How do you fix the Wings?

[JediOrderPizza]

This isn't a video game, Markstrom is a lot better than Lyon. Almost everything suggests that.

Can't wait to see how much better we'll be next year with the 15th selection.

I didn't say Lyon was better than Markstrom. I was comparing what Markstrom had with their defense (Hanifin, Weegar and Andersson) and what Lyon had with our defense.

I question how much it really matters to add a #10-20 goalie without addressing the bigger issue in my mind. The defense.

 

[Snuggs]

I didn't say Lyon was better than Markstrom. I was comparing what Markstrom had with their defense (Hanifin, Weegar and Andersson) and what Lyon had with our defense.

I question how much it really matters to add a #10-20 goalie without addressing the bigger issue in my mind. The defense.

Got you, all's I can say back to that is trading for Markstrom doesn't in anyways stop Yzerman from addressing the defense.

Not trading for him leaves you much less desirable options now at goalie. (Unless Cossa just wins the job outright.)

The pick or some trade can still be made throughout the summer to make me forget this totally. Just thought it was a good price if you're a team attempting to make/crack the playoffs.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

No snob in this question.

Are Red Wings better with Markstrom or better with Roy(ufa signing)?

People, many, many people seem to suggest Roy is the guy that'll fix everything on defense. So, I'm just wondering, player vs player who actually makes this team better overall.

* Could have had our cake and eaten it too(trading for Markstrom/signing Roy as aUFA.)

If the parameters are;
- Markstrom at 4.25m x 2 years at a cost of a late 20251st plus depth dman prospect(NJ trade), or
- Roy at 5 to 6m x 4 to 6 years signed as a free agent(current estimates)

That's tough...

 

[JediOrderPizza]

Got you, all's I can say back to that is trading for Markstrom doesn't in anyways stop Yzerman from addressing the defense.

Not trading for him leaves you much less desirable options now at goalie. (Unless Cossa just wins the job outright.)

The pick or some trade can still be made throughout the summer to make me forget this totally. Just thought it was a good price if you're a team attempting to make/crack the playoffs.

I do wonder how that trade looks for the wings and how much someone like Roy gets. Calgary retained 1.875mil, I assume for us we would need them to take Husso in the trade. Does that make the cost go up? I honestly don't know.

Free agency has me a bit hesistant because we already have some bad contracts, you don't fix anything being a scared GM but it would really suck to get anchored with another bad one. I imagine Roy at least gets 5 years.

 

[19 for president]

No snob in this question.

Are Red Wings better with Markstrom or better with Roy(ufa signing)?

People, many, many people seem to suggest Roy is the guy that'll fix everything on defense. So, I'm just wondering, player vs player who actually makes this team better overall.

* Could have had our cake and eaten it too(trading for Markstrom/signing Roy as aUFA.)

I get where you are coming from as goalies typically have more impact than a single dman but I still lean Roy because at 29 I have more faith that he has 3-5 years left of solid play than any goalie at 34. If I had to choose one.

I wouldn't have minded Markstrom as a gamble but I feel like Jersey paid more than a gambling price. At 34 you can't really know if last year was an off year or the beginning of the late career fall off and giving up a 1st for that seems very risky. Few goalies in this day an age are successful into their twilight seasons and usually they are elite guys like Lundqvist.

I agree that banking on a Husso/Lyon tandem is asking for trouble as I don't think Lyon can take a full starters load and Husso has been a mess outside of his 1st half season with the Wings.

If I'm giving up a 1st for a goalie I'd prefer to do Ullmark or Saros but I'd even lean Gibson over Markstrom. If I losing assets to bring in a goalie I want one that will solidify the position until Cossa/Augustine can take over. I just don't have confidence in a non elite goalie at age 34.

 

[Snuggs]

Saros would be a great get.

People that are worried about cost will not like it though. Cost some assets plus a big contract. At lest 5 x 8 imo.

Recent Report suggests Nashville Predators could Trade Juuse Saros this offseason

The start of the NHL offseason is inching closer and closer and closer, and we are now less than two weeks from the start of free agency, and ten days from the

predlines.com

 

[Ed Ned and Leddy]

Saros would be a great get.

People that are worried about cost will not like it though. Cost some assets plus a big contract. At lest 5 x 8 imo.

Recent Report suggests Nashville Predators could Trade Juuse Saros this offseason

The start of the NHL offseason is inching closer and closer and closer, and we are now less than two weeks from the start of free agency, and ten days from the

predlines.com

Honestly, I think some team will give Sarros like 7x8. And if it’s not Nashville then they’ll have to spend real assets to bring him in on top.

If we had nothing in the pipeline I’d be all for it. With our goalie prospects, I don’t think we’re the ideal fit.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Honestly, I think some team will give Sarros like 7x8. And if it’s not Nashville then they’ll have to spend real assets to bring him in on top.

If we had nothing in the pipeline I’d be all for it. With our goalie prospects, I don’t think we’re the ideal fit.

I'm kind of at the point where I wouldn't be mad if Cossa got a look at the beginning of the year. I'm not liking a lot of the trade targets for goalies out there right now.

 

[Our Lady Peace]

I'd love Saros, I just dunno what the cost to get him would be. He's in the right spot, and has a legit 60+ game track record with remarkable play

Contract wise I'd pay around 8m/year for him with term

Trade wise, Nashville clearly has plans for Askarov so I'm not sure we'd even have to be pressed to trade Augustine or Cossa the other way. The thing is, Cossa seems quite close and for that reason I thought a guy like Markstrom would have been the perfect, cheaper $$$ + asset option for us since he's up after June 2026

I'm not ready at all to try and run it back with another mediocre, unproven goaltender. Not unless our defense is Vegas-caliber

 

[19 for president]

Saros would be a great get.

People that are worried about cost will not like it though. Cost some assets plus a big contract. At lest 5 x 8 imo.

Recent Report suggests Nashville Predators could Trade Juuse Saros this offseason

The start of the NHL offseason is inching closer and closer and closer, and we are now less than two weeks from the start of free agency, and ten days from the

predlines.com

Yeah this is the issue with Ullmark and Saros. They are both gonna want long term deals and the Wings have already invested a 1st and 2nd into goaltending (and both prospects are doing well). At best we are probably looking at a Markstrom esque return in 3-4 seasons if Cossa looks ready to take over. At worst we'd end up with an anchor contract.

Gibson probably fits our timeline the best, but obviously has not been great with a really poor Anh team. I do have more faith him bouncing back with a better team just do to him being 30 vs Markstrom's 34. His 3 more years would probably be a perfect transition to Cossa with Cossa backing up next year and then taking over in the 3rd season.

If we are giving up assets to get a meh non long term goalies then Stevie has to be all in about moving contracts and fixing this team both for now and in the future. You have to bring in at least a top 4 dman and a top 6 forward. Get creative in moving out Holl, Maata, Husso, Fabbri etc to create the cap space needed. Maybe even figure out a way to deal a guy like Copp. If you spend assets on short term players then it has to be playoffs or bust next season.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Yeah this is the issue with Ullmark and Saros. They are both gonna want long term deals and the Wings have already invested a 1st and 2nd into goaltending (and both prospects are doing well). At best we are probably looking at a Markstrom esque return in 3-4 seasons if Cossa looks ready to take over. At worst we'd end up with an anchor contract.

Gibson probably fits our timeline the best, but obviously has not been great with a really poor Anh team. I do have more faith him bouncing back with a better team just do to him being 30 vs Markstrom's 34. His 3 more years would probably be a perfect transition to Cossa with Cossa backing up next year and then taking over in the 3rd season.

If we are giving up assets to get a meh non long term goalies then Stevie has to be all in about moving contracts and fixing this team both for now and in the future. You have to bring in at least a top 4 dman and a top 6 forward. Get creative in moving out Holl, Maata, Husso, Fabbri etc to create the cap space needed. Maybe even figure out a way to deal a guy like Copp. If you spend assets on short term players then it has to be playoffs or bust next season.

Agreed

Markstrom was the best fit in terms of skill, size, contract and timeline

Next up would possibly be Gustavsson in Minnesota followed by Gibson

Saros and Ullmark are best goalies w/o question, but, neither is short term commitment which is all we need

 

[jkutswings]

DeBrincat - Larkin - Necas
Ehlers - Rasmussen - Raymond
Fabbri - Compher - Berggren
Perron - Copp - Fischer
---------------------------
Czarnik
(Kasper, Danielson, Mazur)

Chiarot - Seider
Edvinsson - Petry
Johansson - Holl
-------------------
(Wallinder) - Rafferty

775k minimum salary Brogan Rafferty travels with team as 7th D, but won't play. If there's an injury, Wallinder will be called to play.

Husso
Lyon
(Cossa)

Neither Necas nor Ehlers play defense. That lineup would give up 4 goals per game and finish bottom half of the league for sure, maybe bottom ten.

Giving up assets for either Ullmark or Saros and a decent defenseman would provide a much bigger improvement via reduction in GAA.

 

[jkutswings]

Yeah this is the issue with Ullmark and Saros. They are both gonna want long term deals and the Wings have already invested a 1st and 2nd into goaltending (and both prospects are doing well). At best we are probably looking at a Markstrom esque return in 3-4 seasons if Cossa looks ready to take over. At worst we'd end up with an anchor contract.

Ullmark is 30. Giving him a 4-5 year deal is perfectly fine and doesn't mess anything up:
* He's 1A and Lyon 1B for 2 years
* Lyon fades out as Cossa eases in
* Ullmark is the backup to Cossa for 1-2 years

 

[brett89]

i wouldnt mind seeing chychrun. our datsyuk pick

 

[Winger98]

Saros would be a great get.

People that are worried about cost will not like it though. Cost some assets plus a big contract. At lest 5 x 8 imo.

Recent Report suggests Nashville Predators could Trade Juuse Saros this offseason

The start of the NHL offseason is inching closer and closer and closer, and we are now less than two weeks from the start of free agency, and ten days from the

predlines.com

If we're dealing a 1st for a goalie, Saros would be a good one to get but only if we can ink him to a reasonable deal. The talk above about Markstrom vs Roy misses the point a bit, imo. I wouldn't deal a 1st for Roy, either. But if we can sign Roy, swing a smaller deal for a guy like Gibson, we can still use that first in a package for a new LD to pair with Seider.

Saros changes it a bit just because I think he's a legit upgrade over Markstrom in nearly every sense, though I really wouldn't like an 8 year deal.

 

[Roomba With a Bauer]

Any move the Wings make is pointless if they don't address goaltending. That may require biting the bullet and buying out Husso.

 

[Ed Ned and Leddy]

I'm kind of at the point where I wouldn't be mad if Cossa got a look at the beginning of the year. I'm not liking a lot of the trade targets for goalies out there right now.

I definitely get the temptation. Personally I’d play things out with Lyon and Husso, even though I’m sober about how rocky that could potentially get. I just don’t want to risk putting Cossa in a spot like Levi this year where you kinda jerk him around. I think he made good strides in the AHL this year, I think another year will help too. Don’t necessarily expect the numbers to rocket up, but I think he’ll continue to make physical gains in a less demanding schedule the NHL, and it seems like the rapport he has with his coach has been really valuable too.

There’s no real way we as fans will know, but brass is probably having frank conversations with the medical team about how realistic it is that we get say 25-30 games outta Husso this year. If he can get there, I think the current combo can probably float us through this season. Otherwise, we will need a third goalie on deck.

Glad to see you’re coming around on Sebustian tho

 

[Pavels Dog]

Any move the Wings make is pointless if they don't address goaltending. That may require biting the bullet and buying out Husso.

Early market indications are that much worse contracts are moveable.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Early market indications are that much worse contracts are moveable.

There are a limited number of teams that can actually do that though, so the quicker they take on those contacts the more restrictive that market becomes would be the other warning though.

It does make sense with the cap up that a few of the bad teams are ready to do more of it this summer.

I remain a big proponent of going to get Gibson. He is a guy that reliably starts a decent amount of games, sure he has spiraled with a bad Anaheim team, but I think he can be the right mentor to Cossa. He understands being a highly celebrated goalie prospect and I do think he can find more of his old game on a better team. He is my preference, he also gets us pretty easily to the Cossa and Augustine tandem days we hope for in my opinion. Husso has to go out to make that happen though.

 

[19 for president]

Early market indications are that much worse contracts are moveable.

In his case buying Husso out may be the better option because his buyout hit is so low for this and next season. We'd probably have to take on a similar bad contract back or retain salary to trade him.

Holl is the guy we really need to try to avoid buying out if at all possible so we don't have an Abdelkader like buyout on the books for ages.

 

[Henkka]

They will not buy Husso out. That's nonsense.

His bad level has always been connected to injuries.

A) If he is healthy he will play and he will play at good level.
B) if he is not healthy, LTIR is the way, and no buyout idiotism needed.

 

[jkutswings]

They will not buy Husso out. That's nonsense.

His bad level has always been connected to injuries.

A) If he is healthy he will play and he will play at good level.
B) if he is not healthy, LTIR is the way, and no buyout idiotism needed.

The problem is that Detroit has not had a goaltender able to retain the starting role for a full season, let alone multiple years. Husso could be ready to roll for October and play well for a month or two, but his track record indicates that he won't hold up for the entire year.

So maybe Detroit doesn't HAVE to add a guy now. But I don't see them making it through the year, and I don't see them having a better chance of adding somebody once the season begins.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

They will not buy Husso out. That's nonsense.

His bad level has always been connected to injuries.

A) If he is healthy he will play and he will play at good level.
B) if he is not healthy, LTIR is the way, and no buyout idiotism needed.

Part of being good is the ability to not always be hurt...

Husso can not be relied upon to be a #1 goalie on a team looking to make the playoffs.. he has not provided acceptable NHL goaltending in over 18 months..

Time to move on

 

[DTR]

My opinion is that based on expected regression from our offense that the only way to maintain our momentum this year is with very good goaltending. I don’t think anyone can look at Hussso/Lyon tandem and think it’s realistic for them to provide very good goaltending

 

[19 for president]

The problem is that Detroit has not had a goaltender able to retain the starting role for a full season, let alone multiple years. Husso could be ready to roll for October and play well for a month or two, but his track record indicates that he won't hold up for the entire year.

So maybe Detroit doesn't HAVE to add a guy now. But I don't see them making it through the year, and I don't see them having a better chance of adding somebody once the season begins.

If Stevie goes for an upgrade I expect Husso to be bought out unless they can convince him to take the year on LTIR. He makes too much to be a start on LTIR and then figure out a way to work him in later kind of guy. Especially after what happened last season with the 1 partial game and then back on IR. Having a guy that has only been able to stay healthy for a few months of the past 2 years is very risky when your playoff hopes are hinging on him. Lyon cannot play 60+ games.

I agree with JK that your chance for a goalie upgrade is much higher in the offseason. If we are going to upgrade at goal then it makes the most sense to just cut ties with Husso. We can't afford to have 10-15 million tied into goaltending. We need that cap space for forward and D.