How good do we think we are?

[542365]

I think we make the playoffs, win a round, and are a tough out in the second. Probably best case scenario. 0% we make Cup Finals.

 

[Xerloris]

I never saw Pietrangelo do anything that would lead me to believe he was a ‘shit’ person. He was the captain of the Blues and always seemed to act honorably on and off the ice. He cashed in on one of the few chances in his career he was able to. Good for him. This should never call someone’s character into question.

edited out first sentence referencing this being a whole campaign.

I view how he handled the last month here as a crybaby bullshit thing. It was his camp and his agent speaking to the media to try and make Armstrong look bad and turn the fans against him. Fact is the team chose not to give out NMC and if the owner wanted it done he could have demanded Armstrong do it. The team drew a line in the sand and went as far as they were comfortable going and yet still, Petro never budged at all on his demands which leads me to believe he was never negotiating in good faith. Instead he was trying to hold the team hostage because he felt he could manipulate Armstrong into giving him what ever he wanted. Hence why his side was talking to the press and why he was acting all shocked when he was on his way to Vegas and we signed Krug. Dude was nothing but a manipulative bitch and those are my thoughts on it and mine alone.

I’m not sure what you’re referencing, other than I’ve seen maybe one or two odd posts from known malcontents. I didn’t think acknowledging that his decision was self-serving is a smear on his character. It was a business decision on both sides. He made his choice, as was his right. If you’re referring to something else maybe you can quote the posts?

I believe he was referring to me saying I believe he is a shit person. Probably nothing to do with anyone else.

 

[Blueline2757]

I view how he handled the last month here as a crybaby bullshit thing. It was his camp and his agent speaking to the media to try and make Armstrong look bad and turn the fans against him. Fact is the team chose not to give out NMC and if the owner wanted it done he could have demanded Armstrong do it. The team drew a line in the sand and went as far as they were comfortable going and yet still, Petro never budged at all on his demands which leads me to believe he was never negotiating in good faith. Instead he was trying to hold the team hostage because he felt he could manipulate Armstrong into giving him what ever he wanted. Hence why his side was talking to the press and why he was acting all shocked when he was on his way to Vegas and we signed Krug. Dude was nothing but a manipulative bitch and those are my thoughts on it and mine alone.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

We're a playoff team, not a Cup contender right now. Could we be a Cup contender? Yeah, but IMO lots of things have to go right. [Cue people expect perfection claims.] Easton has it more right: we could win 2 rounds just as easily as we go out quietly in the 1st round.

Then again, maybe not being the favorite will be a good thing. When we won the Cup in 2019, we only had home-ice advantage for the Dallas series and we needed to rally from down 3-2 to win that. Since 2012, we've generally struggled with home ice; perhaps finishing 3rd or 4th and having no expectations from anyone will be a good thing.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

I view how he handled the last month here as a crybaby bullshit thing. It was his camp and his agent speaking to the media to try and make Armstrong look bad and turn the fans against him. Fact is the team chose not to give out NMC and if the owner wanted it done he could have demanded Armstrong do it. The team drew a line in the sand and went as far as they were comfortable going and yet still, Petro never budged at all on his demands which leads me to believe he was never negotiating in good faith. Instead he was trying to hold the team hostage because he felt he could manipulate Armstrong into giving him what ever he wanted. Hence why his side was talking to the press and why he was acting all shocked when he was on his way to Vegas and we signed Krug. Dude was nothing but a manipulative bitch and those are my thoughts on it and mine alone.



I believe he was referring to me saying I believe he is a shit person. Probably nothing to do with anyone else.

Fair enough.

I wouldn’t use the derogatory language you did, but I agree that Pietro’s camp was the side that was leaking information and the way things went down, it’s easy to argue that this was to let prospective teams know what he/his agents wanted. It’s a way to negotiate before you are formally negotiating, through the media. I’m not sure when he made the decision to leave, but I think it was probably sooner than the last week or two before the deadline. My speculation.

All of that is his right to do. He doesn’t have to explain anything, he was UFA and has the right to go where he wanted. But I don’t understand the hero worship he has incited. The richest contract in franchise history wasn’t good enough to reach a compromise. Business is business.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

We're a playoff team, not a Cup contender right now. Could we be a Cup contender? Yeah, but IMO lots of things have to go right. [Cue people expect perfection claims.] Easton has it more right: we could win 2 rounds just as easily as we go out quietly in the 1st round.

Then again, maybe not being the favorite will be a good thing. When we won the Cup in 2019, we only had home-ice advantage for the Dallas series and we needed to rally from down 3-2 to win that. Since 2012, we've generally struggled with home ice; perhaps finishing 3rd or 4th and having no expectations from anyone will be a good thing.

Serious question, AFTER the slow start under Yeo, when was the moment that you felt THAT team was a Cup contender? I pose that to everyone. I remember pretty well what the tone of the board was then. I got a lot of flack for even believing they were a playoff team for a long time.

They were demonstrably a Cup contender, but when did they prove that?

 

[Majorityof1]

Fair enough.

I wouldn’t use the derogatory language you did, but I agree that Pietro’s camp was the side that was leaking information and the way things went down, it’s easy to argue that this was to let prospective teams know what he/his agents wanted. It’s a way to negotiate before you are formally negotiating, through the media. I’m not sure when he made the decision to leave, but I think it was probably sooner than the last week or two before the deadline. My speculation.

All of that is his right to do. He doesn’t have to explain anything, he was UFA and has the right to go where he wanted. But I don’t understand the hero worship he has incited. The richest contract in franchise history wasn’t good enough to reach a compromise. Business is business.
Emphasis added.

What does the bolded have to do with anything? Of course signing one of your top 2 players is almost always going to be the richest contract in franchise history. That is what inflation does. Contracts go up. The cap goes up. It was not the richest as a percentage of the cap. Tarasenko got 10.5% of the cap. We offered Pietrangelo 10.4%. Hell, Pietrangelo's old contract was 10.1% of the cap when he signed it, so it wasn't much of a raise in terms of cap percentage.

That is just in terms of one team, but doen't even consider the wider market. What we offered would have been the 28th richest contract in the NHL, and that is just in terms of salary. When you factor in bonus structure and NMC, it would not have cracked the top 30 in best contracts. Would you stay with a company who payed everyone else poorly just because they paid you less poorly than everyone else? What if another company offered slightly more salary and much better benefits?

It is no where near fair to call someone a shit person because they took the best deal on offer.

 

[EastonBlues22]

Serious question, AFTER the slow start under Yeo, when was the moment that you felt THAT team was a Cup contender? I pose that to everyone. I remember pretty well what the tone of the board was then. I got a lot of flack for even believing they were a playoff team for a long time.

They were demonstrably a Cup contender, but when did they prove that?

I think most people started opening to the idea in January, when the team really started finding itself under Berube and Binnington came up and played well. Then the idea, at least for me, solidified when those things didn't fade away down the stretch...and that last three weeks going into the playoffs confirmed it. The team had a lot of chemistry, was executing a system well that complemented their talents, was getting very good goaltending, and was demonstrating a lot of character (especially late in games).

I don't know that they ever thought they were the favorite before the playoffs, but I definitely thought they had a chance to win it all.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

What does the bolded have to do with anything? Of course signing one of your top 2 players is almost always going to be the richest contract in franchise history. That is what inflation does. Contracts go up. The cap goes up. It was not the richest as a percentage of the cap. Tarasenko got 10.5% of the cap. We offered Pietrangelo 10.4%. Hell, Pietrangelo's old contract was 10.1% of the cap when he signed it, so it wasn't much of a raise in terms of cap percentage.

That is just in terms of one team, but doen't even consider the wider market. What we offered would have been the 28th richest contract in the NHL, and that is just in terms of salary. When you factor in bonus structure and NMC, it would not have cracked the top 30 in best contracts. Would you stay with a company who payed everyone else poorly just because they paid you less poorly than everyone else? What if another company offered slightly more salary and much better benefits?

It is no where near fair to call someone a shit person because they took the best deal on offer.

Your last line misreads what I said by 180 degrees. Maybe you meant that addressed to someone else?

I appreciate that there is a lot of context for weighing the value of the contract he rejected. We’ve done that. None of it changes the fact that he turned down the richest dollars contract in franchise history. You are arguing that even in spite of that fact, it wasn’t very competitive. I don’t fully agree, even though I can understand the reasons he could (and did) demand more.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

I think most people started opening to the idea in January, when the team really started finding itself under Berube and Binnington came up and played well. Then the idea, at least for me, solidified when those things didn't fade away down the stretch...and that last three weeks going into the playoffs confirmed it. The team had a lot of chemistry, was executing a system well that complemented their talents, was getting very good goaltending, and was demonstrating a lot of character (especially late in games).

I don't know that they ever thought they were the favorite before the playoffs, but I definitely thought they had a chance to win it all.

I’m struggling to remember when I thought they were ‘contenders’. I was pretty confident they’d beat San Jose and make the SCF at that point. And I thought they’d beat Dallas too. I wasn’t so confident going into the Winnipeg games, nor Boston. The definition of “contender” can be a moving target. It’s probably the biggest reason we have these long debates. We aren’t meaning the same thing with the same words.

Probably Sanford’s goal was when I really knew they were a contender, by one definition.

 

[HighNote]

Serious question, AFTER the slow start under Yeo, when was the moment that you felt THAT team was a Cup contender? I pose that to everyone. I remember pretty well what the tone of the board was then. I got a lot of flack for even believing they were a playoff team for a long time.

They were demonstrably a Cup contender, but when did they prove that?

For me, it was early/mid February when I thought that they could be serious contenders. I knew for sure they were when O'Reilly buried that OT winner against the Leafs, bar down.

But I specifically remember a game in early February against the Devils where at the end of a 1st period shellacking the Devils goalie was skating off and just shaking his head, because he was getting absolutely peppered. It was one of the most dominant periods I've seen us play, iirc. I think we ended up winning like 8-3.

 

[ItsOnlytheRiver]

Fair enough.

I wouldn’t use the derogatory language you did, but I agree that Pietro’s camp was the side that was leaking information and the way things went down, it’s easy to argue that this was to let prospective teams know what he/his agents wanted. It’s a way to negotiate before you are formally negotiating, through the media. I’m not sure when he made the decision to leave, but I think it was probably sooner than the last week or two before the deadline. My speculation.

All of that is his right to do. He doesn’t have to explain anything, he was UFA and has the right to go where he wanted. But I don’t understand the hero worship he has incited. The richest contract in franchise history wasn’t good enough to reach a compromise. Business is business.

It's bizarre to me how quickly you rushed in earlier to clarify that no one was being derogatory towards Pietrangelo personally (of course, besides the person I was quoting who used 'shit person' over a contract negotiation they had nothing to do with), but will very quickly turn around the hyperbole to fit your argument. Who here is hero worshiping besides the obvious known malcontents (your words)? I am disappointed Pietrangelo signed elsewhere and I hold the Blues FO more at fault for that than the player, but I'm over it. Probably most people are. I would prefer we not call a guy who did great things both on the ice and off for this city names simply because he chose to take a bigger payday elsewhere. It's childish and, frankly, a pretty poor look for our fan base.

I will not request quotes to prove your claims as you did mine. Seems silly.

 

[Blueline2757]

It's bizarre to me how quickly you rushed in earlier to clarify that no one was being derogatory towards Pietrangelo personally (of course, besides the person I was quoting who used 'shit person' over a contract negotiation they had nothing to do with), but will very quickly turn around the hyperbole to fit your argument. Who here is hero worshiping besides the obvious known malcontents (your words)? I am disappointed Pietrangelo signed elsewhere and I hold the Blues FO more at fault for that than the player, but I'm over it. Probably most people are. I would prefer we not call a guy who did great things both on the ice and off for this city names simply because he chose to take a bigger payday elsewhere. It's childish and, frankly, a pretty poor look for our fan base.

I will not request quotes to prove your claims as you did mine. Seems silly.

I agree, I'm not upset at Pietrangelo with that said I still hold Army at fault, But I'm over it. And with the way some Blues fans are calling a player who put his heart and soul into the team and city and did great things simply because he did what was best for him and his family. It's petty and pathetic, I thought Blues fans were better than that.

 

[mike1320]

I agree, I'm not upset at Pietrangelo with that said I still hold Army at fault, But I'm over it. And with the way some Blues fans are calling a player who put his heart and soul into the team and city and did great things simply because he did what was best for him and his family. It's petty and pathetic, I thought Blues fans were better than that.

 

[stl76]

Serious question, AFTER the slow start under Yeo, when was the moment that you felt THAT team was a Cup contender? I pose that to everyone. I remember pretty well what the tone of the board was then. I got a lot of flack for even believing they were a playoff team for a long time.

They were demonstrably a Cup contender, but when did they prove that?

I thought we could potentially win a cup after Binnington's shutout against philly 1/7/19.

I thought the Blues were a legit cup contender after the three game streak when they beat the lightning on 2/7/19 (who were on FIRE and tearing up the league at the time) followed by beating the perds in back to back games on 2/9/19 & 2/10/19.

I truly believed the Blues would win the cup after Schwartz's last minute goal in game 6 of the WInnipeg series. Something just felt different after that goal went in.

 

[parliamentlite]

Serious question, AFTER the slow start under Yeo, when was the moment that you felt THAT team was a Cup contender? I pose that to everyone. I remember pretty well what the tone of the board was then. I got a lot of flack for even believing they were a playoff team for a long time.

They were demonstrably a Cup contender, but when did they prove that?

I had really high hopes leading into the season and felt crushed around December. But once the winning streak happened I started to believe again, and they largely maintained that level of play for the rest of the season.

Talking with my dad on the phone before the last couple of regular season games when we had the chance to win the division, I told him: "I don't really care which spot we finish in. In every other season of my lifetime, I've felt like if such-and-such team gets eliminated, and we play these guys instead, if we have home ice, yadda yadda; only then did we have a chance. This season I don't think there's anyone I'm sure would beat us in a 7 game series."

It just felt like everything was coming together, everyone knew their roles, and they were all rowing in the same direction successfully.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

It's bizarre to me how quickly you rushed in earlier to clarify that no one was being derogatory towards Pietrangelo personally (of course, besides the person I was quoting who used 'shit person' over a contract negotiation they had nothing to do with), but will very quickly turn around the hyperbole to fit your argument. Who here is hero worshiping besides the obvious known malcontents (your words)? I am disappointed Pietrangelo signed elsewhere and I hold the Blues FO more at fault for that than the player, but I'm over it. Probably most people are. I would prefer we not call a guy who did great things both on the ice and off for this city names simply because he chose to take a bigger payday elsewhere. It's childish and, frankly, a pretty poor look for our fan base.

I will not request quotes to prove your claims as you did mine. Seems silly.

My request wasn’t asking for proof. It was a genuine request because I hasn’t seen what you described (to my memory) and I read the whole forum regularly. But that was followed by the poster quoting himself for our benefit. I’m not debating you. I thought we were having a conversation.

Is the descriptor “hero worship” derogatory? I don’t mean it as an insult. I mean it as a descriptor of people who credit him out of reasonable proportion for the Cup success. If his departure makes the Blues decisively lose contender status despite adding Krug and Hoffman, I think that’s giving Pietro more credit for the team success than he deserves. But we certainly agree, post-script assassination of his character and abusive language is embarrassing.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

I had really high hopes leading into the season and felt crushed around December. But once the winning streak happened I started to believe again, and they largely maintained that level of play for the rest of the season.

Talking with my dad on the phone before the last couple of regular season games when we had the chance to win the division, I told him: "I don't really care which spot we finish in. In every other season of my lifetime, I've felt like if such-and-such team gets eliminated, and we play these guys instead, if we have home ice, yadda yadda; only then did we have a chance. This season I don't think there's anyone I'm sure would beat us in a 7 game series."

It just felt like everything was coming together, everyone knew their roles, and they were all rowing in the same direction successfully.

Great post. I had the same experience: I didn’t mind they didn’t have home ice nor did it matter who they played. And similarly, every year before I’ve had strong preferences for which path would give them a chance.

 

[Davimir Tarablad]

I agree, I'm not upset at Pietrangelo with that said I still hold Army at fault, But I'm over it. And with the way some Blues fans are calling a player who put his heart and soul into the team and city and did great things simply because he did what was best for him and his family. It's petty and pathetic, I thought Blues fans were better than that.

Same could be said of the people who put all the blame on Army, saying he pushed Petro out the door when all he did was offer the richest contract in franchise history. Army did what he thought was best for the Blues, Petro did what he thought was the best for him and his family. It's a two-way street ffs.

 

[simon IC]

I am concerned that our new-look defense is going to be exposed, especially in the playoffs. The combined loss of Pietrangelo, Bouwmeester, and Steen is a huge blow defensively. I know some are trying to downplay this, but I honestly do not think the offensive contributions of Hoffman and Krug are enough to compensate for this loss. Hoffman can be, and has been, easily neutralized in an intense playoff environment. I am also not confident in Krug's ability to withstand sustained pressure in his own zone, especially at ES. As much as I welcome the improvement to the PP that both players will absolutely bring, the downgraded PK could make our special teams very lopsided. Many here do not realize that the PK is just as important as the PP, especially in the playoffs, and I think this because the PK is not something we have had to worry about for some time. I am hoping that Binnington will make every point I have made moot, but I am not confident that will happen.

 

[Spektre]

Hockey playoffs are just such a beast. I think the Blues make the playoffs and then the 2nd season starts as normal. Even when the Blues won the cup they could have been eliminated if a bounce here or there doesn't go their way. Just get in and be playing as a team and you never know.

 

[EastonBlues22]

Same could be said of the people who put all the blame on Army, saying he pushed Petro out the door when all he did was offer the richest contract in franchise history. Army did what he thought was best for the Blues, Petro did what he thought was the best for him and his family. It's a two-way street ffs.

Agreed.

There was nothing stopping Armstrong from offering what Pietrangelo finally accepted, except he simply didn't want to because he didn't think it was in the best interests of himself and/or the organization (those two things are related). Tough to blame him, because the restrictions of the contract would have made his future efforts more difficult on several fronts (although he was arguably receiving compensation for that in the immediate future).

There was nothing stopping Pietrangelo from taking the Blues offer, except he didn't want to because he had a better offer elsewhere. Tough to blame him, because the careers of athletes have a very finite shelf life, not to mention relatively little autonomy, and they can end in an instant. Besides, most working people who have a choice in where they work are going to take the best financial offer available, especially if it also offers the most guarantees/security/control.

There's room for disagreement in there with one side or the other, or both, and I understand this was an emotionally charged event and those emotions need to go somewhere, but I just don't see the need to demonize either party.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

Serious question, AFTER the slow start under Yeo, when was the moment that you felt THAT team was a Cup contender? I pose that to everyone. I remember pretty well what the tone of the board was then. I got a lot of flack for even believing they were a playoff team for a long time.

They were demonstrably a Cup contender, but when did they prove that?

After Sanford scored in Game 7.

OK, it was probably after we came back in Game 5 against Winnipeg and swiped a game we had NO business winning. That was when I thought "this is the kind of game you see from a team that finds a way to win the Cup." But even then, I didn't get all-in invested. Couldn't. I've been a long-suffering Blues fan since I can remember, I've been the Charlie Brown to the hockey gods' Lucy with the football way too many times to count. I wasn't doing that again, so I didn't start thinking oh shit, we might actually do this until that Sanford goal.

Yeah, we went on a miraculous run from the depths of the league standings. Yeah, we were hot. We had the chance to secure the division title and didn't. I wasn't getting delusions of ultimate victory; they were going to have to prove that - and that meant they were going to have to go right on the doorstep of glory, the door wide open, them ready to step through and nothing having a chance of stopping them. Everything else until then was tantalizing, exciting, but quite easily yet another argument for get ready to have your beating heart ripped out of your chest and mashed to a f***ing pulp yet again, sucker.

 

[execwrite1]

Make the playoffs, out in Round One.

Three major question marks -

Binnington - he was at his finest with Petro and Bouwmeester in front of him and no Faulk/Krug, both who aren't as strong defensively.

Parayko - can he be a true number one.

Faulk - can he return to top-level d-man status.

 

[Ranksu]

Interesting our front office undervalued profit what Pietro would bring in to them in 8-year spann. Not even talking what money they would invest in when Pietro would retire as a Bluenote. So much opportunities.

All that marketing and franchise face to the St Louis city? You all that lose + NHL top5 dmen just for you didn't give the your best player of all time security so he can keep his family safe and play where he was drafted and retire as a Bluenote.

I say this

This

Was

Disgrace.