How Close in Talent Will Team USA be to Team Canada at Next International Meeting With NHLERS?

[McGuillicuddy]

The US in the last 2 MR games against Canada lost
by a goal in each game. IMO the talent differential
now is less than it was in 2014.

To be fair, the 1-0 game in Sochi was the most lopsided 1-0 game I have ever seen. The box score doesn't tell the story. Despite showing 31 shots the US at no point felt like they were in danger of scoring. It was a defensive masterpiece.

 

[Gold Standard]

pretty close. I know it would be one hell of a 8 game Summit Series in 2022. If there isn't going to be a NHL Olympics, we need to see this border clash happen in Sept. 2022.

 

[KillerMillerTime]

To be fair, the 1-0 game in Sochi was the most lopsided 1-0 game I have ever seen. The box score doesn't tell the story. Despite showing 31 shots the US at no point felt like they were in danger of scoring. It was a defensive masterpiece.

The USSR dominated in like fashion in 1980 but they lost.

Yes, Canada dominated that game also, but they still
scored just once. Jack Parker said sometimes hockey
should be called goalie. A pretty accurate assessment
of the sport IMO.

There were 3 legit scoring chances
for the US, not zero. Kessel had one the first or second shift of the game coming down right wing with no one
impeding him that Price made a good positional save on.

Later in the same period, I think John Carlson literally
came down Broadway with what was probably their best SO in the game. Somehow the shot ended up in
the crowd.

In the third period the US had a PP during which
Patrick Kane feathered a pass to Zach Parise at the post
that either bounced over Parise stick or Parise didn't
finish on. They were all quality chances but I don't think
there were really any others.

You won't get an argument from me that Canada absolutely deserved the win and would be favorites
in 2022, but its not like Canada could play well and not lose.

Why I said its not Canada's to lose. Something as
simple as a bad call or an inadvertent high stick
drawing blood could be the difference.

Just look to The Hlinka summer of 2018. A US B Team
in reality outscored Canada's A team in Canada in 60 minutes of hockey. Was that US Team better? No, but games like that tell me lots of things can happen.

 

[jj cale]

For me.. the biggest edge Canada has is 'clutch'. They seem to have so many 3rd period comebacks in games they look like they're out of.. it's uncanny. I think they did it one of the Junior A/U17 challenges recently. Did at U20 last week. I"m sure every country has a great story of scoring late and winning but Canada, at least it feels like, does it a lot. If my team had a 2 goal lead late in the third I wouldn't feel comfortable at all and would probably need to leave the room.lol

I often wonder if that goes back to the deeper talent pool. Eg. how on earth do you rise up and crack the Top 6 for Canada? You have to be better than everyone from the age of 5. Probably the biggest difference between a great hockey player and an elite one is more mental than physical.

Canada has a pretty solid record with comebacks for sure, although there has been some devastating blown games also. The Swiss game at the last WHC was a typical pulled one out of the hat with a second left stuff too but I am not sure what accounts for it all. A deeper talent pool may explain some of it but I think it's a mix of tradition of not giving up that plays a part but It can vary from team to team not just with Canada but with all the teams.

I mean Canada has a winning mentality in hockey, Forsberg openly talked about that in an interview about 2 years back.

 

[KillerMillerTime]

Canada has a pretty solid record with comebacks for sure, although there has been some devastating blown games also. The Swiss game at the last WHC was a typical pulled one out of the hat with a second left stuff too but I am not sure what accounts for it all. A deeper talent pool may explain some of it but I think it's a mix of tradition of not giving up that plays a part but It can vary from team to team not just with Canada but with all the teams.

I mean Canada has a winning mentality in hockey, Forsberg openly talked about that in an interview about 2 years back.

Canada looks like they will remain favorites for the
foreseeable future but not a prohibitive one.
Things can change with the sports participant
pool that you don't expect.

If you had told me in say 1974 that there wouldn't
be more than 2 All Star game caliber white
US basketball players, I would have said absolutely
impossible. However, thats what has happened.

 

[jj cale]

Canada looks like they will remain favorites for the
foreseeable future but not a prohibitive one.
Things can change with the sports participant
pool that you don't expect.

If you had told me in say 1974 that there wouldn't
be more than 2 All Star game caliber white
US basketball players, I would have said absolutely
impossible. However, thats what has happened.

Yep, things change. I mean, speaking of basketball, I suspect U.S hegemony will be challenged coming up in the not too distant future and I think Canada will be one of if not the main challenger.

 

[Peiskos]

How can it be closer than ever before when USA has already won a best-on-best tournament and did so by defeating Canada in the finals twice in a best of three?

Lol what? You’re speaking as if this is recent/relevant information. The tournament you’re describing took place 24 years ago in 1996. It’s an entirely different game now with an entirely new generation.

Canada has won 5 best vs best tournaments since then (2002, 2004, 2010, 2014, 2016) US has won 0 since then.

 

[Big Phil]

There still isn't the depth with Team USA as there is for Canada. Right now you've got Matthews and Eichel who are the top American centres in the NHL. Nothing wrong with that, although as a Leaf fan I am as skeptical as anyone when it comes to seeing how Matthews performs in the clutch. However, compare that to the top two centres Canada has in McDavid and MacKinnon (Crosby too although I thought I'd mention someone younger) and Canada has the edge. Plus whoever would be on their 3rd and 4th lines would be better than any American on those lines. An injury goes down and Canada can insert someone like Seguin. Or Stamkos or whoever else is a bubble player. Right now you've got a guy like Stamkos who might be considered on the fence to make the team (although I'd put him on there). What other country has a player who just had a 98 point season a year ago as a bubble player on their roster?

 

[Peiskos]

The USSR dominated in like fashion in 1980 but they lost.

Yes, Canada dominated that game also, but they still
scored just once. Jack Parker said sometimes hockey
should be called goalie. A pretty accurate assessment
of the sport IMO.

There were 3 legit scoring chances
for the US, not zero. Kessel had one the first or second shift of the game coming down right wing with no one
impeding him that Price made a good positional save on.

Later in the same period, I think John Carlson literally
came down Broadway with what was probably their best SO in the game. Somehow the shot ended up in
the crowd.

In the third period the US had a PP during which
Patrick Kane feathered a pass to Zach Parise at the post
that either bounced over Parise stick or Parise didn't
finish on. They were all quality chances but I don't think
there were really any others.

You won't get an argument from me that Canada absolutely deserved the win and would be favorites
in 2022, but its not like Canada could play well and not lose.

Why I said its not Canada's to lose. Something as
simple as a bad call or an inadvertent high stick
drawing blood could be the difference.

Just look to The Hlinka summer of 2018. A US B Team
in reality outscored Canada's A team in Canada in 60 minutes of hockey. Was that US Team better? No, but games like that tell me lots of things can happen.

Canada 2014 Sochi was a defence first team, they were coached specifically to keep the puck out of the net as their #1 priority, its why that team was the lowest scoring Canadian gold medal winner in our Olympic History with just 17 goals for.

On the flip side it was the most defensively dominant gold winner in modern Olympic history, surrendering just 3 goals against all tournament. I seriously think they were challenged by the coaches and management to not surrender a single goal all tournament. Everything about that team was by design so I wouldn't look too much into the 1-0 score over the US.

Canada also only beat Norway 3-1 and Latvia 2-1, which is only further proof that it was a coaching system that kept them such a low scoring team, with any other ordinary playing style Canada would have beaten Norway and Latvia by 6+ goals.

 

[KillerMillerTime]

Lol what? You’re speaking as if this is recent/relevant information. The tournament you’re describing took place 24 years ago in 1996. It’s an entirely different game now with an entirely new generation.

Canada has won 5 best vs best tournaments since then (2002, 2004, 2010, 2014, 2016) US has won 0 since then.

Senior men, yes. Senior women hell no, or are you
sexist?

Juniors, hell no again. 2013 WJC was absolute
best on best and can you remind me who
won the MR game and then Gold? How many
times have we heard about the awesomeness
of the 2005 Canadian Team when it was best on best?


Gibson, Jones will absolutely be on Team USA while
Binnington, Hamilton, Mackinnon will be
on Canada. Other possible players for US from
that team could be Trouba, JT Miller and Trocheck.
Huberdeau could be on Canada also.

 

[KillerMillerTime]

Canada 2014 Sochi was a defence first team, they were coached specifically to keep the puck out of the net as their #1 priority, its why that team was the lowest scoring Canadian gold medal winner in our Olympic History with just 17 goals for.

On the flip side it was the most defensively dominant gold winner in modern Olympic history, surrendering just 3 goals against all tournament. I seriously think they were challenged by the coaches and management to not surrender a single goal all tournament. Everything about that team was by design so I wouldn't look too much into the 1-0 score over the US.

Canada also only beat Norway 3-1 and Latvia 2-1, which is only further proof that it was a coaching system that kept them such a low scoring team, with any other ordinary playing style Canada would have beaten Norway and Latvia by 6+ goals.

Lol, I'm sure Canada was sky high for Latvia and Norway.

 

[Big Phil]

Canada 2014 Sochi was a defence first team, they were coached specifically to keep the puck out of the net as their #1 priority, its why that team was the lowest scoring Canadian gold medal winner in our Olympic History with just 17 goals for.

On the flip side it was the most defensively dominant gold winner in modern Olympic history, surrendering just 3 goals against all tournament. I seriously think they were challenged by the coaches and management to not surrender a single goal all tournament. Everything about that team was by design so I wouldn't look too much into the 1-0 score over the US.

Canada also only beat Norway 3-1 and Latvia 2-1, which is only further proof that it was a coaching system that kept them such a low scoring team, with any other ordinary playing style Canada would have beaten Norway and Latvia by 6+ goals.

It was a puck control team as well. They always had the puck on their stick. They were always backchecking, being the first ones to pick up a rebound in their own zone. I never saw anything quite like it. I think Babcock coached the 2014 team differently than the 2010 team because the ice dimensions were bigger. He needed more of a system in 2014, and it worked. I don't think he gets enough credit for that. The team never trailed in the entire tournament. Never. The 2004 World Cup team did a similar thing, but the 2014 team was more dominant.

There was a 6-0 win against Austria, and I think the gold medal game against Sweden at 3-0 was pretty lopsided too. The other 4 wins were closer in goals at least, but not necessarily in play. Against Norway it was 3-1 but the shots were lopsided. Finland had just 15 shots on them in their 2-1 overtime loss in group play. Latvia was 2-1 but the shots were 57-16 for Canada and I honestly have never seen a game at the men's level like that where a team (Latvia) was pinned into their zone for so long and for so much of the time. Canada in any other game wins that one 9-1 but the goalie was fantastic.

Canada vs. USA was 1-0 but about the most controlled 1-0 game I have ever seen. I just remember the scoring chances Canada got that tournament. They had an 18-3 goals for/goals against all tournament but for the life of me I don't know why that team didn't score more. I remember someone like Chris Kunitz getting tons of scoring chances that he would shoot wide with. I think the big ice threw Canada off a bit because they weren't used to it as much but Sochi proved we could win on foreign soil with the big ice. It just had to be a different style of game in order to win.

 

[Refuse]

Lol what? You’re speaking as if this is recent/relevant information. The tournament you’re describing took place 24 years ago in 1996. It’s an entirely different game now with an entirely new generation.

Canada has won 5 best vs best tournaments since then (2002, 2004, 2010, 2014, 2016) US has won 0 since then.

I agree with you. I had to point that tournament out because I responded to a post saying 'It's closer than it's ever been (between Canada and USA)'. My point was that it's been close in the past but not so much in recent history.

 

[gotyournose]

The USSR dominated in like fashion in 1980 but they lost.

Yes, Canada dominated that game also, but they still
scored just once. Jack Parker said sometimes hockey
should be called goalie. A pretty accurate assessment
of the sport IMO.

There were 3 legit scoring chances
for the US, not zero. Kessel had one the first or second shift of the game coming down right wing with no one
impeding him that Price made a good positional save on.

Later in the same period, I think John Carlson literally
came down Broadway with what was probably their best SO in the game. Somehow the shot ended up in
the crowd.

In the third period the US had a PP during which
Patrick Kane feathered a pass to Zach Parise at the post
that either bounced over Parise stick or Parise didn't
finish on. They were all quality chances but I don't think
there were really any others.

You won't get an argument from me that Canada absolutely deserved the win and would be favorites
in 2022, but its not like Canada could play well and not lose.

Why I said its not Canada's to lose. Something as
simple as a bad call or an inadvertent high stick
drawing blood could be the difference.

Just look to The Hlinka summer of 2018. A US B Team
in reality outscored Canada's A team in Canada in 60 minutes of hockey. Was that US Team better? No, but games like that tell me lots of things can happen.

Actually I think their was 4 high risk chances. Paul Stastny put the puck between Price's legs that went wide after going through crease. The Kessel one, he had Weber and Keith right behind him. The Carlson one, Price gloves it without effort. The Parise one, he tipped it and price just got his right pad on it.

 

[gotyournose]

Actually I think their was 4 high risk chances. Paul Stastny put the puck between Price's legs that went wide after going through crease. The Kessel one, he had Weber and Keith right behind him. The Carlson one, Price gloves it without problem. The Parise one, he tipped it and price just got his right pad on it.

 

[gotyournose]

Senior men, yes. Senior women hell no, or are you
sexist?

Juniors, hell no again. 2013 WJC was absolute
best on best and can you remind me who
won the MR game and then Gold? How many
times have we heard about the awesomeness
of the 2005 Canadian Team when it was best on best?


Gibson, Jones will absolutely be on Team USA while
Binnington, Hamilton, Mackinnon will be
on Canada. Other possible players for US from
that team could be Trouba, JT Miller and Trocheck.
Huberdeau could be on Canada also.

The 2005 Canadian WJC team would destroy the 2013 USA WJC team. Just remember the 2013 USA WJC team lost twice

 

[teravaineSAROS]

Canada 2014 Sochi was a defence first team, they were coached specifically to keep the puck out of the net as their #1 priority, its why that team was the lowest scoring Canadian gold medal winner in our Olympic History with just 17 goals for.

On the flip side it was the most defensively dominant gold winner in modern Olympic history, surrendering just 3 goals against all tournament. I seriously think they were challenged by the coaches and management to not surrender a single goal all tournament. Everything about that team was by design so I wouldn't look too much into the 1-0 score over the US.

Canada also only beat Norway 3-1 and Latvia 2-1, which is only further proof that it was a coaching system that kept them such a low scoring team, with any other ordinary playing style Canada would have beaten Norway and Latvia by 6+ goals.

You're forgetting that a lot of international games went something like 3-1 for a couple of years before scoring went up again. It was kind of fun to see because the lesser established teams managed to steal a couple of games here and there.

 

[KillerMillerTime]

The 2005 Canadian WJC team would destroy the 2013 USA WJC team. Just remember the 2013 USA WJC team lost twice

The 2005 Canadian WJC team would destroy the 2013 USA WJC team. Just remember the 2013 USA WJC team lost twice

The "awesomeness" wasn't really the point.
The point was Canadians clearly put that
WJC on a pedestal in part because their victory
was looked at as best on best. Incidentally the
team I root for had the player who was the MVP of the tourney, so its all good by me...lol.

So I just needed to set that person straight on
his history.

Yeah the US lost twice, but they won when it counted in a year of best on best
at that level.

That Jr Tourney ranks as one of the top 4 greatest achievements in
USA Hockey history.

 

[KillerMillerTime]

Want to get the input on what people think about the difference
between US B Team and Canada B Team. Assume A Team has 20 players
and B also.

My US B Team

G Quick-Miller

D Fowler- E. Johnson
Dumoulin-McAvoy
Suter-Trouba

C Schmaltz-Trocheck-Johnson-Coyle

LW Pacioretty-Saad-Tkachuk-Parise

RW Oshie-Rust-Atkinson-DeBrincat

Obviously some people will want 2-3 players on the A Team and the A guys on the B, but I would say Lee, Nelson on 4th line A team with say Connor is not an unreasonable look.


Canada B

G - Murray Binnington

D - Rielly - Muzzin
Hamilton - Ellis
Keith - Morrissey

Hall-Seguin-Huberdeau
Kane-Couture-Marchessault
Dubois- Toews - Gallagher
Duchene-Getzlaf-Mantha

 

[JackSlater]

Canada's would be significantly better, for whatever that's worth.

 

[Dominance]

Canada’s roster there is comfortably ahead. While we’re at it, nice try on that lineup...

Canada’s “A” Team:

Marchand-Crosby-Bergeron
Huberdeau-McDavid-MacKinnon
Scheifele-Tavares-Marner
Stamkos-Point-Stone

Giordano-Pietrangelo
Rielly-Doughty
Morrissey-Hamilton

Price
Binnington

Canada’s “B” Team:

Hall-Barzal-Seguin
Konecny-Couturier-Giroux
Couture-O’Rielly-Perron/Mantha
Dubois-Horvat-Domi/Gallagher

Chabot-Letang
Girard/Burns-Makar/Ellis
Theodore/Ekblad-Parayko/Weber

Jarry
Fleury/Hart/Kuemper

Completely obliterates its counterpart.

 

[gotyournose]

The "awesomeness" wasn't really the point.
The point was Canadians clearly put that
WJC on a pedestal in part because their victory
was looked at as best on best. Incidentally the
team I root for had the player who was the MVP of the tourney, so its all good by me...lol.

So I just needed to set that person straight on
his history.

Yeah the US lost twice, but they won when it counted in a year of best on best
at that level.

That Jr Tourney ranks as one of the top 4 greatest achievements in
USA Hockey history.

It was a great team, but don't compare it to the 2005 WJC Canadian team. Also Canada could have easily won if they didn't have their choked no willpower no fightback attitude that they had

 

[gotyournose]

Want to get the input on what people think about the difference
between US B Team and Canada B Team. Assume A Team has 20 players
and B also.

My US B Team

G Quick-Miller

D Fowler- E. Johnson
Dumoulin-McAvoy
Suter-Trouba

C Schmaltz-Trocheck-Johnson-Coyle

LW Pacioretty-Saad-Tkachuk-Parise

RW Oshie-Rust-Atkinson-DeBrincat

Obviously some people will want 2-3 players on the A Team and the A guys on the B, but I would say Lee, Nelson on 4th line A team with say Connor is not an unreasonable look.


Canada B

G - Murray Binnington

D - Rielly - Muzzin
Hamilton - Ellis
Keith - Morrissey

Hall-Seguin-Huberdeau
Kane-Couture-Marchessault
Dubois- Toews - Gallagher
Duchene-Getzlaf-Mantha

Morgan Reilly is on Canada's A team. Morrissey might also given Canada's weak LHD offerings. Muzzin also.

I say victory for Canada

 

[BOS358]

Hypothetical Team USA would match up very well on paper against Hypothetical Team Canada...and once the puck drops, they would find a way to blow it. Even with NHL players, Team USA managed to finish outside the medals in the 1998, 2006, and 2014 Olympics. The 2004 pre-lockout festival and the 2016 gimmick event saw the same result. Why would it be any different now?

 

[smokingwriter]

Things have changed in recent years...certainly more on the US side in terms of the number of high-end players.

I know Team CAN could ice three or four teams, but keeping to the one, how to they matchup?

Always, hyped, always striving, always chauvinistic.

I have a better question: when will the moderators on this site get rid of Shatticus Grinch and his bigoted commentary? This guy has an anti-Canadian agenda, yet inexplicably survives the axe time and again. This site can evidently do without Killion and others, but it simply can't do without you-know-who in the eyes of some. I guess that's what happens when you're a "sponsor" and Murican. Hmmm, I wonder how many Hispanic and black kids get to play in the New Mexico Ice Hockey Association? Question worth pondering since we know the kind of people with whom we're dealing.