatever, in order to succeed.

 

[TheGuiminator]

Peak: Around 170–180 points.
Prime: He’d routinely put up 130–145 points.

He’d be the best player in the league today, but McDavid might be the only one who could give Gretzky a run for his money on some occasions

 

[domiwroze]

Gretzky finished tied for 4th in points at age 36 and tied for 3rd at age 37, in the dead-puck era with butterfly goalies in huge equipment and lots of European/Russian/American players in the league... and in the latter of those two seasons, his team finished in the bottom quartile in goals scored so it's not as though he had a lot of talent surrounding him to help. Will add that when he was 36 he put up 10 goals and 10 assists in 15 playoff games, leading his very average team to a pair of upsets that propelled them to the semifinals, so apparently even then he didn't need to be playing against "dogshit goalies" or dogshit teams or whatever, in order to succeed.

Fun fact : your '' dead-puck era '' 96-97 season has a 2.80 GA per game, with terrible parity in the league VS 2.81 GA per game in 24-25 with the best parity that the NHL has ever seen.

So, if I take that argument and say alright well, let's compare theses seasons with another 37years old player in the NHL. Sidney Crosby has a better season as a 37years old if you take into account that he's doing it against better goalies, better opponents, better parity, way faster game, better systems, with a shit team too and just straight up better overall league.

Does that make Sid the best of all time? Could be, since he's doing arguably better than Gretzky's 37years old season.

Denying that Getzky's greatness and stats weren't stacked and amplified due to his era is plain delusion.

Still great, still top5 year in and out in this NEW hockey. Wayne isn't superhuman.

 

[mattihp]

His brain is only good for hockey but darn is it amazing at that.

He would adapt and be the best.

 

[Blue and Green]

Fun fact : your '' dead-puck era '' 96-97 season has a 2.80 GA per game, with terrible parity in the league VS 2.81 GA per game in 24-25 with the best parity that the NHL has ever seen.

So, if I take that argument and say alright well, let's compare theses seasons with another 37years old player in the NHL. Sidney Crosby has a better season as a 37years old if you take into account that he's doing it against better goalies, better opponents, better parity, way faster game, better systems, with a shit team too and just straight up better overall league.

Does that make Sid the best of all time? Could be, since he's doing arguably better than Gretzky's 37years old season.

Denying that Getzky's greatness and stats weren't stacked and amplified due to his era is plain delusion.

Still great, still top5 year in and out in this NEW hockey. Wayne isn't superhuman.

Increased parity? When Gretzky was 36 and 37, the gaps between the top team and the bottom team were 46 points in 1997 and 65 points in 1998. This season, with a few games remaining the Jets have 61 more points than the Sharks. Last season the gap between top and bottom was 67 points.

The best and worst goals differentials in the league in 1997 were +72 and -67 (gap of 139), and in 1998 +75 and -118 (gap 193). This season with a few games to go they are +87 and -98 (gap 185). Last season they were +66 and -150 (gap 216).

 

[Random Comment]

Peak: Around 170–180 points.
Prime: He’d routinely put up 130–145 points.

He’d be the best player in the league today, but McDavid might be the only one who could give Gretzky a run for his money on some occasions

McDavid is so freaking far superior than Gretzky ever was I simply can’t believe anyone could watch highlights and games of both and think anything otherwise. Nostalgia is one hell of a drug.

 

[Oneiro]

Controlling for conditioning, modern skill training and improved skating with more power on his shot, etc., he'd wreck this league.

This is a very technically skilled and fast league but it is certainly not the smartest version.

Look at 99's highlight reel - it's borderline Watson-IQ level alien decision-making at times. No one, not even Sid or Kucherov, throws the puck to seemingly nowhere as much as Gretzky did.