How good do we think we are?

[EastonBlues22]

I've quoted a few people and deleted some extraneous content, but the pessimism is certainly there. There's no question about it. If you think I'm making this stuff up, you're not reading everything objectively.

Exactly zero of those posts stated or implied the Blues need to be perfect in every area to be a contender. You're simply making up that extreme notion and associating it with those you disagree with to make their opinions seem less reasonable.

That is textbook strawman and hyperbole.

 

[BlueMed]

Exactly zero of those posts stated or implied the Blues need to be perfect in every area to be a contender. You're simply making up that extreme notion and associating it with those you disagree with to make their opinions seem less reasonable.

That is textbook strawman and hyperbole.

Maybe you need to learn how to read between the lines. These posts were the result of us downgrading our defense from Petro to Krug, and that's it. Without any significant loss in our forward group and starting goaltending, the sentiment around here is that we are no longer a real contender. Clearly, this team has to have great forwards, great defense, and great goaltending to be considered a contender (perfection mentality). Does Colorado have great goaltending? Nope, and yet many other posters still put them above us. That's a double standard.

 

[HighNote]

It's a general sentiment that I'm referring to after losing Petro and gaining Krug. This pessimism was not there prior to his signing with Vegas. I've quoted a few people and deleted some extraneous content, but the pessimism is certainly there. There's no question about it. There's also a strong tendency to put Colorado and Vegas on a pedestal despite the fact that those teams have their own roster issues.

Yo, in the same post I literally say this:

So as the team stands currently, I think we are absolutely capable of contending, but we're no longer a serious one.

And this:

The loss of Pietrangelo is huge obviously, but it goes deeper than just losing a top 5 defenseman in the world.

There's other reasons why I was saying that.

I say this in another thread as well:

I may be in the minority, but I view Vegas, Colorado, and St. Louis to be about evenly matched.

So you can take my post out of your list, thank you.

 

[Blueline2757]

Maybe you need to learn how to read between the lines. These posts were the result of us downgrading our defense from Petro to Krug, and that's it. Without any significant loss in our forward group and starting goaltending, the sentiment around here is that we are no longer a real contender. Clearly, this team has to have great forwards, great defense, and great goaltending to be considered a contender (perfection mentality). Does Colorado have great goaltending? Nope, and yet many other posters still put them above us. That's a double standard.

The Blues aren't an contender without Petro, Because It's true whether you want to admit it or not. Yes the Blues D is good but in the regular season the D will be fine but the the playoffs are a whole different ballgame and it will expose the Krug and Faulk and the Blues are going to be in a world of hurt. As for the Avs their goaltending isn't great but it's passable and the rest of the team, Forward and Defense is superior.

 

[Mike Liut]

We are stacked. Enjoy the season.

 

[EastonBlues22]

Maybe you need to learn how to read between the lines. These posts were the result of us downgrading our defense from Petro to Krug, and that's it. Without any significant loss in our forward group and starting goaltending, the sentiment around here is that we are no longer a real contender. Clearly, this team has to have great forwards, great defense, and great goaltending to be considered a contender (perfection mentality). Does Colorado have great goaltending? Nope, and yet many other posters still put them above us. That's a double standard.

Your "reading between the lines" is someone else's "putting words in their mouths."

You are literally voicing an opinion that zero other people have voiced, and you're also saying "that's how this place is" as if it's a common occurrence.

People thinking another team is better than the Blues is not the same thing as what you are representing their opinion as being.

It's also not something you can reduce to being a trite double standard when their opinions are a lot more nuanced than what you are implying.

It's perfectly reasonable to think that one flawed team is better than another, depending on what one thinks each team's strengths and weaknesses are...something that is clearly pretty subjective.

 

[Xerloris]

The Blues aren't an contender without Petro, Because It's true whether you want to admit it or not. Yes the Blues D is good but in the regular season the D will be fine but the the playoffs are a whole different ballgame and it will expose the Krug and Faulk and the Blues are going to be in a world of hurt. As for the Avs their goaltending isn't great but it's passable and the rest of the team, Forward and Defense is superior.

The Pens won back to back cups with a laughable defense.

 

[Blueline2757]

The Pens won back to back cups with a laughable defense.

Yeah but they have Crosby and Malkin.

 

[CaliforniaBlues310]

The Blues aren't an contender without Petro, Because It's true whether you want to admit it or not. Yes the Blues D is good but in the regular season the D will be fine but the the playoffs are a whole different ballgame and it will expose the Krug and Faulk and the Blues are going to be in a world of hurt. As for the Avs their goaltending isn't great but it's passable and the rest of the team, Forward and Defense is superior.

Krug was Boston’s best defenseman on their run to the Finals in 2019. Also, at full health, this team’s offense on paper is definitely better than the team we won the Cup with. Having the ability to run Tarasenko or Hoffman on the 3rd line is going to be huge for us.

Army turned this team back into a contender with the Krug and Hoffman signings. Just wait, it won’t be as dire as you think.

 

[Blueline2757]

Krug was Boston’s best defenseman on their run to the Finals in 2019. Also, at full health, this team’s offense on paper is definitely better than the team we won the Cup with. Having the ability to run Tarasenko or Hoffman on the 3rd line is going to be huge for us.

Army turned this team back into a contender with the Krug and Hoffman signings. Just wait, it won’t be as dire as you think.

Yeah Krug was their best defenseman but he was also sheltered as hell. I still have my doubts about the makeup of this Blues team.

 

[EastonBlues22]

To me, right now, this has the feel of a team where its sum will potentially be less than its individual parts might suggest.

I see an forward group that could potentially be explosive, but the cost is a top 9 that is liberally sprinkled with players who are prone to defensive gaffes, or who are not known for being particularly good two way players, or who are still growing defensively (Hoffman, Perron, Schenn, Kyrou, and Tarasenko). I can see this group being aggressive, but I don't see them being good enough in the defensive zone to compensate for any defensemen defensive deficiencies. That could be alleviated by subbing in and/or moving up some of the depth players in the lineup, but at the cost of neutering some of that potential offense.

I also see a defensive group that is decidedly more vulnerable in the top 4, both in defending and in ability to transition under heavy pressure, than it previously was when the Blues won the Cup. The ROR and 4th line did a lot of heavy lifting defensively during that Cup run, but the defense covered up a lot of defensive mistakes from the other two lines, and the defense's ability to transition under heavy presssure was a big part of their ability to generate/sustain offensive momentum, not to mention to reduce some of the pressure on Binnington (relatively few extended shifts hemmed in their own zone, etc.).

That combination suggests to me that Binnington is going have a tougher task this upcoming season, as well as more pressure if the team in front of him isn't supporting him the way it did during 2019.

Bottom line, I'm just not sure the strengths of each group are as synergistic as they previously were, and I'm not sure how Berube can adapt things to alleviate that.

I don't think it's hopeless, though. Far from it.

There is a lot of forward talent to work with and a number of rather good depth role players that can be mixed in. Berube has a lot of viable combinations that he can experiment with as he attempts to find lines that synergize well internally, and with the greater whole.

Among the defensemen, there's legitimate room for hope that one or more players might step up their games in a significant way this coming year, and there's also hope that Berube can craft a system that minimizes their increased vulnerability, or that the offense ends up being explosive enough that it adequately compensates for any losses defensively, or that Binnington is such a brick wall that it doesn't even matter.

I'm not particularly optimistic myself right now, but it's not shot in the dark stuff, either.

Whatever happens, it should be an interesting year that gives us a lot of insight into the team's competitive core, Berube's tactical range as a coach, and about whether the direction Armstrong steered this team in looks to be a truly viable one.

 

[Reality Czech]

Yappi brought it up in another thread but it's definitely worth mentioning again, how does the PK pan out this year?

Bo and Steen were PK mainstays for years and that kind of proficiency isn't easily replaced. Berube mentioned Thomas being used on the PK this year so that's a new development. Anyone care to venture a guess as to what the 2 PK units look like?

That's a good question. The PP looks stronger than ever, but the PK is somewhat of a question mark heading into the season. I know they were easing Sanford in at times last year, and I guess Bozak, Sunny, Barby, ROR, Schwartz can all play PK decently well. It would be nice if Thomas, Sanford, Blais or someone else can help out as well. The 2nd D unit would be my biggest concern if you stack Scandella and Parayko on the first pair. Bortz and Gunnar are probably fine, though both won't be in the lineup every game.

I absolutely think we are a contender, but I'm hesitant to put us in the top 3. To me, Tampa and Colorado are the clear 1-2. I know some think Colorado may be overrated and yes they have big question marks, but I see them coming back hungry and motivated after recent disappointments. MacKinnon is the most dominant player in the world right now, in my opinion, and they have tons of depth surrounding him. But goaltending can make or break that team, which could also be said of the Blues.

It's tough for me to rank the teams from 3rd onward because none of that pack really jumps out to me. STL, Vegas, Washington, Philly, Carolina all have the talent to win, and if healthy, I'd put Boston and Dallas in that group. Pittsburgh and Toronto are pretty solid. Then you have teams like Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton, NYI who have a lot of talent as well. The Blues absolutely could be the best team of that pack, but there's a lot of competition in there.

 

[Eldon Reid]

It's a general sentiment that I'm referring to after losing Petro and gaining Krug. This pessimism was not there prior to his signing with Vegas. I've quoted a few people and deleted some extraneous content, but the pessimism is certainly there. There's no question about it. There's also a strong tendency to put Colorado and Vegas on a pedestal despite the fact that those teams have their own roster issues.

See my opinion has changed now too with us getting Hoffman most likely. Prior to Hoffman I was little less on the team, but Hoffman will add to PP & forward depth.

I think it Colorado & St. Louis at the top. Then Vegas & Dallas.

 

[Ranksu]

It will hard slap in to their face who voted Blues as contender when reality hits and they realize how big effect it has when there is no Pietro.

Tho I'm interested to see can those members admit they were totally wrong about this case or they fall in to excuses yet for another excuses.

 

[EastonBlues22]

It will hard slap in to their face who voted Blues as contender when reality hits and they realize how big effect it has when there is no Pietro.

Tho I'm interested to see can those members admit they were totally wrong about this case or they fall in to excuses yet for another excuses.

I think the loss of Pietrangelo is being a bit undersold by the collective majority, but I get it. It's done at this point, and focusing on that event and the fallout really changes nothing beyond, potentially, one's enthusiasm in this moment for next season.

What's wrong with building optimism in a time when many desperately need some of that in their lives?

Too much will happen between now and the end of the season to pin the results on any one thing. Blues end up being really good, or really bad? They could have been even better/worse with Pietrangelo, or not. We'll never know for sure.

I still welcome those conversations, and will probably participate, because I think they are interesting thought experiments...not because I think it's cool to play a game of "gotcha!"

 

[Linkens Mastery]

I 100% think we are a contender. Yes, we lost Pietro and it's gonna hurt. But, we still have one of the best top to bottom linesups in our division. I could see us getting knocked in round one, but I could also see us going to the finals. It all depends on how the team gels with each other and how much chemistry they have.

Hell December 2018 if I remember correctly everyone thought we were about to throw away a first round pick to Buffalo and trade players like Pietro, Schenn, and Tarasenko away to the biggest bidder.

Anything can happen.

 

[Celtic Note]

To me, right now, this has the feel of a team where its sum will potentially be less than its individual parts might suggest.

I see an forward group that could potentially be explosive, but the cost is a top 9 that is liberally sprinkled with players who are prone to defensive gaffes, or who are not known for being particularly good two way players, or who are still growing defensively (Hoffman, Perron, Schenn, Kyrou, and Tarasenko). I can see this group being aggressive, but I don't see them being good enough in the defensive zone to compensate for any defensemen defensive deficiencies. That could be alleviated by subbing in and/or moving up some of the depth players in the lineup, but at the cost of neutering some of that potential offense.

I also see a defensive group that is decidedly more vulnerable in the top 4, both in defending and in ability to transition under heavy pressure, than it previously was when the Blues won the Cup. The ROR and 4th line did a lot of heavy lifting defensively during that Cup run, but the defense covered up a lot of defensive mistakes from the other two lines, and the defense's ability to transition under heavy presssure was a big part of their ability to generate/sustain offensive momentum, not to mention to reduce some of the pressure on Binnington (relatively few extended shifts hemmed in their own zone, etc.).

That combination suggests to me that Binnington is going have a tougher task this upcoming season, as well as more pressure if the team in front of him isn't supporting him the way it did during 2019.

Bottom line, I'm just not sure the strengths of each group are as synergistic as they previously were, and I'm not sure how Berube can adapt things to alleviate that.

I don't think it's hopeless, though. Far from it.

There is a lot of forward talent to work with and a number of rather good depth role players that can be mixed in. Berube has a lot of viable combinations that he can experiment with as he attempts to find lines that synergize well internally, and with the greater whole.

Among the defensemen, there's legitimate room for hope that one or more players might step up their games in a significant way this coming year, and there's also hope that Berube can craft a system that minimizes their increased vulnerability, or that the offense ends up being explosive enough that it adequately compensates for any losses defensively, or that Binnington is such a brick wall that it doesn't even matter.

I'm not particularly optimistic myself right now, but it's not shot in the dark stuff, either.

Whatever happens, it should be an interesting year that gives us a lot of insight into the team's competitive core, Berube's tactical range as a coach, and about whether the direction Armstrong steered this team in looks to be a truly viable one.

This is basically where I stand as well.

The three biggest areas to watch are:
1- How will our players grow (or not), particularly Thomas, Kyrou, Dunn and Parayko?
2- How will Berube work with this new cast of players who don’t necessarily align with our previous model for success?
3-Can Binnington regain his top form and overcome an increase work load + decreased team defense?

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

I voted contender because I think only Tampa and Colorado look to be stronger at this point, while we are on level with Dallas and Vegas and a few others. This team has more questions and uncertainty than last years club, but also I think more talent. If things come together we absolutely can regain the Cup. If not, another 1 and done is real possibility. Can’t wait for season to start.

 

[Xerloris]

It hurts to lose Petro (skill wise, I think he is a shit person). I think most people are going to look at any deficiencies in the team as being solely because of Petro but forget this is the first real season without Jbo and Steen. Put all 3 together and that's a huge hole to fill but that hole is not caused by the loss of one single player.

 

[ItsOnlytheRiver]

I found it interesting that MoneyPuck’s preseason odds favored Minnesota over us to make the playoffs. The algorithm probably doesn’t factor in Hoffman yet.

 

[ItsOnlytheRiver]

It hurts to lose Petro (skill wise, I think he is a shit person). I think most people are going to look at any deficiencies in the team as being solely because of Petro but forget this is the first real season without Jbo and Steen. Put all 3 together and that's a huge hole to fill but that hole is not caused by the loss of one single player.

I never saw Pietrangelo do anything that would lead me to believe he was a ‘shit’ person. He was the captain of the Blues and always seemed to act honorably on and off the ice. He cashed in on one of the few chances in his career he was able to. Good for him. This should never call someone’s character into question.

edited out first sentence referencing this being a whole campaign.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

I found it interesting that MoneyPuck’s preseason odds favored Minnesota over us to make the playoffs. The algorithm probably doesn’t factor in Hoffman yet.

This model seems flawed. Not just on Minny over us, but playoff chances for most of the top teams seem way low.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

I found it interesting that MoneyPuck’s preseason odds favored Minnesota over us to make the playoffs. The algorithm probably doesn’t factor in Hoffman yet.

I don’t see the point in publishing models like this before you know the rosters. Well, I see the point, but that’s cynical economics. These numbers are a little odd in a couple places. Really loves Vegas, and we don’t know what their roster is. But if you want Vegas, I’ll take Colorado.

How are the Canucks so low? Really hates Dallas and Islanders.

I think this is probably a fatally flawed model, but I’d be interested to see it when I know it has the actual opening day rosters after cap moves.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

The smear job some posters on this website have done, and continue to do of Pietrangelo’s character is pretty surprising. I never saw Pietrangelo do anything that would lead me to believe he was a ‘shit’ person. He was the captain of the Blues and always seemed to act honorably on and off the ice. He cashed in on one of the few chances in his career he was able to. Good for him. This should never call someone’s character into question.

I’m not sure what you’re referencing, other than I’ve seen maybe one or two odd posts from known malcontents. I didn’t think acknowledging that his decision was self-serving is a smear on his character. It was a business decision on both sides. He made his choice, as was his right. If you’re referring to something else maybe you can quote the posts?

 

[ItsOnlytheRiver]

I’m not sure what you’re referencing, other than I’ve seen maybe one or two odd posts from known malcontents. I didn’t think acknowledging that his decision was self-serving is a smear on his character. It was a business decision on both sides. He made his choice, as was his right. If you’re referring to something else maybe you can quote the posts?

I don’t recall any specifics and frankly don’t really think it’s worth my time to dig for them so I will retract that part of my post.