How do you fix the Wings?

norrisnick

The best...
Apr 14, 2005
31,429
16,860
I've been playing around on cap friendly trying to make space to land a legit offense creator in the top 6 (whether it's re-signing Kane or another UFA). Starting to wonder about if it's worth making cap space to land a top 4 defenseman and a goalie upgrade instead. We don't have the cap or roster space to bring in upgrades at all three positions, so I think I'd rather rotate Berggren/Danielson/Mazur/Kasper through on the second line with the odds that one should be a fit.

I'm not excited about any of the goalie trades out there though. Sounds like Markstrom will take a first - which we shouldn't be giving up for a goalie his age right now - and Gibson might be worth it only if his value has dipped. Otherwise look for someone on a cheaper contract to make a true tandem with Lyon. Ingram/Vejmelka?
Acquiring a 2nd pair RD to play with Ed is definitely the play. Matt Roy seems to be tailor made for the job. Late 20s, Michigan-born, right-handed, defensively-oriented. 2nd pairing capable.

Chiarot - Holl or Maatta - Petry or Chiarot - Petry are fine 3rd pairings. Pick one, and scrap the rest. AlJo can rotate in or if he outplays a vet the vet can sit. Things get goofy if Walman gets traded. Not sure what happened towards the end of the season, but I don't think all of it was injury related. I honestly wouldn't mind them trying Olli with Mo if Walman is no longer in the top pairing picture. Or Ed and then Olli on pairing #2. Whatevs.
 

Petes2424

Registered User
Aug 4, 2005
8,527
3,365
Rather than “Fix” anything, they need to keep moving forward. Last year for example, they acquired all those Dmen to make sure they had NHL players every night. This year it’ll be the next step. We’re already hearing the Maatta speculation, and we can imagine we’ll hear it with Walman and Holl too.

The next step is “fine tuning the roster” some. So when the kids start coming up 1 by 1, there’s somewhat of a strategy.

Let’s start with the blue line.

They really are only guaranteeing spots to Seider, Chiarot, Edvinsson and Petry.

That’s their Top 4 today, as it was at season’s end. They’ll be looking to add two very good players to play in their Top 4, and have Chiarot and Petry be their bottom pairing.

Let’s get the Jake Walman thing out of the way. It’s hard to argue he wasn’t atrocious most of the season, and when he returned from his injury April 1, let’s just say it wasn’t Lalonde’s decision to stop him from returning to the Top 4. When Lalonde then scratched Maatta and put him on the bottom pairing, it didn’t take a period before it was obvious Maatta was gonna be the better option for the season’s duration, and Lalonde wasn’t gonna put his job on the line by continuing to force Walman into the lineup. That was a good decision and should’ve been made in January.

Walman was benched. That’s just the truth of it. Seider just couldn’t continue to spend half of his ice time, chasing down Walman’s unforced errors. He went back to being exactly what he was before he came to Detroit, and they just couldn’t afford to have him playing such important minutes anymore.

He’s NOT in their plans. If he somehow remains on the roster, it’ll be because they couldn’t make some things happen this summer, but he’ll be a bottom pairing or scratched Dman, until he earns his way back into the rotation.

So they’re gonna try parting ways with Maatta, Walman and Holl, and that shouldn’t be too difficult. Even Holl can likely be traded. Worse case they buy him out, or retain a million, but they’ll be able to get rid of him too. Walman will have some value because of the way he played his contract year. My guess is, he’s included in a trade for a dman or goalie, but we’ll have to wait and see.

Hearing Maatta could be headed to Utah for one of their 3rd Rd picks btw, and will likely be the first of the 3 to go, because they know they’ll get something in return, and he has no trade protection. Obviously they have to be careful not to dump all 3 before they are able to get the guys they want. So just know, if their plans come together on the blue line, those 3 will be gone.

Gostisbehere will be resigned “IF” he doesn’t get a big deal somewhere else “AND” if they don’t fine tune BOTH spots in their Top 4 via trade/UFA.

Right now Johansson is likely penciled in as their 6/7 and he will split time with Petry the most. Exactly why he’s been playing the right side almost exclusively (in GR) lately. Don’t be surprised if they try his speed and smarts, playing some with Seider too, depending on what happens this summer.

They’re going to try again, to trade for a Top 4 dman, and we’ll get to that, but their #1 target on defense this summer, looks like it’ll be Matt Roy from the Kings.

Go figure, another Detroit kid, who grew up playing for Victory Honda and wants to come home.. If he’s brought in, it’ll be to be Edvinsson’s partner moving forward. He’s the perfect partner for him too. He can carry a pairing, but he knows what he is. A great role playing Dman in the Top 4. Makes the right play consistently, and has proven he can play Top 4 minutes for a few years now. He’s been the Kings #3 for the past several years. But, if they do need him to carry that 3rd pairing, he can do it as well.

If he makes it to July 1, he’ll be the target. Maybe even beforehand, in a trade to secure his rights. He will be heavily sought after, but looks like he wants to come to Detroit. Don’t think they’ll overpay for him though. So we shall see, but good bet Matt Roy ends up in Detroit.

So basically they’ll be…

Open/Seider
Edvinsson/Roy
Chiarot/Petry (Johansson)

Now comes the wildcard. Still hearing they want to hammer down their Top 4 for the next 5 years at least. That it’s their goal to have a legit Top 4, penciled in for 4-5 years. No more Walman fiascos, or relying so much on a Petry. Chiarot can do it with Seider, as he showed the last 20 games, but they’d prefer him and Petry being their bottom pairing.

Who’s available via trade?? More than likely Shea Theodore will be the big prize at the draft. Would they trade the 15th pick in a deal for him? I bet they would quite easily. It will cost more than that, but that pick is in play for a dman or goalie.

So you’d have..

Theodore/Seider
Edvinsson/Roy
Chiarot/Petry (Johansson)

That not only becomes a pretty formidable D-Core overnight, the goal will also be… to have vets start falling off the roster every year, to be replaced by another one of their youngsters. Next year Petry, then Chiarot, and so on.

They can also always move Roy or Theodore around too. They’ve both played both sides quite a bit over the years. If ASP or Gibson is so good they demand to be in the Top 4, Roy can move down for example.

If they CAN’T get a Dman via trade, or even signing a second UFA to a short term deal, then they’ll likely bring Ghost back. If they sign him before July 1, that means they don’t see a trade coming together. Ghost did play very well during a stretch early in the season with Seider. So that’s an option, but if Ghost is that 6th Dman, good bet they’ll keep Chiarot with Seider, as they ended the season, and Ghost will play with Petry and Johansson.

Moving forward though, that’s what they’ll try doing. To fine tune their roster, and make it easier to have kids coming up, but always having those Top 4 players over the next 5 years. No more experiments like Jake Walman in one of those spots.

How would a trade for Theodore work? 15th overall, Wallinder, Walman. Something like that. Could they keep the 15th and still get Theodore? Sure.

One other thing of note. Don’t be surprised if Yzerman goes big on a goaltender this summer. With Augustine and Cossa approaching their push towards the NHL, he’s not gonna play games in net anymore. I’d almost bet, Markstrom, Saros or Gibson is their starting goaltender next year. No more hoping signings work out. They’re gonna have to secure a legit goalie.

So it’s time for the fine tuning, to take that next step in the standings, as the kids start making their way onto the roster. Much like Dallas did. Good bet Mazur and Danielson or Kasper is on the opening night roster. Think Berggren will be somewhere else next season. Be surprised if he’s still a Red Wing.

Up front, I’m not sure they’re signing Kane or not. I got nothing from nobody on that. If he wants 3 years, I think they have to walk away, and that was the speculation recently.. I do think they’ll talk to Stamkos, Lindholm, Stephenson and Monahan. Could see them sign Marchessault or another wing if Kane leaves, but the one guy who makes the most sense up front? Like it or not, it’s probably Sean Monahan. Only if it’s cost effective though. There’s gonna be plenty of options to do some things this summer, but they will be careful knowing Danielson and Kasper are developing like they are.

Have heard Rasmussen could be in play. First time I’ve ever heard anyone speculate on that. Not that they’re down on him, but seen how they played without him down the stretch, and if they can use him to get a goaltender or a Shea Theodore, that he’d likely be available now.

So first things first. Slam dunk the blue line and the net. Forwards are a dime a dozen really. Much easier to go get whenever you need one. Yzerman is gonna have to be aggressive. Not only to get players, but to get rid of some as well.

Big off-season coming.
 

Gniwder

Registered User
Oct 12, 2009
15,196
8,349
Bellingham, WA
Acquiring a 2nd pair RD to play with Ed is definitely the play. Matt Roy seems to be tailor made for the job. Late 20s, Michigan-born, right-handed, defensively-oriented. 2nd pairing capable.

Chiarot - Holl or Maatta - Petry or Chiarot - Petry are fine 3rd pairings. Pick one, and scrap the rest. AlJo can rotate in or if he outplays a vet the vet can sit. Things get goofy if Walman gets traded. Not sure what happened towards the end of the season, but I don't think all of it was injury related. I honestly wouldn't mind them trying Olli with Mo if Walman is no longer in the top pairing picture. Or Ed and then Olli on pairing #2. Whatevs.

Projected 5 x $6M makes me cringe a bit, but we need more Michigan boys, lol.
 

DoMakc

Registered User
Jun 28, 2006
1,558
694
Rather than “Fix” anything, they need to keep moving forward. Last year for example, they acquired all those Dmen to make sure they had NHL players every night. This year it’ll be the next step. We’re already hearing the Maatta speculation, and we can imagine we’ll hear it with Walman and Holl too.

The next step is “fine tuning the roster” some. So when the kids start coming up 1 by 1, there’s somewhat of a strategy.

Let’s start with the blue line.

They really are only guaranteeing spots to Seider, Chiarot, Edvinsson and Petry.

That’s their Top 4 today, as it was at season’s end. They’ll be looking to add two very good players to play in their Top 4, and have Chiarot and Petry be their bottom pairing.

Let’s get the Jake Walman thing out of the way. It’s hard to argue he wasn’t atrocious most of the season, and when he returned from his injury April 1, let’s just say it wasn’t Lalonde’s decision to stop him from returning to the Top 4. When Lalonde then scratched Maatta and put him on the bottom pairing, it didn’t take a period before it was obvious Maatta was gonna be the better option for the season’s duration, and Lalonde wasn’t gonna put his job on the line by continuing to force Walman into the lineup. That was a good decision and should’ve been made in January.

Walman was benched. That’s just the truth of it. Seider just couldn’t continue to spend half of his ice time, chasing down Walman’s unforced errors. He went back to being exactly what he was before he came to Detroit, and they just couldn’t afford to have him playing such important minutes anymore.

He’s NOT in their plans. If he somehow remains on the roster, it’ll be because they couldn’t make some things happen this summer, but he’ll be a bottom pairing or scratched Dman, until he earns his way back into the rotation.

So they’re gonna try parting ways with Maatta, Walman and Holl, and that shouldn’t be too difficult. Even Holl can likely be traded. Worse case they buy him out, or retain a million, but they’ll be able to get rid of him too. Walman will have some value because of the way he played his contract year. My guess is, he’s included in a trade for a dman or goalie, but we’ll have to wait and see.

Hearing Maatta could be headed to Utah for one of their 3rd Rd picks btw, and will likely be the first of the 3 to go, because they know they’ll get something in return, and he has no trade protection. Obviously they have to be careful not to dump all 3 before they are able to get the guys they want. So just know, if their plans come together on the blue line, those 3 will be gone.

Gostisbehere will be resigned “IF” he doesn’t get a big deal somewhere else “AND” if they don’t fine tune BOTH spots in their Top 4 via trade/UFA.

Right now Johansson is likely penciled in as their 6/7 and he will split time with Petry the most. Exactly why he’s been playing the right side almost exclusively (in GR) lately. Don’t be surprised if they try his speed and smarts, playing some with Seider too, depending on what happens this summer.

They’re going to try again, to trade for a Top 4 dman, and we’ll get to that, but their #1 target on defense this summer, looks like it’ll be Matt Roy from the Kings.

Go figure, another Detroit kid, who grew up playing for Victory Honda and wants to come home.. If he’s brought in, it’ll be to be Edvinsson’s partner moving forward. He’s the perfect partner for him too. He can carry a pairing, but he knows what he is. A great role playing Dman in the Top 4. Makes the right play consistently, and has proven he can play Top 4 minutes for a few years now. He’s been the Kings #3 for the past several years. But, if they do need him to carry that 3rd pairing, he can do it as well.

If he makes it to July 1, he’ll be the target. Maybe even beforehand, in a trade to secure his rights. He will be heavily sought after, but looks like he wants to come to Detroit. Don’t think they’ll overpay for him though. So we shall see, but good bet Matt Roy ends up in Detroit.

So basically they’ll be…

Open/Seider
Edvinsson/Roy
Chiarot/Petry (Johansson)

Now comes the wildcard. Still hearing they want to hammer down their Top 4 for the next 5 years at least. That it’s their goal to have a legit Top 4, penciled in for 4-5 years. No more Walman fiascos, or relying so much on a Petry. Chiarot can do it with Seider, as he showed the last 20 games, but they’d prefer him and Petry being their bottom pairing.

Who’s available via trade?? More than likely Shea Theodore will be the big prize at the draft. Would they trade the 15th pick in a deal for him? I bet they would quite easily. It will cost more than that, but that pick is in play for a dman or goalie.

So you’d have..

Theodore/Seider
Edvinsson/Roy
Chiarot/Petry (Johansson)

That not only becomes a pretty formidable D-Core overnight, the goal will also be… to have vets start falling off the roster every year, to be replaced by another one of their youngsters. Next year Petry, then Chiarot, and so on.

They can also always move Roy or Theodore around too. They’ve both played both sides quite a bit over the years. If ASP or Gibson is so good they demand to be in the Top 4, Roy can move down for example.

If they CAN’T get a Dman via trade, or even signing a second UFA to a short term deal, then they’ll likely bring Ghost back. If they sign him before July 1, that means they don’t see a trade coming together. Ghost did play very well during a stretch early in the season with Seider. So that’s an option, but if Ghost is that 6th Dman, good bet they’ll keep Chiarot with Seider, as they ended the season, and Ghost will play with Petry and Johansson.

Moving forward though, that’s what they’ll try doing. To fine tune their roster, and make it easier to have kids coming up, but always having those Top 4 players over the next 5 years. No more experiments like Jake Walman in one of those spots.

How would a trade for Theodore work? 15th overall, Wallinder, Walman. Something like that. Could they keep the 15th and still get Theodore? Sure.

One other thing of note. Don’t be surprised if Yzerman goes big on a goaltender this summer. With Augustine and Cossa approaching their push towards the NHL, he’s not gonna play games in net anymore. I’d almost bet, Markstrom, Saros or Gibson is their starting goaltender next year. No more hoping signings work out. They’re gonna have to secure a legit goalie.

So it’s time for the fine tuning, to take that next step in the standings, as the kids start making their way onto the roster. Much like Dallas did. Good bet Mazur and Danielson or Kasper is on the opening night roster. Think Berggren will be somewhere else next season. Be surprised if he’s still a Red Wing.

Up front, I’m not sure they’re signing Kane or not. I got nothing from nobody on that. If he wants 3 years, I think they have to walk away, and that was the speculation recently.. I do think they’ll talk to Stamkos, Lindholm, Stephenson and Monahan. Could see them sign Marchessault or another wing if Kane leaves, but the one guy who makes the most sense up front? Like it or not, it’s probably Sean Monahan. Only if it’s cost effective though. There’s gonna be plenty of options to do some things this summer, but they will be careful knowing Danielson and Kasper are developing like they are.

Have heard Rasmussen could be in play. First time I’ve ever heard anyone speculate on that. Not that they’re down on him, but seen how they played without him down the stretch, and if they can use him to get a goaltender or a Shea Theodore, that he’d likely be available now.

So first things first. Slam dunk the blue line and the net. Forwards are a dime a dozen really. Much easier to go get whenever you need one. Yzerman is gonna have to be aggressive. Not only to get players, but to get rid of some as well.

Big off-season coming.

It is disturbing, if they really think Gostisbehere > Walman. Walman was not perfect, but he was thrown to wolves the same way, Seider was. Contrary to Seider he did not handle it well, but stating that Ghost who was rather not good on 3rd pair in sheltered minutes should be preferred to Walman is rather fireable offense from my perspective. Their assessment of defensemen play is rather questionable with two major blunders in Chiarot and Holl, and decision to keep Edvinsson down can be counted as a third one. At least Roy signing would be encouraging.

I don't mind upgrading Walman, though i don't understand where all that cap space will come from in order to pay 22-23 mil to Seider/Theodore/Roy long-term with Edvinsson up for extension in 2 years - Theodore has only one year left on his team-friendly contract.

I also disagree with a notion that forwards are dime a dozen - they cannot afford playing turnover prone and defensively inpet entities like Fabbri and Sprong, if they want to run Lalonde's system there they are atacking as a unit and defensemen are asked to activate a lot, which i actually liked.

Everybody likes to have an upgrade at goalie, it is not what cost them last season, it is inability to defend as a unit. Do they have enough resources and cap space to upgrade on defense, replace Kane (means sign a top line forward) and upgrade in goal. If not I'd rather upgrade a team defense given, they have two very good goalie prospects in the pipeline.
 

jkutswings

hot piss hockey
Jul 10, 2014
11,606
9,680
It is disturbing, if they really think Gostisbehere > Walman. Walman was not perfect, but he was thrown to wolves the same way, Seider was. Contrary to Seider he did not handle it well, but stating that Ghost who was rather not good on 3rd pair in sheltered minutes should be preferred to Walman is rather fireable offense from my perspective. Their assessment of defensemen play is rather questionable with two major blunders in Chiarot and Holl, and decision to keep Edvinsson down can be counted as a third one. At least Roy signing would be encouraging.

I don't mind upgrading Walman, though i don't understand where all that cap space will come from in order to pay 22-23 mil to Seider/Theodore/Roy long-term with Edvinsson up for extension in 2 years - Theodore has only one year left on his team-friendly contract.

I also disagree with a notion that forwards are dime a dozen - they cannot afford playing turnover prone and defensively inpet entities like Fabbri and Sprong, if they want to run Lalonde's system there they are atacking as a unit and defensemen are asked to activate a lot, which i actually liked.

Everybody likes to have an upgrade at goalie, it is not what cost them last season, it is inability to defend as a unit. Do they have enough resources and cap space to upgrade on defense, replace Kane (means sign a top line forward) and upgrade in goal. If not I'd rather upgrade a team defense given, they have two very good goalie prospects in the pipeline.
This was my take as well. Lots of good detail, and I hope Detroit is active this summer. But if Walman is possibly on the outs for bad defense, how can they even consider bringing back Ghost? He was a turnstile for half the year.
 

Snuggs

Registered User
Jun 24, 2018
2,781
1,414
Lots of words/detail but I'm not sure this team turns into a defensive stall-wart worth of playoff contention with just Matt Roy/Albert Johansson brought on up on defense.

Not the worst idea bringing in both Roy/Gostisbehere in so Gost can play top PP minutes and last pair 5on5 ice time. (Many times last year, especially early, he was a top 2 pair defender)

People are just way, way too ok with acting like the offense on this team will be alright and the defense is the only problem. Everything is a problem, people hate Gostisbehere and can't even suggest an acceptable replace for his impact on the power play with a good option. You guys act like they're chess pieces we can just put anyone out and they'll perform.

Without major moves, both offensive/defensive, they'll be way behind the team they were this year. Replacing Kane/Sprong/Gostisbehere's production will be hard. Harder if they count on young players/rookies to replace them. I like the acknowledging that Yzerman will have to be aggressive, both way, getting players and getting rid of some players(Holl/Husso)

As for Walman, he is defensively a bit of a liability but offensively he's not even close to Gostisbehere with the puck, he's got a good shot, inaccurate but hard, and very average at everything else. Maata would be the guy I perfer to move. I definitely don't hate either, good not great players, but just useful enough to move if Yzerman feels like the defense is jammed up and wants other options/players.


Posted this on April 20th.

Red Wings trade LHD Ollie Maata, F Robby Fabbri, F Marco Kasper, RFA Jonatan Berggren, 1st round pick.
Ducks trade F Trevor Zegras and the Ducks 3rd round pick. ( Saves 1.5 million )


Red Wings resign RHD Moritz Seider to a 8 year contract worth 64 million, 8 million per year.
Red Wings resign F Lucas Raymond to a 8 year contract worth 64 million, 8 million per year.
Red Wings sign F Sean Monahan to a 4 year contract worth 20 million, 5 million per year.
Red Wings sign RHD Matt Roy to a 4 year contract worth 14 million, 3.5 million per year.
Red Wings resign F Christian Fischer to a 2 year contract worth 2.25 million, 1.125 million per year.
Red Wings sign F Liam O’Brien to a 1 year minimum contract.
Red Wings resign F Austin Czarnik to a 1 year minimum contract.

Trevor Zegras – (C) Dylan Larkin – Lucas Raymond
Alex DeBrincat – Sean MonahanNate Danielson
Michael Rasmussen – J.T. Compher – Carter Mazur
Christian Fischer
– (A) Andrew Copp – Liam O’Brien

* Austin Czarnik

Jake Walman – Mortiz Seider
Simon Edvinsson – Matt Roy
(A) Ben Chiarot – Jeff Petry

* Justin Holl *(Possible waive/buyout)*

Alex Lyon
Sebastian Cossa
Ville Husso *(Possible LTIR)*

Maybe I'm about to be hired! ;)
 
Last edited:

HisNoodliness

Safe is death
Jun 29, 2014
3,967
2,499
Toronto
Rather than “Fix” anything, they need to keep moving forward. Last year for example, they acquired all those Dmen to make sure they had NHL players every night. This year it’ll be the next step. We’re already hearing the Maatta speculation, and we can imagine we’ll hear it with Walman and Holl too.

The next step is “fine tuning the roster” some. So when the kids start coming up 1 by 1, there’s somewhat of a strategy.

Let’s start with the blue line.

They really are only guaranteeing spots to Seider, Chiarot, Edvinsson and Petry.

That’s their Top 4 today, as it was at season’s end. They’ll be looking to add two very good players to play in their Top 4, and have Chiarot and Petry be their bottom pairing.

Let’s get the Jake Walman thing out of the way. It’s hard to argue he wasn’t atrocious most of the season, and when he returned from his injury April 1, let’s just say it wasn’t Lalonde’s decision to stop him from returning to the Top 4. When Lalonde then scratched Maatta and put him on the bottom pairing, it didn’t take a period before it was obvious Maatta was gonna be the better option for the season’s duration, and Lalonde wasn’t gonna put his job on the line by continuing to force Walman into the lineup. That was a good decision and should’ve been made in January.

Walman was benched. That’s just the truth of it. Seider just couldn’t continue to spend half of his ice time, chasing down Walman’s unforced errors. He went back to being exactly what he was before he came to Detroit, and they just couldn’t afford to have him playing such important minutes anymore.

He’s NOT in their plans. If he somehow remains on the roster, it’ll be because they couldn’t make some things happen this summer, but he’ll be a bottom pairing or scratched Dman, until he earns his way back into the rotation.

So they’re gonna try parting ways with Maatta, Walman and Holl, and that shouldn’t be too difficult. Even Holl can likely be traded. Worse case they buy him out, or retain a million, but they’ll be able to get rid of him too. Walman will have some value because of the way he played his contract year. My guess is, he’s included in a trade for a dman or goalie, but we’ll have to wait and see.

Hearing Maatta could be headed to Utah for one of their 3rd Rd picks btw, and will likely be the first of the 3 to go, because they know they’ll get something in return, and he has no trade protection. Obviously they have to be careful not to dump all 3 before they are able to get the guys they want. So just know, if their plans come together on the blue line, those 3 will be gone.

Gostisbehere will be resigned “IF” he doesn’t get a big deal somewhere else “AND” if they don’t fine tune BOTH spots in their Top 4 via trade/UFA.

Right now Johansson is likely penciled in as their 6/7 and he will split time with Petry the most. Exactly why he’s been playing the right side almost exclusively (in GR) lately. Don’t be surprised if they try his speed and smarts, playing some with Seider too, depending on what happens this summer.

They’re going to try again, to trade for a Top 4 dman, and we’ll get to that, but their #1 target on defense this summer, looks like it’ll be Matt Roy from the Kings.

Go figure, another Detroit kid, who grew up playing for Victory Honda and wants to come home.. If he’s brought in, it’ll be to be Edvinsson’s partner moving forward. He’s the perfect partner for him too. He can carry a pairing, but he knows what he is. A great role playing Dman in the Top 4. Makes the right play consistently, and has proven he can play Top 4 minutes for a few years now. He’s been the Kings #3 for the past several years. But, if they do need him to carry that 3rd pairing, he can do it as well.

If he makes it to July 1, he’ll be the target. Maybe even beforehand, in a trade to secure his rights. He will be heavily sought after, but looks like he wants to come to Detroit. Don’t think they’ll overpay for him though. So we shall see, but good bet Matt Roy ends up in Detroit.

So basically they’ll be…

Open/Seider
Edvinsson/Roy
Chiarot/Petry (Johansson)

Now comes the wildcard. Still hearing they want to hammer down their Top 4 for the next 5 years at least. That it’s their goal to have a legit Top 4, penciled in for 4-5 years. No more Walman fiascos, or relying so much on a Petry. Chiarot can do it with Seider, as he showed the last 20 games, but they’d prefer him and Petry being their bottom pairing.

Who’s available via trade?? More than likely Shea Theodore will be the big prize at the draft. Would they trade the 15th pick in a deal for him? I bet they would quite easily. It will cost more than that, but that pick is in play for a dman or goalie.

So you’d have..

Theodore/Seider
Edvinsson/Roy
Chiarot/Petry (Johansson)

That not only becomes a pretty formidable D-Core overnight, the goal will also be… to have vets start falling off the roster every year, to be replaced by another one of their youngsters. Next year Petry, then Chiarot, and so on.

They can also always move Roy or Theodore around too. They’ve both played both sides quite a bit over the years. If ASP or Gibson is so good they demand to be in the Top 4, Roy can move down for example.

If they CAN’T get a Dman via trade, or even signing a second UFA to a short term deal, then they’ll likely bring Ghost back. If they sign him before July 1, that means they don’t see a trade coming together. Ghost did play very well during a stretch early in the season with Seider. So that’s an option, but if Ghost is that 6th Dman, good bet they’ll keep Chiarot with Seider, as they ended the season, and Ghost will play with Petry and Johansson.

Moving forward though, that’s what they’ll try doing. To fine tune their roster, and make it easier to have kids coming up, but always having those Top 4 players over the next 5 years. No more experiments like Jake Walman in one of those spots.

How would a trade for Theodore work? 15th overall, Wallinder, Walman. Something like that. Could they keep the 15th and still get Theodore? Sure.

One other thing of note. Don’t be surprised if Yzerman goes big on a goaltender this summer. With Augustine and Cossa approaching their push towards the NHL, he’s not gonna play games in net anymore. I’d almost bet, Markstrom, Saros or Gibson is their starting goaltender next year. No more hoping signings work out. They’re gonna have to secure a legit goalie.

So it’s time for the fine tuning, to take that next step in the standings, as the kids start making their way onto the roster. Much like Dallas did. Good bet Mazur and Danielson or Kasper is on the opening night roster. Think Berggren will be somewhere else next season. Be surprised if he’s still a Red Wing.

Up front, I’m not sure they’re signing Kane or not. I got nothing from nobody on that. If he wants 3 years, I think they have to walk away, and that was the speculation recently.. I do think they’ll talk to Stamkos, Lindholm, Stephenson and Monahan. Could see them sign Marchessault or another wing if Kane leaves, but the one guy who makes the most sense up front? Like it or not, it’s probably Sean Monahan. Only if it’s cost effective though. There’s gonna be plenty of options to do some things this summer, but they will be careful knowing Danielson and Kasper are developing like they are.

Have heard Rasmussen could be in play. First time I’ve ever heard anyone speculate on that. Not that they’re down on him, but seen how they played without him down the stretch, and if they can use him to get a goaltender or a Shea Theodore, that he’d likely be available now.

So first things first. Slam dunk the blue line and the net. Forwards are a dime a dozen really. Much easier to go get whenever you need one. Yzerman is gonna have to be aggressive. Not only to get players, but to get rid of some as well.

Big off-season coming.
Am I to understand that you think Petry and Chiarot are better than Walman? I don't think there's a single skill, hockey or otherwise, for which that is true. I'm pretty sure that Walman does a better job calling Jeff's Mom on Mother's Day than Petry does.
 
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FLAMESFAN

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Feb 27, 2002
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Hey guys. I think the Flames & Wings are good dance partners this offseason. You guys have a couple studs to sign and a few less desirable contracts, as well as a need to upgrade your goalie

Doubt the Flames keep Markstrom, and they have the ability to take on 1 or 2 bad contracts. We also have a few wingers that you guys could use that will be UFA after next year in Mangi, Kuz & Sharon

So, what would it take to get #15 off you guys for Markstrom?
 
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Frk It

Mo Seider Less Problems
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Hey guys. I think the Flames & Wings are good dance partners this offseason. You guys have a couple studs to sign and a few less desirable contracts, as well as a need to upgrade your goalie

Doubt the Flames keep Markstrom, and they have the ability to take on 1 or 2 bad contracts. We also have a few wingers that you guys could use that will be UFA after next year in Mangi, Kuz & Sharon

So, what would it take to get #15 off you guys for Markstrom?
Why the hell do people think a 34 year old goalie who has posted a .892 and .905 over the last 2 seasons is going to get a first? (Not trying to single you out here, I have seen this posted in multiple other threads on here, FWIW)

(Unless the Flames are adding something else notable) If the Wings do a deal that includes the #15 pick for Jacob Markstrom, I will be beyond pissed. And I don't even love this draft class that much. That's just a stupid trade in my eyes.
 
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ricky0034

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Jun 8, 2010
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Why the hell do people think a 34 year old goalie who has posted a .892 and .905 over the last 2 seasons is going to get a first? (Not trying to single you out here, I have seen this posted in multiple other threads on here, FWIW)

If the Wings do a deal that includes the #15 pick for Jacob Markstrom, I will be beyond pissed. And I don't even love this draft class that much. That's just a stupid trade in my eyes.

yeah I don't love the idea of trading that pick for a Goalie in general so I still wouldn't really like it personally speaking but the Wings need to be looking at guys like Saros or Ullmark if they want to move that much for one
 

FLAMESFAN

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Not gonna argue with you guys on your board, but Markstrom is undeniably a very good goalie with the ability to steal games his team has no shot in winning. He'd be a great tutor to your young goalies trying to break into the league.
 

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Mo Seider Less Problems
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Not gonna argue with you guys on your board, but Markstrom is undeniably a very good goalie with the ability to steal games his team has no shot in winning. He'd be a great tutor to your young goalies trying to break into the league.
Undeniably a very good goalie? I mean 3 years ago he was. If it was 2022 and he was coming off that season and we were talking about trading a first for him, that would make sense.

He is now a 34 year old goalie who has had 2 seasons in row essentially hovering around .900.

Plus last viewing we got of Markstrom was when we played y'all 2/17 and won 5-0 and he let in 4 goals on 12 shots.

I think you guys are stuck in the past with how you are valuating him.
 
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FLAMESFAN

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Undeniably a very good goalie? I mean 3 years ago he was. If it was 2022 and he was coming off that season and we were talking about trading a first for him, that would make sense.

He is now a 34 year old goalie who has had 2 seasons in row essentially hovering around .900.

Plus last viewing we got of Markstrom was when we played y'all 2/17 and won 5-0 and he let in 4 goals on 12 shots.

I think you guys are stuck in the past with how you are valuating him.
He was arguably our MVP this year and was the main reason we were in a WC race.
Also I'm not suggesting its Markstrom for 15 straight up. Retention &/or dump added could be part of the deal.
 

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Mo Seider Less Problems
Jul 27, 2010
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He was arguably our MVP this year and was the main reason we were in a WC race.
Also I'm not suggesting its Markstrom for 15 straight up. Retention &/or dump added could be part of the deal.
If there is another at least decent piece in the mix, it could make sense.

What do you have in mind would be in the package?
 

FLAMESFAN

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If there is another at least decent piece in the mix, it could make sense.

What do you have in mind would be in the package?
I would think you guys would want to move on from a few contracts that you currently have. Copp, Fabbri, etc. I don't know their roles enough to know if any of them would have neg value.
As I said in my original post guys like Mangi, Kuz, Sharongovich, and possibly Coleman could be available too.
 

lilidk

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Mar 4, 2008
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Reading this board makes me wonder, why do we want Walman and Maatta out so much. Those two have some trading value, so? Holl clearly has confidence issue , no wonder , came from Toronto. This team has too many defensive liability like Kane, Raymond, Debrincat, Fabbri, Sprong and Berggren. Couple of those guys should be gone before season starts . Fischer and Perron should be with team , for right price of course.
 

norrisnick

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It is disturbing, if they really think Gostisbehere > Walman. Walman was not perfect, but he was thrown to wolves the same way, Seider was. Contrary to Seider he did not handle it well, but stating that Ghost who was rather not good on 3rd pair in sheltered minutes should be preferred to Walman is rather fireable offense from my perspective. Their assessment of defensemen play is rather questionable with two major blunders in Chiarot and Holl, and decision to keep Edvinsson down can be counted as a third one. At least Roy signing would be encouraging.

I don't mind upgrading Walman, though i don't understand where all that cap space will come from in order to pay 22-23 mil to Seider/Theodore/Roy long-term with Edvinsson up for extension in 2 years - Theodore has only one year left on his team-friendly contract.

I also disagree with a notion that forwards are dime a dozen - they cannot afford playing turnover prone and defensively inpet entities like Fabbri and Sprong, if they want to run Lalonde's system there they are atacking as a unit and defensemen are asked to activate a lot, which i actually liked.

Everybody likes to have an upgrade at goalie, it is not what cost them last season, it is inability to defend as a unit. Do they have enough resources and cap space to upgrade on defense, replace Kane (means sign a top line forward) and upgrade in goal. If not I'd rather upgrade a team defense given, they have two very good goalie prospects in the pipeline.
Yeah... that whole post is alarming more than anything. Like, one or two moments of clarity and a whole shitload of wtf you can't be serious with these player evals?

I really hope Maatta isn't on the block purely because he's the easiest to move. I'd rather package a pick with say Chiarot than get a pick to move Olli but still have Chiarot. Keep the better player. That goes triply so for Walman over Ghost. Don't like Walman on the top pairing? That's fine. He's still better deeper in the lineup than a guy you have to bury on the 3rd and he's still garbage defensively.

And for those that clamor "oh noes, we need Ghost for the PP and offensive production!!" Both on the PP and at ES the Wings score more when Mo is running things than when Ghost is running things. Shore up the ES pairings (ie keep ChiaPet out of the top 4) and Mo can absorb the offensive minutes easily enough. And it's not like Ed is devoid of offensive ability either. It's not worth keeping a defensive disaster around when capable defensemen can run the PP.
 

WestlakeWingFan

Registered User
May 10, 2024
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Hey guys. I think the Flames & Wings are good dance partners this offseason. You guys have a couple studs to sign and a few less desirable contracts, as well as a need to upgrade your goalie

Doubt the Flames keep Markstrom, and they have the ability to take on 1 or 2 bad contracts. We also have a few wingers that you guys could use that will be UFA after next year in Mangi, Kuz & Sharon

So, what would it take to get #15 off you guys for Markstrom?
Is Rasmus Anderson available to include in the package? Something like #15/Wallinder for Markstrom/Anderson.
 
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19 for president

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I think on defense there is a level of sunk cost. Chiarot was a lot better last year but he's more of a 4/5 than a 2/3 and that means with his years left he is going to be a harder contract to move without holding onto money. If you have to hold on to a bunch of money to trade him it probably doesn't make sense to do it. As a bottom pair anchor eating a lot of pk minutes he is a pretty good player.

Dealing Petry doesn't make sense because he only has 1 year left. He also has an NMC. On top of that even his buyout wouldn't help a ton because you are getting minimal cap space. It makes more sense to have him split 6/7 duties with Aljo. If Aljo outplays him he can be that good vet voice in the locker room and work with our 3 young d at practice.

Maata makes the most sense to move because he has no trade restrictions, played decent if not great last year, and only has a year left. He is the guy that we are least likely to have to retain cap on to move. If our effort to clear cap space he makes the most sense on D.

Holl is another guy that needs to get moved but I question who wants a 3 mil 6th dman. I think we are looking at a buyout here, which is not ideal but with all of our young dmen coming up, he is unlikely to get the playing time to make that contract justifiable.

Walman is an interesting one. I don't think he is in the Wings plans long term. He is also not an ideal top pairing dman. If they could upgrade him, I don't think they'd be against it but I also could see them giving him another shot with Mo and hoping he has a better season.

I could see them doing a dzone/ozone split with Mo where Walman goes if they are in the Ozone and Chia goes in the Dzone. This would be combined with the idea that Mo's pairing wouldn't take every single hard defensive zone start.

I see getting that #3/4 guy to pair with Ed as the number 1 need this off season. Roy and Pesce look like solid UFA prospects. Theadore would also be great if we have the pieces to land him.
 

19 for president

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The effort should not be to clear cap space. The effort should be to assemble the best group of 6 defensemen available to us. There is no measure apart from what's easiest, where it makes sense to move Maatta and then end up keeping Chiarot, Petry, Holl.

If you are looking at it in the vacuum of clearing space to clear space I agree but if your plan is to bring in at least 1 if not 2 top 4 dmen then that is a little different.

I personally think Chiarot is the best of the 4. So we slot him into the #5 role. I also think he'd be the hardest to move because of contract length/money. Then you have 3 guys that I would agree that Maata is probably the best of, but is the one that is the most moveable. Holl would be the ideal but if you move him you like either have to hold onto money or buy him out, so you may not be clearing enough cap space to bring in that top 4 dman. Petry makes the least and their is say a 50/50 chance Aljo comes in and takes that 6th spot so now I sort of want the cheapest guy as my 7th dman. In that case Petry also makes the most sense to keep. Move out Maata (most tradeable, freeing up the most cap sapce) and dealing w/ retention or buying out Holl (worst player).
 

norrisnick

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If you are looking at it in the vacuum of clearing space to clear space I agree but if your plan is to bring in at least 1 if not 2 top 4 dmen then that is a little different.

I personally think Chiarot is the best of the 4. So we slot him into the #5 role. I also think he'd be the hardest to move because of contract length/money. Then you have 3 guys that I would agree that Maata is probably the best of, but is the one that is the most moveable. Holl would be the ideal but if you move him you like either have to hold onto money or buy him out, so you may not be clearing enough cap space to bring in that top 4 dman. Petry makes the least and their is say a 50/50 chance Aljo comes in and takes that 6th spot so now I sort of want the cheapest guy as my 7th dman. In that case Petry also makes the most sense to keep. Move out Maata (most tradeable, freeing up the most cap sapce) and dealing w/ retention or buying out Holl (worst player).
I firmly disagree with that assessment. Maatta has the ability to stabilize a pairing. Chiarot needs someone to stabilize him. I'm fine keeping them both, but being more mobile doesn't make you better by default. Chiarot would improve defensively if he skated a bit less to be quite honest.

Like, I would greatly prefer Maatta on the top pairing with Mo. Just stay in your lane and let Mo do his thing.

Maatta - Mo
Ed - XXXX (let's hope for Roy here)
Chiarot - AlJo/Petry

Whatever is done, ChiaPet need to be no higher than the 3rd pairing. Getting ourselves in a situation where either plays more than a partial game in our top 4 and we're no better off than last season.
 
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FLAMESFAN

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Is Rasmus Anderson available to include in the package? Something like #15/Wallinder for Markstrom/Anderson.
I personally wouldn't want to trade Anderson, he's all situation guy and on a great contract.
But some fans think he should be on the market too. Your proposal is a tough one for me because I'd hope we could get more. I just don't really know what Wallinder becomes.
Also creates a pretty big hole for us in the top 4D.
 

norrisnick

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I personally wouldn't want to trade Anderson, he's all situation guy and on a great contract.
But some fans think he should be on the market too. Your proposal is a tough one for me because I'd hope we could get more. I just don't really know what Wallinder becomes.
Also creates a pretty big hole for us in the top 4D.
How 'bout a Holl to fill that hole? Eh?
 
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