How Great Would Gretzky Be If He Played In The Modern Era? (post-lockout)

[umma gumma]

I was thinking the same thing. There are some advantages he had that he wouldn't today.

1. He had McSorley watching his back, who would knock you the f*** out if you sneezed on him. Elite players today don't have that protection anymore. My guess is that he gets run a few times with clean hits and he tightens up on that stick.

2. Complete lack of defensive systems. It was shinny hockey back then compared to what's played today. As mentioned, he could afford to take his time behind the net. He tried that today he'd be ass-over-teakettle in a heartbeat.

3. The game is so much faster today. Yes, he had tremendous hockey IQ, but it helped that the game was much slower. I wonder how effective he would have been if he had less time to allow plays to develop. The players are in better shape (when he started out, players used to smoke in the locker rooms) and better prepared. Sure, he would have the advantages of better nutrition and better training, etc., but I think that would lead to the mean would catch up to him more than he pull away.

4. Goaltenders have improved exponentially. Be it the development of the butterfly, or the MASSIVE difference in equipment size, it's not as easy to score anymore. Back then you could see the net behind them, with ample space to shoot for. Now they block out the sun. Sure, skaters have had some developments, like modern composite sticks vs. wooden sticks. He had an accurate shot, but nit a string one. I don't think he benefits as much from the change.


He was head and shoulders above his peers (at least until Mario arrived). Where would he be today? Near the top no doubt, but I'm not sure he'd be as elite as he was.

1. Hilarious. McSorely was there because it was a vicious league. Today's stars don't need it because the game is much tamer. Wayne shared the ice with Lindros, Stephens, Shanahan, Tkachuck, Roberts, Probert, Domi, Potvin, etc... who were afraid of no one...why couldn't they run him? Easier said than done when the player already knows what you're thinking. Advantage Gretzky.

2. Don't kid yourself, its not like the league is filled with teams that play suffocating defense. There are plenty of defensive pairings to exploit. You could also get away with far more hooking and slashing in Wayne's day. They also had to deal with two-line off-side. The stretch pass is a big part of today's game; how would today's stars fair with two-line off side? I think their points would suffer. Removing the redline is advantage Gretzky.

3. He played in the 90s you know, with lots of talented Russians, Europeans, and Americans, and was still considered the best player along with Mario.

4. Some of goalies he played against were just as good if not better than what we have now; Hasek, Brodeur, Roy, Belfour, etc...If he could score against them he could do it no problem against the Korpisalos and Talbots of today's league, especially with today's sticks.

He would win Art Ross every year. By how much is anyone's guess, but he would not come under threat of losing it.

 

[tfwnogf]

Didn't Gretz smoke cigarettes during intermissions? Imagine chickpea pasta Gretzky - that dude would torch the league.

 

[pdavemoney]

Let's just look at the 97-98 season (1 or 2 years prior to retirement) when he was MAYBE half the player he was in his early 20s during the 80s.. He was essentially a Mitch Marner (25, 72) level scorer in a NHL that was harder to score in than todays NHL, while being a shell of his glory days. Jagr put up nearly 100 points in 60 something games. He was nowhere near prime Gretz levels. Kariya put up McDavid numbers, 99 points in 69 games. Kariya wouldn't even be able to hold Gretz jockstrap if the Great One has been 22 years old instead of 37. These players would admit this themselves. And we know all those players can hang with the best players of today, based on their play against others coming up after them. It's not even guess work. Wayne would be the best player in today's NHL.

 

[Nerowoy nora tolad]

O

His game of circling, reversing, and sliding would still work very well in today's no redline straight line game. He would face better goaltending and i can't imagine the same level of teammates. That means about 25 fewer points a year but still quite dominant.

One thing that seems to be forgotten is that Gretzky was considered a fairly slow, but excellent technical skater for his era. Playing against players that are 30% faster than his era won't matter, because being a bit slower than everybody else wasn't the issue the first time. And his use of so many unconventional patterns like reversing and circling probably is going to be a WTF moment for this generation of players because anybody doing that at the junior levels is going to get screamed at.

The actual biggest hindrance to his game is going to be defenders having composite sticks and being much more aggressive about poking the puck away instead of hitting him. Part of what made Gretzky OP was that hitting him was like nailing jello to a tree blah, blah, but also that pokechecks with a wooden stick were harder to execute for defenders, so his superior skating and puckhandling meant he could dangle while keeping a cushion of space for like a minute and a half of zone time. 2025 defenders are going to constantly go after him with the stick because composites are so much lighter.

 

[HockeyGuy1964]

He would have been a top player in any era.

 

[SmytheKing]

He would also face 2025 goalies.

Looking at the 81-82 season, the top goalie with min of 20 games played had a .911 sv% 10th was .885
2025 #1 is .924 with 11th being .911, to get to .885 you'd have to go past the top 50 of 2025 who #50 was .889. 3 players in the 81-82 had a sub 3.0 GAA, 42 players in 2024-2025 season had a sub 3.0 GAA.

...and then it begs the question of whether that's because the goalies are better, the players have been watered down with a larger pool of skaters, the systems of when/where you take a shot from, etc etc come into play.

The fact of the matter is we'll never know but, we have no reason to believe that Gretzky wouldn't be just as talented as he was (if not better due to training and equipment improvements). How that would translate and adjust with the way the game is played? No idea. To assume he wouldn't be one of the best players though is sort of silly. His skills are his skills and they wouldn't be worse just because goalies were smaller.

 

[nbwingsfan]

I think they are both significantly better players yes. I’m not gonna play a hypothetical game of “if gretz had the training and equipment of today” bit.

As I’ve pointed out before without a single answer yet from the “Gretzky wouldn’t be that good” crowd…. Considering Gretzky outscored HoF players like Trottier, Hawerchuck, Statsny etc by like 70-90pts… what would that make those guys?

40pt players? 50pts? Is Gustav Nyquist better than all of them?

 

[dekelikekocur]

...and then it begs the question of whether that's because the goalies are better, the players have been watered down with a larger pool of skaters, the systems of when/where you take a shot from, etc etc come into play.

The fact of the matter is we'll never know but, we have no reason to believe that Gretzky wouldn't be just as talented as he was (if not better due to training and equipment improvements). How that would translate and adjust with the way the game is played? No idea. To assume he wouldn't be one of the best players though is sort of silly. His skills are his skills and they wouldn't be worse just because goalies were smaller.

Eye test says goalies are better, with better training and technique.

Goalies were smaller yes, they also really sucked back then. Compare the prevailing goalie techniques from the early 80s to now. Shooter tutors block more shots than goalies back then.

As far as watering down? I would say the current average is substantially higher skill level now a days due to a lot of advancements and more focus on development/diet/training.

 

[BallardEra]

Didn't Gretz smoke cigarettes during intermissions? Imagine chickpea pasta Gretzky - that dude would torch the league.

I think that was Mario.

 

[eXile3]

I’ll go ahead and take the hate but not that great. He was more of innovator than anything. Most of the things that made him special are now pretty standard among elite players.

His play away from the puck, his vision and anticipation, these are all things players are now coached on through out their development. And yes some obviously do it better than others, it wouldn’t separate him the way it did back then.

He would be up there with Crosby, OV, McDavid, but he would not have such a large separation in talent in my opinion.

 

[94 Oil Drops]

Wayne's brain (hehe that rhymns) was like a hockey super computer. That's the main reason why he was the great one. Whatever obstacles modern NHL would place in his way, (bigger players, faster skaters, ect) he would overcome them and still be the greatest ever. He was that smart as a hockey player.

 

[David Bruce Banner]

Modern Gretzky with modern everything would probably still lead the league in scoring in his peak seasons. He wouldn't be lapping the field like he did in the day, but he'd probably still be comfortably (say, 15-25 points) ahead of the next highest scorer. That's peak... most other seasons he'd probably still be somewhere between leading scorer and top 10.

Take any of the old-time Super Stars, give them all the modern advantages, and they'd still be Super Stars. Their numbers would probably just reflect the current scoring rates and general LQ.

Honestly, I think that, of The Big 4, the one that translates the worst into the modern era is Orr. I still believe that he would be a top player, considered on par with Makar and the like, but it's always been my opinion that he benefited more than any of the others by being in the right place (Boston Bruins during one of their franchise highs) at the right time (massive expansion + a rival league + fewer non-Canadians).

 

[Nathaniel]

Lemieux got 199 points being hooked and held. With the hooking/holding rules today a 100% Lemieux (no cancer or back limitations) would regularly get over 200 points.

Plus no red line n 3 on 3 OT lol

 

[Eternal Leaf]

He would still be the best player in the game.

His hockey IQ was simply out of this world and that would help him rack up points easily.

 

[bleedgreen]

One aspect the younger generation can’t really “get” which is unfair to whole conversation while not remotely being their fault is the difference in clutching and grabbing in today’s game vs the past. This was an all encompassing difference between the eras, and it runs much deeper than just grabbing the star in question. It’s their passing targets. For all of Gretzky and Lemiuex’s career not only could guys water ski off the two of them (when they could catch them) but they could latch onto the driving wingers and interfere all they wanted with them. I think wingers like Ovy and Kovalchuk would’ve still been good players back then as they had the strength to fight through and I think they would’ve. I wonder how effective McDavid would’ve been back then, and I’m someone who already puts Mcdavid up with the greats right now - I’m a fan and think he deserves to be up there.

While Gretzky’s skating wouldn’t be light speed now, he always played with his brain while always being the greatest playmaker in the league history. I think with no one interfering with him or any of his targets he would pick teams apart with the passing now. He’d be a lethal pp player still, no question. People always want to focus on the goals, which is funny to me as I did watch Gretzky play (all of the back half) and he wasn’t a goal scorer. He already was known for his “office” behind the net, which is where he did all his damage. Ovy was a better goal scorer when he was 18 compared to Gretzky. It’s a record
of longevity for them both, and consistency for Ovy. Gretzky was hardly a shooter in the back half of his career and mostly got his goals off of third or fourth rebounds or plays where just because he’s in the right spot the puck came to him to bury a half empty netter. He was never the shooting focal point of a pp, pretty much ever. He was just that dominant that he got all those goals. I don’t even think of him as a shooter.

 

[dekelikekocur]

One aspect the younger generation can’t really “get” which is unfair to whole conversation while not remotely being their fault is the difference in clutching and grabbing in today’s game vs the past. This was an all encompassing difference between the eras, and it runs much deeper than just grabbing the star in question. It’s their passing targets. For all of Gretzky and Lemiuex’s career not only could guys water ski off the two of them (when they could catch them) but they could latch onto the driving wingers and interfere all they wanted with them. I think wingers like Ovy and Kovalchuk would’ve still been good players back then as they had the strength to fight through and I think they would’ve. I wonder how effective McDavid would’ve been back then, and I’m someone who already puts Mcdavid up with the greats right now - I’m a fan and think he deserves to be up there.

While Gretzky’s skating wouldn’t be light speed now, he always played with his brain while always being the greatest playmaker in the league history. I think with no one interfering with him or any of his targets he would pick teams apart with the passing now. He’d be a lethal pp player still, no question. People always want to focus on the goals, which is funny to me as I did watch Gretzky play (all of the back half) and he wasn’t a goal scorer. He already was known for his “office” behind the net, which is where he did all his damage. Ovy was a better goal scorer when he was 18 compared to Gretzky. It’s a record
of longevity for them both, and consistency for Ovy. Gretzky was hardly a shooter in the back half of his career and mostly got his goals off of third or fourth rebounds or plays where just because he’s in the right spot the puck came to him to bury a half empty netter. He was never the shooting focal point of a pp, pretty much ever. He was just that dominant that he got all those goals. I don’t even think of him as a shooter.

Everyone is much faster now a days, there's much less space and there wouldn't be Semenko protecting Gretz in today's league. I'm sure he'd still be at the top of the league in his prime but I don't think it would be as by even remotely close to the same margin he was in his actual prime. The average player is much better these days and even "scrubs" of today are much better than scrubs of yesteryears.

 

[rumrokh]

There are a bunch of guys NOW who don't really stack up in physical skills, but are still extremely effective players. And there are a bunch of guys who are huge and fast and don't even have bad hands, but are still just 4th liners. Hockey smarts aren't just about knowing things in general, it's the speed at which you process everything and how good you are at anticipating things your opponent can't prevent no matter how big and fast he is. Even if the gap shrinks, there's still a gap.

 

[Donnie740]

Gretzky scored over 200 points in FOUR (4) different seasons.

Today, with no clutch and grab style allowed, with no red line and with 5mins of 3-on-3 hockey, Gretzky would be close to 250 points.

 

[OrrNumber4]

He'd still be one of the, if not the best players in the league still, can't really deny that.

But he wouldn't be putting up 200 pt seasons and outscoring the next tier of players by 50 points.

Talent floor has just risen so much since his time, those numbers are just not attainable

I think a better version of Kuch, but at C is a solid comparison

I have to disagree. An old, stale, unhealthy Mario Lemieux tore up the NHL. He lapped great players like Jagr, Sakic, and Modano. These players, despite their age, could hang with Crosby/Ovechkin....who now, despite their own aging, can hang with Draisaitl and MacKinnon. Maybe the spread between McDavid is a little bigger than that, but you can see, transitively, how Gretzky and Lemieux dominated players that McDavid couldn't...

Talking about skills, I've never seen a player pick apart systems like Gretzky could. In today's hyper-structured league, Gretzky could have revolutionized the game (again).

 

[Randyne]

As mentioned, he could afford to take his time behind the net. He tried that today he'd be ass-over-teakettle in a heartbeat.

Absolutely this.
Quote from CBC News https://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/hanging-out-in-gretzky-s-office-1.787471:

Wayne would park himself there behind the net, waiting and watching. Sometimes it would seem he would wait there forever. But when someone gave him an opening he would attack. It might be a pass, it might be a deke, but most of the time it was a goal. No one could figure out what to do about it.

Really? How about just kick his ass out from there?
AI says 30-50% assist were from his office. That's 589-982 assists. His record is hyper inflated.

 

[Nathaniel]

Gretzky scored over 200 points in FOUR (4) different seasons.

Today, with no clutch and grab style allowed, with no red line and with 5mins of 3-on-3 hockey, Gretzky would be close to 250 points.

You just keep going after him back there. Sure he had the iq n speed to make a play quick. But eventually he would stop setting up so much due to the punishment. Yeah no way that whole office thing works anymore

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

What is this? Hockey IQ and desire/drive is not era dependant.

Yes it is because the speed, time & space, are very much different. No one knows what his yield would be with the time and space of today, let alone all the other secondary factors. People are so sure of their opinions yet rarely recognize this. In today's game, there's someone in your face as soon as you get the puck. Options are a lot more limited and decisions must be taken way more quickly. Gretzky wasn't a speedy player either and the newer skates (late 80's and 90's skates were already pretty good compared to the past) wouldn't make him that much of a better skater. Yeah, better training, but having had it easy from an early age, would he have had the motivation to become a better skater? Who knows?

The only real answer is that we just don't know and never will. Those who think they do are just full of themselves. I avoid these threads most of the time because it's always the same silly arguments and pretentions. Not to mention that the older people are, the more likely they have huge nostalgia biases that most don't have the proper introspection to control for. Bringing up the DPE for Lemieux is just as silly. Game was still slower and the average player still less talented compared to today because the talent pool was still more limited. More talent means everyone is closer to the mean, and the old superstars wouldn't be an exception compared to today's superstars.

 

[SharksFan1992]

Gretzky would still be great, but wouldn't be putting up anywhere near the numbers he put up in the 80s and early 90s. Goaltending and defense has improved so much. Fourth lines are no longer a goon line. Good teams rolls 4 competent groups of forwards. Gretzky in Ovi's era wouldn't have put up 2,000 points. Many of Gretzky's goals in the 80s have become routine stops for modern goalies.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

It's like comparing two completely different sports.

Gretzky is not overrated because in his prime before Mario got going the gap between him and #2 was so historically wide, but I don't think the conditions exist in the modern game for that same gap to be possible.

People bring up the idea of modern training, but Gretzky's game wasn't based on physicality or outstanding athletic ability. If anything, modern training is cancelled out because everybody is doing it. It only helps players who have some sort of elite or generational physical trait. McDavid with his speed, etc.

With Lemieux, I could see the argument because physically you could argue that he has untapped potential. Even in the 2000s when he was borderline immobile he was producing ridiculous numbers. If you take a time traveling pre-teen Lemieux and force him to be adopted by Mitch Marner's dad, who will force the 12 year old to do deadlifts with Gary Roberts, and improve his mobility+skating as much as possible with elite training, then you have someone who I think could possibly be #1 by a large gap even with the differences in the game.

I don't think Gretzky benefits as much with modern training as people make it out, he'd still be a franchise player, and maybe #1 in the league.

 

[Fatass]

Prime 99 would put up 200+ points and dominate.