How do you fix the Wings?

[Oddbob]

Careful now friend - last time I suggested a trade w/Calgary I was nearly kicked off Red Wing Island...Tough crowd in here

Yeah, weren't you the one who wanted to trade a 1st for a 40 pt player? If you were the one wanting Mangiapane for 15 then you deserved flak.

Markstrom was lights out last yr. But the problem with him is his age and that he'd be a stopgap till our 2 prospects are ready. And our team is a serious contender in 2 years EARLIEST. Prob later. I'd move #15 for him if the timeline lined up better. But I don't see it, dude. So the price is too much for a guy that backstops us while we are a first rd out at best. We are just bot there yet to give up assets for short term fixes.

How is .905 sv% lights out? Lyon had a .904 and no one thought he was lights out.

 

[Oddbob]

Maatta was pretty bad with the puck this season, pinched in at weird times, and took shots that were easily blocked. I liked the way he played the previous season much more. He's also kinda slow.

Not saying Chiarot's puck decisions are great by any means, but Maatta was def worse.

Chiarot is infinitely worse with the puck than Maatta. Chiarot lugs it over the blueline thinking he is Bobby Orr and then lobs/passes it to absolutely no one about 75% of the time, with the other team then getting it and back to our zone we go. When playing with Seider he almost never even looks to pass to Seider the actual defender with skill and makes passes to much more covered players.

Then Chiarot needs to stop LARPing as a dog chasing a squirrel all over the zone and stay put.

Shhh, he thinks he is Bobby Orr.

 

[Oddbob]

Chiarot is the exact type of player you want on a playoff team. He’s not afraid to throw around his weight and plays a mean game.

People here like to use him as the scapegoat for all defensive flaws this team has. Chiarot serves best as a 4/5 in a shutdown role.

If the roster is ass and has him playing top 2 minutes, that’s not the players fault. Blame poor coaching/roster management.

Thought he was also one of the better players on the team through the last month of the season. Prone for 1-2 bad plays a game, but even with that being said, thought he brought a lot more positives than negatives.

Disagree. Chiarot should be no higher than 3rd pair and 15-17 minutes a night. He also needs to play to his ability which is stay at home/physical defender, not trying to rush the puck or make plays as nothing about his skillset suggests he can do that or should do that. If he played 3rd pair and was about a mil less cap hit I would have no issue with him.

 

[RRhoads]

Chiarot is infinitely worse with the puck than Maatta. Chiarot lugs it over the blueline thinking he is Bobby Orr and then lobs/passes it to absolutely no one about 75% of the time

And Maatta? His two goto moves are wide shots from an angle that kills the momentum with the puck going back to our zone, or a shot that is blocked that leads to a rush the other way. Strongly disagree that Maatta is better than Chiarot.

 

[Winged Wheel Willy]

Yeah, weren't you the one who wanted to trade a 1st for a 40 pt player? If you were the one wanting Mangiapane for 15 then you deserved flak.



How is .905 sv% lights out? Lyon had a .904 and no one thought he was lights out.

Cuz he was arguably behind the worst defense and had close to, if not the highest SV% against high danger chances. Quality of shots matters here. Flames were bleeding prime time opportunities every game. Lyon behind that defense would prob have been like .890.

 

[DoMakc]

Cuz he was arguably behind the worst defense and had close to, if not the highest SV% against high danger chances. Quality of shots matters here. Flames were bleeding prime time opportunities every game. Lyon behind that defense would prob have been like .890.

Well, from Red Wings perspective i don't see an argument where their defense was any better

 

[jkutswings]

Well, from Red Wings perspective i don't see an argument where their defense was any better

To be fair, it's possible to compare two defenses that are essentially the same (say, equally bad), but if one team has a harder schedule, they could surrender more high danger chances. Let alone if you have two defenses that are both bad but for different reasons (one gives up 50 so-so chances a night, while the other allows half a dozen 3-on-1's per game).

 

[Americanadian]

Prospective wings fan here coming in peace. From my outside POV it looks like the wings needs to pull off a Karlsson-esque trade where they dump a bunch of bad contracts disguised as a questionable move for an impact player. Pitt dumped Rutta, Petry and Granlund in the Karlsson deal and it only cost them 1 first along with taking Karlsson back (with retention).

I’d be looking at something like Fabbri+Holl+Maatta+ for Norris. Local kid who can fill the 2C role if he hits. In the short term the wings clear cap space.

 

[NickH8]

Prospective wings fan here coming in peace. From my outside POV it looks like the wings needs to pull off a Karlsson-esque trade where they dump a bunch of bad contracts disguised as a questionable move for an impact player. Pitt dumped Rutta, Petry and Granlund in the Karlsson deal and it only cost them 1 first along with taking Karlsson back (with retention).

I’d be looking at something like Fabbri+Holl+Maatta+ for Norris. Local kid who can fill the 2C role if he hits. In the short term the wings clear cap space.

The Sens are poorly run but not THAT poorly run. No chance they take that deal.

 

[jkutswings]

The Sens are poorly run but not THAT poorly run. No chance they take that deal.

I'm not sure it's a good deal for either team. Norris has another six years at $8M AAV. If the kid can't stay healthy, that's a long time to pay out that kinda cash.

 

[Ezekial]

How is .905 sv% lights out? Lyon had a .904 and no one thought he was lights out.

You don't get it, Markstrom was playing goalie like he was in the dark and couldn't see the puck.

 

[Americanadian]

The Sens are poorly run but not THAT poorly run. No chance they take that deal.

It depends if you view Norris as a positive asset or not. If I was the sens I’d move off that money for free.

 

[Retire91]

I think a lot of these ideas would be good to explore after the prospects hit. We are still in a development first phase of the rebuild.

Edvinsson hasn't played a full season, Cossa, Danielson, ASP all showing pretty brilliant development and do not look far off. Try to account for Yzerman being in a "wait and see" mode before signing high level commitment contracts. If the above players land in the next season or two it will have astronomical impact on our standings.

 

[raymond23]

Trade our first for an impact player around Larkin’s age. I feel like it makes too much sense and it isn’t discussed around her enough

Of course it depends on who’s available. But I see names like Buchnevich and Theodore discussed and that’s an easy yes for me

I don’t even care if we have to pay them. Pay them, please.

 

[19 for president]

The Sens are poorly run but not THAT poorly run. No chance they take that deal.

The Sens are also not in the same position as SJ was when they made that deal. To do a deal like that you have to have a team that knows they are going to be bad for probably the next 3 seasons minimum.

Sens should have been better than they were last year. A better comparison would us trading for Johnny G from CLB for that package (which is gross lol).

 

[NickH8]

Apparently Ehlers is being shoped and Winnipeg needs D help. Could be a fit there. He has some issues disappearing in the playoffs but I'd like to get there before we worry about that.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Apparently Ehlers is being shoped and Winnipeg needs D help. Could be a fit there. He has some issues disappearing in the playoffs but I'd like to get there before we worry about that.

Buium + Berggren + Holl, let’s go

 

[norrisnick]

I don't understand the willingness to trade a flawed young prospect for an older more expensive flawed player. Just let the young guy be flawed at a much lower cost (asset or cap-wise).

 

[Frk It]

I don't understand the willingness to trade a flawed young prospect for an older more expensive flawed player. Just let the young guy be flawed at a much lower cost (asset or cap-wise).

If we are to assume you are talking about Ehlers and Berggren, which it would be nice to include specifics here....

I'd say it is pretty unlikely that Berggren becomes a .76 ppg in the NHL. At Berggren's current age, Berggren had already put up two 60 point seasons in the league.

Also Berggren has always had very very good possession metrics, through his whole career.

You really need to apply some nuance to these player comparisons you make.

 

[norrisnick]

If we are to assume you are talking about Ehlers and Berggren, which it would be nice to include specifics here....

I'd say it is pretty unlikely that Berggren becomes a .76 ppg in the NHL. At Berggren's current age, Berggren had already put up two 60 point seasons in the league.

Also Berggren has always had very very good possession metrics, through his whole career.

You really need to apply some nuance to these player comparisons you make.

Toss him on a top line and Burgers can score 60 too. He'll have the same flaws dozens of other scoring line forwards have. Like Ehlers for one...

 

[Frk It]

Toss him on a top line and Burgers can score 60 too. He'll have the same flaws dozens of other scoring line forwards have.

Well, we will find out our answer to if Berggren is actually capable of that soon here. Some of you guys might just be disappointed.

 

[norrisnick]

Well, we will find out our answer to if Berggren is actually capable of that soon here. Some of you guys might just be disappointed.

We know he's capable now. Put him on a scoring line and he can score. It's not rocket science.

Hockey is the only sport where coaches demand a kid fill a role he's not suited for in order to prove themselves worthy of a roster spot. The NBA doesn't have centers play point guard.

Or maybe it's just the Wings...

 

[Frk It]

We know he's capable now. Put him on a scoring line and he can score. It's not rocket science.

We know that he can score in the AHL. We also know that Detroit thought he only deserved to play 12 games at the NHL level last year.

 

[norrisnick]

We know that he can score in the AHL. We also know that Detroit thought he only deserved to play 12 games at the NHL level last year.

And Detroit also thinks Chiarot is worthy of the top pairing and Petry of the 2nd. And that Lyon should sit for two months before getting a game in. And that Ed wasn't ready until injuries forced their hands.

Appeals to authority when the authorities are f***ing up left right and center is a bit silly.

 

[Frk It]

And Detroit also thinks Chiarot is worthy of the top pairing and Petry of the 2nd. And that Lyon should sit for two months before getting a game in. And that Ed wasn't ready until injuries forced their hands.

Appeals to authority when the authorities are f***ing up left right and center is a bit silly.

I think the odds of Berggren being able to match the on-ice product of Ehlers despite playing a similar style game is very low.

I get that Berggren is cheap and you can plug him in and hope for the best. But I would much rather flip him for a proven commodity like Ehlers. If you want to make the hope play, I get it. I am just not as optimistic as you are it would work out so well. If it did I would not be mad. Would prefer to have cheap homegrown productive players, if possible. I just think it's more likely that Berggren is still spending this much time in the AHL at 23 because he's not as good as people think as opposed to better than everyone thinks. And same thing with Johansson. But again, we will find out soon enough.