How good is the Jets scouting staff?

[allan5oh]

Their USHL/NCAA/WHL scouting is incredible. Those guys deserve a raise.

I don't think we scout the NCAA too much. The only pick we've had is Andrew Copp. Pretty large variety of leagues overall. And to be honest their CHL scouting could be better except for 2013. That was a great year. But prior than 2013 CHL picks Zach Yuen(2011 4th round 119 OA) and Lukas Sutter (2012 2nd round 39th OA) weren't even offered contracts.

 

[allan5oh]

AHL development is their bread and butter, so I'm glad the Manitoba Moose are back in Winnipeg.

It goes all the way back to when they were the farm team of the Vancouver Canucks. IMO, They played a big role in developing guys like Schneider, Kesler, Bieksa, Grabner, etc.

I believe Craig Heisinger (current and previous GM of the Moose / assistant GM of the Jets) was also responsible for finding Burrows and Rypien.

But we haven't fully seen it. It will be another year or two before it becomes apparent. The current Moose crop is young an inexperienced.

 

[Brodeur]

2012
Hellebuyck (5th)

I stumbled on this interview with Kings co-head scout Mark Yannetti from around the 2014 Draft. One question he was posed was whether the Kings had ever gotten sniped on a prospect they had been targeting. Typically teams would keep that sort of info confidential, so I was surprised when Yannetti mentioned that the Kings were targeting Hellebuyck later that round (they ended up with Colin Miller instead).

Sometimes there's a degree of luck involved. Gare Joyce wrote a book about when the Blue Jackets let him ride shotgun for their 2006 and 2007 Drafts. Off the top of my head, Columbus had guys like Claude Giroux, Ryan McDonagh, and Kevin Shattenkirk ranked higher than consensus rankings / where they ended up being taken. But the Blue Jackets weren't in a position to draft them, so their scouting staff wouldn't receive 'credit' for identifying them.

 

[allan5oh]

I stumbled on this interview with Kings co-head scout Mark Yannetti from around the 2014 Draft. One question he was posed was whether the Kings had ever gotten sniped on a prospect they had been targeting. Typically teams would keep that sort of info confidential, so I was surprised when Yannetti mentioned that the Kings were targeting Hellebuyck later that round (they ended up with Colin Miller instead).

Sometimes there's a degree of luck involved. Gare Joyce wrote a book about when the Blue Jackets let him ride shotgun for their 2006 and 2007 Drafts. Off the top of my head, Columbus had guys like Claude Giroux, Ryan McDonagh, and Kevin Shattenkirk ranked higher than consensus rankings / where they ended up being taken. But the Blue Jackets weren't in a position to draft them, so their scouting staff wouldn't receive 'credit' for identifying them.

Luck? Maybe.

Do you not think teams keep tabs on each other? Keep a tab on who is scouting who, what the needs are, etc. Also teams may not follow their draft list strictly. If they know someone is a "sleeper" they can slide them down the rounds. It would be very interesting to know of all the little details like this over the years. But we will never know.

However the GM and ownership certainly know.

Jets fans are pretty sure we had Trouba ranked #3 in 2012. I think Chipman let that one slip previously. It would explain why Chevy had a grin while making the selection.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

They're good, but Connor was a no brainer with Barzal gone.[/QUOTE

Connor and Barzal are about the same. But id say Barzal has more of a two way game in em

I've seen both play.

Barzal is a marvelous distributer of the puck with excellent vision. He can slow down the play and find the best passing option. I would term his playmaking ability as elite. Wingers are going to score many goals that they normally would not have a chance on with him as their center. He makes others better as we saw how he impacted Mitchell Stephens on Team Canada from the under 18.

Connor plays a pro style. He has great wheels and he does things normal for him at what others would term as high speed. He is a better finisher at this stage than Barzal, whereas Barzal is a better distributer. Connor has been compared as a Toews lite. I see him very comparable to another prospect I liked in his draft year Dylan Larkin. And actually had him higher. Hard to describe why a player has a winner tag attached to him. But I see Connor as a guy that exudes winning.

 

[Brodeur]

Luck? Maybe.

Do you not think teams keep tabs on each other? Keep a tab on who is scouting who, what the needs are, etc. Also teams may not follow their draft list strictly. If they know someone is a "sleeper" they can slide them down the rounds. It would be very interesting to know of all the little details like this over the years. But we will never know.

Luck might not be the exact word I was looking for. In terms of Hellebuyck, it was just interesting to hear a mid-to-late round pick be the one that Yannetti mentioned.

Speaking of adhering strictly to your list, there's another interesting story from the Kings. At the 2007 Draft, they had Wayne Simmonds ranked very highly but they figured they might be the only ones who were ready to use a 2nd rounder on him.

The Kings had picks #52 and #61. The plan was to take Simmonds at #52, but they were surprised to see that Oscar Moller was still available. They had Simmonds ranked higher than Moller, but figured Moller was a more coveted prospect. Their staff had a quick debate about whether to take Moller first and gamble that Simmonds would be there at #61. At least one member of their staff was vehemently against straying from their list. In the end, the Kings took a calculated risk and got both.

 

[DonskoiDonscored]

I don't think we scout the NCAA too much. The only pick we've had is Andrew Copp. Pretty large variety of leagues overall. And to be honest their CHL scouting could be better except for 2013. That was a great year. But prior than 2013 CHL picks Zach Yuen(2011 4th round 119 OA) and Lukas Sutter (2012 2nd round 39th OA) weren't even offered contracts.

It's not even about picking players in the NCAA really, it's just that the Jets NCAA scouts know exactly when a player is ready (or not) for primetime and have a lot of patience in it.

 

[VanIslander]

"It's a real laugh."

I, a longtime Thrashers fan who tried to become a Jets fan, have been disappointed by Winnipeg scouting staff picking up:

2011
Scheifele before Couturier, Hamilton, Brodin, Gibson, Jenner, Kucherov

2012
Trouba before Filip Forsberg, Mikhail Grigorenko, Zemgus Girgensons, Cody Ceci, Tomas Hertl, Olli Maatta, Tanner Pearson

2013
Morrissey before Nikita Zadorov, Mirco Mueller, Andre Burakovsky

2014
Nikolaj Ehlers before ... (okay i like the pick but the jury's out on this year) ...Vrana, Honka, Milano, Kapanen, McCann, Goldobin, Ho-Sang

2015 No idea. The Jets first pick and those afterwards have done squat yet.

Therefore..... -3 ADDED TO either +1, 0 or -1 ADDED to 0 = -2 to -4 over the last five drafts. Ugh.

 

[mcpw]

okay

 

[VanIslander]

okay

Glad you agree.

This is not the Jets board.

The truth hurts.

There are 29 other scouting staffs, the majority of which probably are worth heralding more on this board.

 

[Jetabre]

"It's a real laugh."

I, a longtime Thrashers fan who tried to become a Jets fan, have been disappointed by Winnipeg scouting staff picking up:

2011
Scheifele before Couturier, Hamilton, Brodin, Gibson, Jenner, Kucherov

2012
Trouba before Filip Forsberg, Mikhail Grigorenko, Zemgus Girgensons, Cody Ceci, Tomas Hertl, Olli Maatta, Tanner Pearson

2013
Morrissey before Nikita Zadorov, Mirco Mueller, Andre Burakovsky

2014
Nikolaj Ehlers before ... (okay i like the pick but the jury's out on this year) ...Vrana, Honka, Milano, Kapanen, McCann, Goldobin, Ho-Sang

2015 No idea. The Jets first pick and those afterwards have done squat yet.

Therefore..... -3 ADDED TO either +1, 0 or -1 ADDED to 0 = -2 to -4 over the last five drafts. Ugh.

I'm guessing this is a joke post?

 

[mcpw]

I'm guessing this is a joke post?

no, but we could fix it
trade trouba+morrissey+ehlers+1st for hertl+goldobin+mueller

 

[VanIslander]

I'm guessing this is a joke post?

Yeah, I mentioned the facts about 16 impact NHLers they panned as draft picks over the five years as a joke!

I brought reasons.

Please do likewise.

Unproven potential compared to actual NHL success over the last five draft years. The Jets have a weak track record of successful drafting compared to THE OPTIONS THEY HAD!
I thought so then, and now. I have not admired their drafting (other than I'm hopeful about unproven Ehlers - I buy the hype).

 

[Romang67]

Yeah, I mentioned the facts about 16 impact NHLers they panned as draft picks over the five years as a joke!

I brought reasons.

Please do likewise.

Unproven potential compared to actual NHL success over the last five draft years. The Jets have a weak track record of successful drafting compared to THE OPTIONS THEY HAD!
I thought so then, and now. I have not admired their drafting (other than I'm hopeful about unproven Ehlers - I buy the hype).

You did? Looks to me like you just stated that the Jets drafted players over other players. Or are you saying that those players are worse than all the players you named? Cause if so... Nope.

 

[Curufinwe]

Uh, Scheifele and Trouba look like f***ing fantastic picks right now.

 

[allan5oh]

It's not even about picking players in the NCAA really, it's just that the Jets NCAA scouts know exactly when a player is ready (or not) for primetime and have a lot of patience in it.

Ah I see what you mean, more the development side. I'd agree Trouba, Hellebuyck, and Copp all turned pro at the right time. I just think Copp might need some time in the AHL.

 

[MardyBum]

"It's a real laugh."

I, a longtime Thrashers fan who tried to become a Jets fan, have been disappointed by Winnipeg scouting staff picking up:

2011
Scheifele before Couturier, Hamilton, Brodin, Gibson, Jenner, Kucherov

2012
Trouba before Filip Forsberg, Mikhail Grigorenko, Zemgus Girgensons, Cody Ceci, Tomas Hertl, Olli Maatta, Tanner Pearson

2013
Morrissey before Nikita Zadorov, Mirco Mueller, Andre Burakovsky

2014
Nikolaj Ehlers before ... (okay i like the pick but the jury's out on this year) ...Vrana, Honka, Milano, Kapanen, McCann, Goldobin, Ho-Sang

2015 No idea. The Jets first pick and those afterwards have done squat yet.

Therefore..... -3 ADDED TO either +1, 0 or -1 ADDED to 0 = -2 to -4 over the last five drafts. Ugh.

Please tell me there's a missing in this post.

Someone. . .

Anyone?

 

[Koonta]

Yeah, I mentioned the facts about 16 impact NHLers they panned as draft picks over the five years as a joke!

I brought reasons.

Please do likewise.

Unproven potential compared to actual NHL success over the last five draft years. The Jets have a weak track record of successful drafting compared to THE OPTIONS THEY HAD!
I thought so then, and now. I have not admired their drafting (other than I'm hopeful about unproven Ehlers - I buy the hype).

find a dictionary and look up the word reasons. You gave no reason for your ridiculous post. Pretty funny stuff.

 

[allan5oh]

You want some humor? Go look at the Thrashers drafting record, especially between 2004 and 2010. Exactly ONE player with any sort of meaningful NHL impact outside of the first round:

Ondrej Pavelec

 

[Koonta]

Glad you agree.

This is not the Jets board.

The truth hurts.

There are 29 other scouting staffs, the majority of which probably are worth heralding more on this board.

It's also not the comedy central board.

 

[McNurse]

no, but we could fix it
trade trouba+morrissey+ehlers+1st for hertl+goldobin+mueller

Uhhhhhhhh

 

[Skinnyjimmy08]

I follow the WHL extremely close and know players like back of my hand and I just gotta say that the guys Jets drafted out of WHL over the years are unreal picks. Whenever I watch the draft, I cannot believe the WHLers available still by the time Jets pick... case in point most recent this year when Harkins was still there in 2nd

 

[Hale The Villain]

They have an elite scouting staff. Since 2011 only Detroit and Anaheim would be teams I would consider better at drafting/developing. Ottawa is on the same level, and teams like St. Louis and Tampa are close behind.

 

[Duke749]

I, a longtime Thrashers fan who tried to become a Jets fan, have been disappointed by Winnipeg scouting staff picking up:

2011
Scheifele before Couturier, Hamilton, Brodin, Gibson, Jenner, Kucherov

2012
Trouba before Filip Forsberg, Mikhail Grigorenko, Zemgus Girgensons, Cody Ceci, Tomas Hertl, Olli Maatta, Tanner Pearson

2013
Morrissey before Nikita Zadorov, Mirco Mueller, Andre Burakovsky

2014
Nikolaj Ehlers before ... (okay i like the pick but the jury's out on this year) ...Vrana, Honka, Milano, Kapanen, McCann, Goldobin, Ho-Sang

2015 No idea. The Jets first pick and those afterwards have done squat yet.

Therefore..... -3 ADDED TO either +1, 0 or -1 ADDED to 0 = -2 to -4 over the last five drafts. Ugh.

Stop being sour.

Not sure that Jenner has really proven a whole lot. But Scheif will likely shut up a ton of doubters this year. He's has taken strides since last year.

The different tiers of players you name here is ridiculous. Trouba, Forsberg, Hertl, and Maata are clearly better than the rest. And Trouba is nearly unanimously considered one of the top 2-3 defenseman from that draft. So you're very alone here. Forsberg does have a case though, for sure.

Again, some very silly and random names here. Doesn't make any sense, at all...

Yeah, neither have most other teams' prospects. Just comes across as sour and bitter.

Yeah, I mentioned the facts about 16 impact NHLers they panned as draft picks over the five years as a joke!

I brought reasons.

Please do likewise.

Unproven potential compared to actual NHL success over the last five draft years. The Jets have a weak track record of successful drafting compared to THE OPTIONS THEY HAD!
I thought so then, and now. I have not admired their drafting (other than I'm hopeful about unproven Ehlers - I buy the hype).

You didn't provide any reasons at all. And you just come across as bitter and it's silly.

 

[newfy]

I think the Jets scouting staff seems like one of the best in the league, but its also important to remember that none of these guys have really panned out yet.

Guys like Scheifele and Trouba who look like they will pan out into very good players havent yet and theyre also top 10 picks. I'm not sure how much props you give to picking good guys in the top 10 in all honesty. But even still those guys have some steps to take before they become top guys in the league. Players like Ehlers, Petan, Copp have yet to do anything of note at the NHL level as well.

The Jets scouting staff isnt like the Wings, Nashville with D and goalies or the Ducks yet because they dont have a track record to say its likely all these guys pan out for them. It looks like they are well on their way to building that track record but until these guys do it at the NHL level I'm not quite ready to crown them the best. There is something to be said though about picking guys who even look solid in the later rounds even if they dont pan out because they can be used as trading chips as well