How do you improve the Wings?

[Snuggs]

I really hope we hear some background noise soon about the Red Wings. They need help on defense and could use another good forward/center.

There are essentially what? 7-9 teams that are fighting for those last playoff spots! Red Wings aren't exactly ringleaders in this circus either they need major help imo to overcome out competing these other teams. I've seen enough of Holl/Motte/Berggren and I'd be looking for upgrades through trades and I'm not saying you can dump these guys in those trades, but you wouldn't miss them if you waived them after a trade/upgrade. (Berggren likely has some good value) I just don't really like him and think he's a floater. (just me)

I think those are three possible upgrades, in-season, that could be just marginal enough to make a difference in this TIGHT-TIGHT playoff chase / race.

 

[lilidk]

Soderblom Larkin Raymond
Debrincat Kasper Kane
Berggren Danielson Watson
Rasmussen Ficsher Veleno
Chiarot Seider
Edvinsson Petry
AJo Buium
End this season with this lineup.
Meter of time Mazur , Lombardi, MBN, ASP, Finnie will join GR.

 

[SantosHalper]

Finnie will join GR.

I think he'll be traded in WHL to a contender.

 

[Our Lady Peace]

I think he'll be traded in WHL to a contender.

WHL trade deadline has already passed, so he'll be joining GR and get a few games in probably around playoff time

 

[SirKillalot]

Can I ask what your definition of "elite" is? Based on my definition, I don't think a team exists with 4 elite forwards and 2 elite D-men so I image our definitions are different.

When I mean Elite I don't mean just franchise players, I mean difference makers who are among the better half of the league in their roles. Take 2016-2017. Penguins had Crosby, Malkin, Kessel and Guentzel. Its hard to argue that they were not elite players in the league. They also had role players in Sheary and Hornqvist. Though their defense wasn't so top on papir, and they got the best out of what they had.

Detroit in 2007-2008
Elite in Datsyuk and Zetterberg, I'd even include Franzen as he scored 27 goals. Fantastic role players in Holmstrom, Samuelsson, Cleary, could say the same for Filppula, Draper, Hudler vs. their quality of competition.
Lidstrom, Rafalski, Kronwall on defense, with Brad Stuart added as shut down d-man.

 

[Dotter]

Most definitely not. This way you mention you build a strong above average bubble team.


Here's how you build a contender:

Structure the Team​

• Top Six Forwards: 4 elite players, 2 solid role players.
• Top Nine Forwards: 3 solid top 9 forwards who can move up the lineup if necessary to be role players and who contribute offensively from the 3rd line position vs. other teams 2nd-3rd-4th lines or play opponents top line and not necessarily shut it down, but limit its production.
• Bottom Six Forwards/4th line: Focus on defensive reliability, penalty killing, and cheap contracts.
• Top Four Defensemen: At least two elite two-way defenseman and one reliable shutdown defenders as well as one offensive defenseman.
• Third-Pair Defensemen: Affordable, defensively solid players where if needed one play as 4th d-man if your offensive defenseman isn't as solid and need to play bottom pair + Power Play.
• Goaltending: 1 top-tier starter, 1 affordable backup.
• Minimum 8 top heavy players (4 forwards - 3 defensemen - 1 goalie) who run the team, preferably up towards 12-13 guys total who are among the upper half of the league in their roles (meaning another 3 forwards and 1 defenseman). Preferable one of the better backups for good caphit.

I consider elite line drivers. The guys that take over games. ala Larkin, Raymond.

I don't consider Debrincat or Kane elite. They are contributors.

Teams that have 4 "elite" forwards have major holes in other areas of their team. See Toronto.

 

[Oddbob]

Time to fire Mclellan and get that next new coach bump streak going!

We should only hire coaches that do winning streaks.

 

[SirloinUB]

Any interest in JT Miller or Ryan O'Reilly? I think those guys could plug in a legit 2C on this team.

I think both ultimately cost more than this team should pay and Miller's contract is concerning to me as he is paid until he is 37.

If we/Yzerman are serious about making playoffs either would be a huge difference maker.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Any interest in JT Miller or Ryan O'Reilly? I think those guys could plug in a legit 2C on this team.

I think both ultimately cost more than this team should pay and Miller's contract is concerning to me as he is paid until he is 37.

If we/Yzerman are serious about making playoffs either would be a huge difference maker.

Agreed about cost. And like you say 5 more years of MIller at $8 million is a lot.

O'Reilly is interesting. Either way I think Yzerman will be focused on longer term than this playoffs. But man a legit 2C and 3D would make a huge difference on this team.

The trick is somehow getting them here without selling the farm.

 

[Frk It]

Any interest in JT Miller or Ryan O'Reilly? I think those guys could plug in a legit 2C on this team.

I think both ultimately cost more than this team should pay and Miller's contract is concerning to me as he is paid until he is 37.

If we/Yzerman are serious about making playoffs either would be a huge difference maker.

For sure no to O'Reilly. I am not sure he is that much better than what we have and if you trade for him and don't make the playoffs, now you have a 33 year old guy under contract until 2027 at 4.5 mil.

J.T. Miller... I mean, maybe. But he will turn 32 in March. I don't think these guys are great fits, personally.

 

[Winger98]

Any interest in JT Miller or Ryan O'Reilly? I think those guys could plug in a legit 2C on this team.

I think both ultimately cost more than this team should pay and Miller's contract is concerning to me as he is paid until he is 37.

If we/Yzerman are serious about making playoffs either would be a huge difference maker.

yes, but not at the prices either will likely require.

 

[SirloinUB]

For sure no to O'Reilly. I am not sure he is that much better than what we have and if you trade for him and don't make the playoffs, now you have a 33 year old guy under contract until 2027 at 4.5 mil.

J.T. Miller... I mean, maybe. But he will turn 32 in March. I don't think these guys are great fits, personally.

I get your concerns. They're legit.

I would point out that O'Reilly has nearly 50% more points than Copp/Compher and much better underlying metrics while being slotted into tough matchups.

An expiring contract at 35 years old isn't much of a problem imo. I think the contract concerns are a little overblown on O'Reilly.

As @Lazlo Hollyfeld pointed out, it comes down to acquisition cost. This team shouldn't be getting into bidding wars and moving top pieces so in that sense I can see them being questionable fits.

I'd take a pretty hard look at O'Reilly.

 

[Winger98]

Agreed about cost. And like you say 5 more years of MIller at $8 million is a lot.

O'Reilly is interesting. Either way I think Yzerman will be focused on longer term than this playoffs. But man a legit 2C and 3D would make a huge difference on this team.

The trick is somehow getting them here without selling the farm.

assuming at least one of Copp/Compher is moved out to accommodate bringing in another older 2C, I think the long term play is still Danielson/Kasper in that spot. But getting a better 2C in here allows us to keep those kids on the wing when they come up and break them in easier.

I mean, we're seeing how much of a difference it makes with Kasper, imo. He looked pretty dang anemic at center on various lines. He found his offense on the wing. It's okay to slow walk centers into the position and the responsibilities of it.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

I get your concerns. They're legit.

I would point out that O'Reilly has nearly 50% more points than Copp/Compher and much better underlying metrics while being slotted into tough matchups.

An expiring contract at 35 years old isn't much of a problem imo. I think the contract concerns are a little overblown on O'Reilly.

As @Lazlo Hollyfeld pointed out, it comes down to acquisition cost. This team shouldn't be getting into bidding wars and moving top pieces so in that sense I can see them being questionable fits.

I'd take a pretty hard look at O'Reilly.

Honestly if we could somehow move Copp or Compher I'd be very interested in O'Reilly in their spot.

 

[norrisnick]

The Wings typically are so painfully slow and there are fans that are actually considering one of the few guys in the league slower than Copp/Compher...

 

[Frk It]

I get your concerns. They're legit.

I would point out that O'Reilly has nearly 50% more points than Copp/Compher and much better underlying metrics while being slotted into tough matchups.

An expiring contract at 35 years old isn't much of a problem imo. I think the contract concerns are a little overblown on O'Reilly.

As @Lazlo Hollyfeld pointed out, it comes down to acquisition cost. This team shouldn't be getting into bidding wars and moving top pieces so in that sense I can see them being questionable fits.

I'd take a pretty hard look at O'Reilly.

I could probably live with either one I’m just not sure how hard I’d pursue it.

Personally I am more interested in trading for a younger guy that could benefit from a change of scenery and grow with the rest of the young group we have.

Like Zegras, Norris, etc… those kind of guys.

I don’t think I would be that aggressive in trading for a 30+ player to add to this team. I kind of want to make the playoffs on the backs of our young guys or not at all.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Any interest in JT Miller or Ryan O'Reilly? I think those guys could plug in a legit 2C on this team.

I think both ultimately cost more than this team should pay and Miller's contract is concerning to me as he is paid until he is 37.

If we/Yzerman are serious about making playoffs either would be a huge difference maker.

Nashville is starting to play realgud again. I think they’re going to stand pat. Otherwise I’d push for ROR and Schenn and find a way to ship Compher or Copp out.

 

[TheOctopusKid]

The only way to improve this team is to trade for Tomas Tatar (because there is no one with a "Fri.." last name currently), put him on a line with Soderblom and Berggren and immediately start calling them the Value Meal Line.

 

[Winger98]

I could probably live with either one I’m just not sure how hard I’d pursue it.

Personally I am more interested in trading for a younger guy that could benefit from a change of scenery and grow with the rest of the young group we have.

Like Zegras, Norris, etc… those kind of guys.

I don’t think I would be that aggressive in trading for a 30+ player to add to this team. I kind of want to make the playoffs on the backs of our young guys or not at all.

This would probably be ideal, yeah. I'm pretty open to us trying a variety of things, tbh. I have preferences, but there's so many paths to building a team.

 

[Reddwit]

I don’t think we’ve talked enough about the absolute shit show that is our #9-13 guys and how that impacts the team.

Berggren is the only one of that group who has shown any utility in moving up and down the lineup and he’s the only one who has shown any growth this year. Rasmussen, Veleno, Fischer, and Motte provide basically nothing consistently. Sure, they’ll have a good PK here and there, some modest hits, a couple good shifts, maybe put up a point in any given game, but none of them do anything well consistently. Hell, I’m not sure that they do ANYTHING consistently. It’s not even their lack of timely production but more so that they can’t be plucked from the bench any time we need a shutdown unit, a big PK, an energy shift, or some physicality. That group is way too prone to spending shift after shift chasing the puck around the ice and doing almost no damage to the opposition, be it stealing scoring chances, laying a big hit, or shutting the other team down.

Unfortunately I don’t really trust a pro scouting department that has brought us Motte, Fischer, Stephens, ZAR, Czarnik, Kostin, et al, in an attempt to assemble a utilitarian 4th line, but at least in theory, acquiring the pieces to create a 4th line with identity should be the easiest place to make headway with this roster.

Soderblom is a step in the right direction, but I think he ends up falling into the Berggren category where he has more utility supplementing the top 9 than being a 4th line mainstay.

Personally I’d like to see us target a veteran 4th liner with identity before the seasons over to see if doing so rubs off on Veleno and Ras in any way. He doesn’t have to add scoring, but he does need to either be a reliable shutdown guy like Glendening, a ball of energy like Noel Acciari, or brings the physicality like Martin. Good teams have good 4th lines with an identity.

 

[SirloinUB]

I don’t think we’ve talked enough about the absolute shit show that is our #9-13 guys and how that impacts the team.

Berggren is the only one of that group who has shown any utility in moving up and down the lineup and he’s the only one who has shown any growth this year. Rasmussen, Veleno, Fischer, and Motte provide basically nothing consistently. Sure, they’ll have a good PK here and there, some modest hits, a couple good shifts, maybe put up a point in any given game, but none of them do anything well consistently. Hell, I’m not sure that they do ANYTHING consistently. It’s not even their lack of timely production but more so that they can’t be plucked from the bench any time we need a shutdown unit, a big PK, an energy shift, or some physicality. That group is way too prone to spending shift after shift chasing the puck around the ice and doing almost no damage to the opposition, be it stealing scoring chances, laying a big hit, or shutting the other team down.

Unfortunately I don’t really trust a pro scouting department that has brought us Motte, Fischer, Stephens, ZAR, Czarnik, Kostin, et al, in an attempt to assemble a utilitarian 4th line, but at least in theory, acquiring the pieces to create a 4th line with identity should be the easiest place to make headway with this roster.

Soderblom is a step in the right direction, but I think he ends up falling into the Berggren category where he has more utility supplementing the top 9 than being a 4th line mainstay.

Personally I’d like to see us target a veteran 4th liner with identity before the seasons over to see if doing so rubs off on Veleno and Ras in any way. He doesn’t have to add scoring, but he does need to either be a reliable shutdown guy like Glendening, a ball of energy like Noel Acciari, or brings the physicality like Martin. Good teams have good 4th lines with an identity.

I wonder if we see the Ras - Copp - Fischer line reemerge at some point. They've had some decent run in shutdown roles in the past.

I agree with your post though.

 

[schuelma24]

Not sure where else to put it, , but Bultman hada nice quote from Todd on Aljo last night saying he's been the biggest positive surprise for him on the entire roster.

“I think his rise has (been) remarkable, really — unless I underestimated him, too, and then that’s on me,” McLellan said. “But he’s played steady in all three zones, there’s some fierceness in his game. When he gets engaged with bodies and battles, he wins a lot of them. He’s not the biggest guy. So, we talk about him in the locker room all the time, we’re so happy we have him. Biggest surprise, in my mind.”

Obviously nice when the coaches comments match our eye test!

 

[saska sault]

I don’t think we’ve talked enough about the absolute shit show that is our #9-13 guys and how that impacts the team.

Berggren is the only one of that group who has shown any utility in moving up and down the lineup and he’s the only one who has shown any growth this year. Rasmussen, Veleno, Fischer, and Motte provide basically nothing consistently. Sure, they’ll have a good PK here and there, some modest hits, a couple good shifts, maybe put up a point in any given game, but none of them do anything well consistently. Hell, I’m not sure that they do ANYTHING consistently. It’s not even their lack of timely production but more so that they can’t be plucked from the bench any time we need a shutdown unit, a big PK, an energy shift, or some physicality. That group is way too prone to spending shift after shift chasing the puck around the ice and doing almost no damage to the opposition, be it stealing scoring chances, laying a big hit, or shutting the other team down.

Unfortunately I don’t really trust a pro scouting department that has brought us Motte, Fischer, Stephens, ZAR, Czarnik, Kostin, et al, in an attempt to assemble a utilitarian 4th line, but at least in theory, acquiring the pieces to create a 4th line with identity should be the easiest place to make headway with this roster.

Soderblom is a step in the right direction, but I think he ends up falling into the Berggren category where he has more utility supplementing the top 9 than being a 4th line mainstay.

Personally I’d like to see us target a veteran 4th liner with identity before the seasons over to see if doing so rubs off on Veleno and Ras in any way. He doesn’t have to add scoring, but he does need to either be a reliable shutdown guy like Glendening, a ball of energy like Noel Acciari, or brings the physicality like Martin. Good teams have good 4th lines with an identity.

Yep. Time to start giving Griffins and prospects those spots, which I think was the plan all along but our bottom 6 energy guys just really have been very unremarkable. Solderblom needs to stay in the line up at all costs.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Not sure where else to put it, , but Bultman hada nice quote from Todd on Aljo last night saying he's been the biggest positive surprise for him on the entire roster.




Obviously nice when the coaches comments match our eye test!

Early on in his stint with the Wings I thought he looked fairly unremarkable. A cheap bottom pairing guy. But I'm happy to be wrong!

 

[norrisnick]

Early on in his stint with the Wings I thought he looked fairly unremarkable. A cheap bottom pairing guy. But I'm happy to be wrong!

I think it's pretty obvious that Lalonde had a lot of players scared shitless of making mistakes. It's easier to play when you can relax. Todd has said it a few times now for young players, "making mistakes is ok, we'll help you."